2.5 year old not being challenged...no academics???

[waiting2bemommy]

I had a whole post and it disappeared, so trying again but I'm sleepy now!

Ds is almost three (turns 3 in december) before starting montessori this september he already knew all his letters on sight and some of their sounds, and most of his numbers. He can spell and kind of write his name, and identify (sight read) a handful of words. I tend ot teach by phonics, but he doesn't have the patience and jsut wants to ememorize everything. I just follow his lead without really pushing him to "learn" using a certain "method" (phonics, sight words, whatever.) At the same time he has a real aptitude for language and a strong itnerest in "reading it mySELF" right now. I dobn't want to waste that.

His school apparently is not letting him do any lessons related to lettrs or numbers. I asked him and he said that those lessons were "pretty tricky". The whole first week of school I only heard about one lesson the "firetruck" lesson (where they match pictures of rescue vehicles). About two weeks ago he came home excited because he ahd gotten 2 "brand new" lessons--"squeezing" and "stacking." Today he said something about a "spider lesson", where he takes them out of a hammer and puts them in the tray. not quite sure about that one. :headscratch

That, along with group time, snack, lunch and recess is all he does.

He already knows how to do those things! why isn't he progressing to the more academic stuff? It isn't that I'm trying to push him into being some sort of prodigy, I just dont want him to lose the skills he's already mastered. Since he started school I haven't dome a lot with him at home, feeling like his time away from school shuld be down time. But the other day we were reading a story and he was mixing up the letters when he never used to do that! He should be improving or at least maintaining, NOt regressing.....right?

[stik]

I think it's important to remember that he's 2.5.

I don't know what's up with his school limiting the materials and lessons that children have access to. I'm not completely familiar with Montessori. I think it would make sense to give them a call and ask. But I did notice when I was checking out preschools that most of the Montessori schools in my area introduced math materials around age 4, and were mainly concerned with social and motor skills at younger ages.

Typically, 2.5-year-olds know how to do a lot of things, but not necessarily how to function independently and manage interaction with others at the same time. An intensely academic curriculum is generally not beneficial at this age. In any case, trying to teach reading to a group of under-threes is unlikely to be a productive enterprise, as most of them aren't developmentally ready. I can understand why most pre-schools focus on pre-literacy skills like dividing words into syllables and pretend play.

FWIW, my dd could write her name at 2, and knew all her letters and their sounds before 3. But she couldn't string the sounds together to make words, and she didn't learn to read until she was almost 6. Now that she's 9, she reads well and enjoys reading. A lot of research shows that pushing reading skills in very young children can damage their intrinsic motivation to read. I think it makes sense to let a 2yo set his own pace with reading skills.

[jenfl]

At 3, Montessori is going to focus on Practical Life and Sensorial. These aren't traditionally "academic", but they have important pre-academic aspects. For instance, a lot of the activities strengthen the 3-finger grip the kids will need for writing, so that it isn't tiring and discouraging for them when they get started.

If you're concerned or don't understand what he's going during the day, I'd ask the teacher if she can lay things out (Montessori work can sound odd because it's so different from what we're used to). Some schools allow observations, you might ask about that.

[AllyRae]

Yeah to Jen's post. You're 6 weeks into school with a *2* year old--a TODDLER. Most toddlers are not in Children's House, so right off the bat, he's in a class that's above his age range (Children's House is typically 3-6 years old). There is a progression in Montessori that must be followed in order to truly master the skills. Your little one might be really good at doing memorization, but Montessori isn't about memorization, but about truly learning things. The stacking and squeezing and other work you described are prepwork for writing and reading. He needs to learn how to use a pencil correctly and have the hand strength to write, hence those early practical life and sensorial work. Being able to discriminate and sort are things that he has to do before he can read.

Add to it, the first 6 or so weeks of a Montessori school are low academics for everyone, in order to get them into the routine. Your son has to learn how to do all of the work that comes early in the progression in order to avoid having issues later. If they let him jump straight into writing, you'd see that he'd have to go backwards to learn all of the pre-steps. I mean, a lot of children that age can copy letters or memorize letters, but to really truly *learn* the concept, they need to learn the steps before it.

