Opinion question about my niece

[Bri'sgirl]

Do you think that a (almost) 3 years old is too old to be throwing a temper tantrum before bed every night? My niece, who will be 3 the first week of November, has cried, and sometimes thrown up, every night since she was a little baby. When I've watched her as a baby, I could always get her to go to sleep without crying so hard she would throw up, but my SIL has never been able to. Now, she is almost 3 and I feel has malipulated my SIL to the point where she needs to lie down with her every night, in order to go to sleep.

I have 3 kids of my own, ages 4, 6 & 8, and have never had this problem. Maybe I expected too much from them at an early age, but they were all able to be put down awake by the age of 6 months, and fall asleep on their own. There were nights that this didn't work perfect, but for the most part, they were fine. Certainly by this age, they were all going to sleep fine on their own...even at other people's houses.

What do you think? Is this behavior fine or should SIL put an end to it? If so, how? At this point, niecy has SIL wrapped around her little finger and will be harder to change.

[MusicianDad]

Every child is different. If your niece needs mom next to her to fall asleep, that is not a horrible thing. She's not even three, it's perfectly ok for her to need mom close to her. If she's crying because mom tries to put her down without laying down with her, than why keep doing that? If she's crying regardless of mom lying down next to her than maybe she needs to get to bed earlier.

[alegna]

It is perfectly normal to need to be parented to sleep well into childhood.

-Angela

[Delicateflower]

I'm sure your SIL will appreciate you sharing parenting tips with her. I know I love it when people tell me how to get my children to sleep.

Translation: Not your business to have an opinion on. If your SIL wants advice, then point her here and we'll offer her ideas on what has worked for us, keeping in mind that every family is different and what worked for us may not work for them.

[Bri'sgirl]

MusicianDad, I think that a large part of it is that she goes to bed way too late and definitely needs an earlier bed time. Her schedule has been very erratic, and I'm sure she would benefit from a dependable routine.

Delicateflower, I only ask posed the question, because SIL has previously asked me for advice, but has not taken it. If someone asks me for my opinion, then it is my business to have one. SIL does not go online, so would have no idea of how to ask you all questions.

[TiredX2]

This is just my opinion, but if my very young child was having a tantrum every night to the point they threw up so I would cuddel with them my concern wouldnt be why they were doing that but WHY the parent made them go through that to get their needs met. I don't know if my children would have tantrumed and thrown up at three to get cuddles to sleep because I just accepted that was a need they had. Does she scream and throw up even when a parent is with her?

Of course, I can't imagine having a 6 month old who didn't want to nurse and cuddle to sleep either

[~savah~]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

This is just my opinion, but if my very young child was having a tantrum every night to the point they threw up so I would cuddel with them my concern wouldnt be why they were doing that but WHY the parent made them go through that to get their needs met. I don't know if my children would have tantrumed and thrown up at three to get cuddles to sleep because I just accepted that was a need they had. Does she scream and throw up even when a parent is with her?

Of course, I can't imagine having a 6 month old who didn't want to nurse and cuddle to sleep either

My daughter is only a month younger than your niece and has never been put to bed by herself. So I don't think that a child at that age needing snuggles togo to sleep by herself is out of the ordinary. Also, children act very differently when their parents aren't around so the fact that your niece doesn't cry when you put her to bed doesn't surprise me either.

[Bri'sgirl]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

Does she scream and throw up even when a parent is with her?

Yes, she still screams and throws tantrums even with her mom.

Originally Posted by TiredX2

Of course, I can't imagine having a 6 month old who didn't want to nurse and cuddle to sleep either

When my kids were 6 months old, I would nurse them and cuddle them, and then lay them in bed when they were still barely awake, and very sleepy. BUT, they were still awake and were able to fall asleep on their own. I also nursed in the middle of the night, or whenever they wanted. I, too, can't imagine having a 6 month old who didn't want to nurse and cuddle.

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by Bri'sgirl

Yes, she still screams and throws tantrums even with her mom.

I guess I am just confused what is going on. You said she didn't do it with you, but does with her mom--- so what is the tantruming over? Originally it sounded like she wanted someone to be with her, but she is screaming even if someone goes to bed with her? So is she in pain? Scared? Not wanting to go to bed?

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by Bri'sgirl

When my kids were 6 months old, I would nurse them and cuddle them, and then lay them in bed when they were still barely awake, and very sleepy. BUT, they were still awake and were able to fall asleep on their own. I also nursed in the middle of the night, or whenever they wanted. I, too, can't imagine having a 6 month old who didn't want to nurse and cuddle.

I said "nurse and cuddle TO sleep." DD nursed to sleep until she was 3.5, DS until longer than that. That is what I meant I couldn't imagine--- a baby actually going to sleep on their own at a fairly young age But my children were really not textbook sleepers in any way.

[straighthaircurly]

The first step is to have a predictable routine. Not only what time the routine starts but have rituals that the child can count