And FWIW, I don't think that's *all* your son is doing. Children are notorious for forgetting most of their day. : There is likely a 2 1/2 hour-3 hour work cycle where your son is getting lessons and working independently, and at under 3, he's likely only spending a couple minutes on each work. Maybe ask to observe the classroom for a work cycle so that you're getting a feel for what is actually going on. Heck, my son is almost 7, and he still can't remember most of what happens in his day--if I went by his recall of the day, all he'd have done at school is recess and lunch. :

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by AllyRae

Yeah to Jen's post. You're 6 weeks into school with a *2* year old--a TODDLER. Most toddlers are not in Children's House, so right off the bat, he's in a class that's above his age range (Children's House is typically 3-6 years old). There is a progression in Montessori that must be followed in order to truly master the skills. Your little one might be really good at doing memorization, but Montessori isn't about memorization, but about truly learning things. The stacking and squeezing and other work you described are prepwork for writing and reading. He needs to learn how to use a pencil correctly and have the hand strength to write, hence those early practical life and sensorial work. Being able to discriminate and sort are things that he has to do before he can read.

Add to it, the first 6 or so weeks of a Montessori school are low academics for everyone, in order to get them into the routine. Your son has to learn how to do all of the work that comes early in the progression in order to avoid having issues later. If they let him jump straight into writing, you'd see that he'd have to go backwards to learn all of the pre-steps. I mean, a lot of children that age can copy letters or memorize letters, but to really truly *learn* the concept, they need to learn the steps before it.

And FWIW, I don't think that's *all* your son is doing. Children are notorious for forgetting most of their day. : There is likely a 2 1/2 hour-3 hour work cycle where your son is getting lessons and working independently, and at under 3, he's likely only spending a couple minutes on each work. Maybe ask to observe the classroom for a work cycle so that you're getting a feel for what is actually going on. Heck, my son is almost 7, and he still can't remember most of what happens in his day--if I went by his recall of the day, all he'd have done at school is recess and lunch. :

Yes to all this, especially the self-reporting. According to my son most days he eats snack and that's about it.

There's so much more to learn than letters and reading, which is actually why we went with Montessori - all the concrete manipulable lessons that they do really pay off in a deeper understanding of where the concepts come from in the end.

That said, it's definitely worth talking about your concerns with your school. If you perceive that he's at a sensitive period for reading they will likely respect and support that (if the same is true at school...sometimes with my son he doesn't want to do what he's doing at home at school and vice versa).

[waiting2bemommy]

yes, my intent is not to push him into something that he is not developmentaly ready for, bt I disagree that children can't learn the concept and meaning of reading and writing before a certain age. I was reasding before I was 3. I remeber reading my children's encyclopedia in the bathroom at 3 yrs old and being fascinated by the stories (which indicates comprehension) was I "gifted" or whatever? maybe. but I still think ds has the ability to learn to read based on what I have seen. he has been doing squuezing, stacking and pouring activities with me for over a year....i sent him to school to guve him exposure to those materials and lessons that I can't do with him at home.

Another question: they do have a 8-11 am work cycle....if he is only doing each activity for 2 or 3 minutes and he has only been presented with 4 lessons, then.....?????

what is the typical progression of lessons?

[eepster]

When DS started at his school at 2 1/2, he was also on the cusp of reading. In fact he started reading around December of that year. What do you think he did in school?

DS put together the train puzzle, which was much simpler than many he had been doing at home for a while. DS spent a lot of time spooning water from one bowl to another. Etc. Most importantly, he learned quite a few manners and made many friends. he also learned to be OK with leaving me for short periods and to talk to people out side the family.

DS had zero interest in the basic phonics works that were available for him to do. Also though, he did not want to do any reading lesson which were at his level that his teachers brought in for him after they found out he could read basic words.

Still at 4 1/2, he does much of his reading and math at home with me. he only does a little of it at school. I think part of it is he doesn't want to feel different from the other 4 1/2 yo (he was willing to do a lot more academics in the 3-6 yo class than he was when he was in the 2 yo class.) I think an even bigger part of it is, he gets as much of that as he wants at home, but I don't have all those sensory activities at home though. I certainly don't have other kids his age that he can sit on a rug with and dig through a bowl full of beans to find treasures with at home.

What is important to me is that DS chooses when he wants to do academics at school and he is never forced to sit through academics that are inappropriate for him (nobody ever insisted that he do the baskets full of thing that start with the letter "M" for instance.)


At 2 1/2 yo (and throughout the preschool years,) it is very common to regress in certain areas as others become more focused on. For example, DS was very focused on math this summer and did very little reading at all. This fall, he has started reading much more fluently again, but suddenly has no interest in doing more difficult math problems. This is another great thing about Montessori. The method recognizes that students sometimes are just ready to focus on a certain subject and is flexible to let them follow that.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy

yes, my intent is not to push him into something that he is not developmentaly ready for, bt I disagree that children can't learn the concept and meaning of reading and writing before a certain age. I was reasding before I was 3. I remeber reading my children's encyclopedia in the bathroom at 3 yrs old and being fascinated by the stories (which indicates comprehension) was I "gifted" or whatever? maybe. but I still think ds has the ability to learn to read based on what I have seen. he has been doing squuezing, stacking and pouring activities with me for over a year....i sent him to school to guve him exposure to those materials and lessons that I can't do with him at home.

Another question: they do have a 8-11 am work cycle....if he is only doing each activity for 2 or 3 minutes and he has only been presented with 4 lessons, then.....?????

what is the typical progression of lessons?

I read super early too - the thing was though, no one taught me a thing. So for me it was natural, and I don't think there was any or much backsliding. If your son's getting things mixed up, unless he's being taught them wrong at Montessori (which I guess could be) then my guess is his own internal timetable actually isn't geared towards reading right now.

I really think you need to talk to your school for their perspective. They can also show you some of the works and that kind of thing.

What I like about Montessori is that it isn't a rush - "must get to the letter Q by Feb 24" - and yet is sensitive to each child's own small but significant leaps. When my son started he did the same activities over and over because that was comforting. Then he sailed through a bunch of math-oriented ones like crazy. He ignored letters for over a year. It's going fine now.

[Polliwog]

Most high quality early childhood programs are play, or activity, based. I've been in hundreds of early childhood classrooms as part of my work and I would take either a great preschool or Montessori classroom over an "academic" one almost any day of the week. I detest "Letter of the Week" so they're not doing that is a good thing IMO. And my three-year-old tells me basically nothing about what goes on in her Pre-K class although I know she has a very busy day.

[carmel23]

His guide is probably observing, waiting for when he shows concentration to complete the sandpaper letters.

Montessori usually teaches the letter *sounds* first, so knowing the letter names doesn't really mean much, yk?

My dd is 3.5 and just had a lesson on sandpaper letters (she does read small words, but is kind of reluctant to read, now--she is very apprehensive about it).

Her guide wasn't sure if she would really participate and catch onto the lesson, because a lot of kids just aren't interested in letters--they would rather be doing something else.

My DD *loved* it, but a lot of that was because her guide really observed her, and knew it was the right time to try it.

So talk to the guide, but really, some children are not interested in it, and would rather do other things. hth

[SomedayMom]

I think you need to step back and remember that he's not even 3 yet. If you are worrying about his reading skills at this age you ARE pushing things too far. This is the age to let things come naturally. Montessori is not about kids doing things at specific ages, but doing things when they are ready and interested on their own. My just turned 3 year old started preschool this year too. He already knew all of his letter sounds and he loves letters, and I let his teachers know that so he could be introduced to those works, but if he doesn't want to choose them, it's NOT a big deal. He's 3 for goodness sakes. Might he be capable of reading soon? Sure. But there is no long term benefit to reading this early, so why push it? He'll do it when he wants to. All this other work he's doing is important. Montessori really emphasizes the development of the WHOLE child. Not just their academics, not just their reading skills or math skills, but their WHOLE SELF. Everything is equally important.

I also wouldn't count on an accurate account of what he's doing at school from HIM. Even my pretty advanced kindergartener comes home telling me that he played outside and doesn't remember what he worked on. I talk with his teachers about what he has been doing from time to time.

I would also ditto that the first 6-8 weeks tend to be less challenging because it is a time of normalization. The students need to get used to the school, the guides need to get to know the students, the students need to get to know each other. It is not indicative of the function of the remainder of the year.

If you have concerns that he's actually bored or that his teachers are ignoring his interests then for sure bring that up. But does he seem bored or unchallenged? How does HE feel about school? That's more important right now.

[sapphire_chan]

If a student was only spending 2-3 minutes on a work, I'd hope the guides would get right on figuring out why that work wasn't engaging. Especially after 6 weeks in a normalized class. My 2 year old with no exposure to a Montessori classroom and she can and does stick with things that interest her for anywhere from 15 minutes to over an hour.

The only way she'd change from one thing to another as quickly as 2-3 minutes would be if she were REALLY tired or if the next activity was SUPER interesting and involved playing with other kids.

[elsie123]

Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy

Another question: they do have a 8-11 am work cycle....if he is only doing each activity for 2 or 3 minutes and he has only been presented with 4 lessons, then.....?????

Where do you gather the 2-3 minute time frame from? It takes 5-10 minutes to even give a lesson sometimes, and then the child repeats it as many times as they like. Students in my classroom, even the kids who are under 3, can spend 30-40 minutes exploring one lesson, and sometimes even longer

I would definitely take your concerns to the teacher however. No need to just sit and worry when you can get more information! We have a meeting with every new parent in November and tell them which lessons their child has been shown to date. You could ask for something like that.

My son is 11 and still says he only eats lunch and plays outside

[AllyRae]

That 2-3 minute timeframe was from me...generally, if a kid is truly bored and unchallenged in Montessori, they tend to go from one thing to another and only stick with something for a couple of minutes. She mentioned that her kid was bored and unchallenged, so I (perhaps wrongly) assumed he was flipping from activity from activity.

However, I will say that it is still rare for an under 3 to regularly spend 30-60 minutes on one lesson. I would say 15-20 minutes is on the upper range of normal for that age range unless they are really really interested in something...the 30-60 range is far more normal for kids at the end of that 3 year cycle. A lot of the first year or two is learning to build up that concentration so that by the end of the 3 year cycle, they are ready to move on to lower elementary where the works can take several days. But a 2 1/2 year old in the first 6 weeks of the 3 year cycle? I really don't think 30-60 minutes is the norm, especially if they are "bored and unchallenged". It is possible, obviously, but I don't think that's going to be an every day, every lesson sort of thing.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by AllyRae

That 2-3 minute timeframe was from me...generally, if a kid is truly bored and unchallenged in Montessori, they tend to go from one thing to another and only stick with something for a couple of minutes. She mentioned that her kid was bored and unchallenged, so I (perhaps wrongly) assumed he was flipping from activity from activity.

Oh, I agree, a bored kid would be jumping back and forth all over the place. All the more reason to talk to the guide. Because that's not how kids should be with works that are right for them.

A kid who has 4 works and is spending 3 hours going from one to the other to the next to the last and back again, is a kid where there needs to be major work.

Or the guide needs to just tell mama what the kiddo is actually doing and ease the worry.

[BCFD]

Originally Posted by SomedayMom

If you have concerns that he's actually bored or that his teachers are ignoring his interests then for sure bring that up. But does he seem bored or unchallenged? How does HE feel about school? That's more important right now.

Thank you for this quote!! I need to be reminded of this from time to time.

I agree with a lot of the PP's. I have 3 kids in Montessori school right now (1st grade and kindy students in a Montessori charter school and my almost 4 year old in a truly amazing private preschool ). When my youngest DD started school she was 2.5 and while they had jobs such as the pink tower, brown stairs, spindle box, sandpaper letters, metal insets, and practical life jobs, they didn't have the moveable alphabet and stamp game. When she was 3 they moved her to CH and then she became exposed to those jobs by observing her peers, but was no where ready to tackle those jobs. She knows a lot of her letter sounds (even with a speech delay), but I am so thankful for Montessori and letting her gently ease into jobs that give her a good foundation. On that note, she will be 4 at the end of Dec. and there is a 2.5 year old in class with her now that is so far advanced it's insane! He speaks clearly while DD struggles to get her point across. He colors pictures inside the lines while DD is still just scribbling across the page. What I am concerned about is if DD is learning and happy. That's all that matters. I'm happy for the little boy in her class, but I'm also happy to pick DD up from school and see her covered in dirt! I know that she had a great time in the hands of incredibly capable Montessori teachers!

Of course, with my oldest child I'm freaking out because they started her on words like "cat", "sat", and "mat" at the beginning of 1st grade when she learned those when she was 3.5 in CH and then repeated them last year in kindergarten!

But the quote above is truly what's important. It's about how your child feels about school, not what a 2.5 year old *should* be doing right now. Definitely schedule and observation time with the teachers or volunteer to spend some time in the classroom over a week or two. You will learn a lot from that!

[waiting2bemommy]

Thanks for all the replies....my internet wasn't working so I'm just now reading them.

I did have a chance to ask his teacher one day about the letters and his work in general and while he still swears there are "no ABC's at school" she says that he has had the chance to do them and he usually does 4 or 5 letters before he is ready to move on, and they of course respect that. I am very happy to hear that because I want him to continue to learn, but at his pace. As long as he is being given the opportunity to work with the letters, that is all I care about. Whether or not he chooses to focus on that right now is up to him and fine with me either way.

They said they are having issues with his behavior, and it is becoming an ongoing thing. I can tell that he is one of the most boisterous kids in the room, if not the most, and when I looked at a class picture from last week, all the other kids were smiling nicely while ds had his hands up in the air somewhere and was giving a cockeyed "funny face". sigh. his teachers seem patient and understanding, and it helps that he is friendly and sociable and cute, but he is TOO sociable! I guess he si distracting the other kids. However he loves school and asks to go even on his off days, so obviously it is a positive experience for him and that is what counts.

[sachasmom]

Yeah, seconding posters who said don't worry about the letters too much. Also don't worry about your son not remembering doing anything. I swear it's a BOY THING. My 3 yr old son only has two things to say when I ask him what he did or who he played with at school: "Nothing" and "Nobody"! But then when I pick him up at afterschool and he's in the right mood he'll drag me into the classroom to show me all the works he's learned. So I know he's doing lots of stuff. But good luck getting him to talk about it without pulling fingernails!

The emphasis on practical life works is totally normal. First year in the 3-6 Montessori classrooms is a lot of practical life skills. As others have said, the philosophy is that these skills all build up to making reading, writing, and math easier. This is key to remember, because even if your son is precocious in reading, that doesn't mean the extra time won't ease his transition into formal mathematics. Which can be a real misery for many kids who coast through reading. 

Also, I know in our parent teacher talks the teachers discussed the Montessori approach to teaching reading, and emphasized strongly that they don't push it and try to let students come to the "aha! moment of realizing they've figured it out without any public-school-style pushing and formal learning. We are in a highly overeducated town where most Montessori parents are Ivy League professors, so as you can imagine many kids are very precocious. I know I've talked with one parent -- an Italian mom, actually, who knows Montessori from Italy as well as here and is very happy with it -- and one of the things she was most thankful about was that the teachers had really pushed her daughter to do practical life works instead of letting her spend all her time doing math works, which she wanted to do (big surprise!) because both dad and mom are mathematicians and that's all she ever hears about at home. So again, that's a kid who's clearly ready to do advanced mathematics modules - but her parents like Montessori precisely because it's pushing her to do things that aren't in her comfort zone and don't come naturally.

What you mention about your son cutting up in class an being "too social" is really important too. One of the real strong suits of Montessori is that they lay the basic foundation for overall learning without the kind of harsh "stay in your desk" discipline of public schools. I've seen it really work with the older kids in my son's school. The result is very self-directed kids who accomplish a lot because they truly know how to organize their own time without an adult standing over them and micromanaging. It sounds like your son's teachers are doing exactly the right thing for this stage in your son's education: focusing on getting him to self-motivate and self-calm so that he can maintain concentration in the classroom. That will stand him in much better stead in the long run than learning his letters a little faster. As someone pointed out above, there is really not much correlation between how early kids learn to read and how well they do academically in the long run. There's a much better correlation with focus, self-control, and self-motivation -- and those things are what the first year of Montessori is all about.

Anyway, I know that rambled a lot. My son's off school today so I'm typing with a toddler climbing on me and exploring all the wonders of mom's office (eek!) But basically, it sounds like your kid is getting a classic Montessori experience. It may seem "non-academic" compared to public school, and sometimes it's worrying to wonder what exactly they're doing all day. But the Montessori approach has really proven itself over the course of many years in many schools. Obviously you need to be aware of what's happening in the classroom and make sure the dynamic is positive. But if your teachers are licensed, experienced Montessori teachers I don't think you have to worry about their stunting his learning or not "letting" him do things he's ready for. That would be really atypical. And if he's like most kids in that system he'll put it together at his own pace and enjoy the experience.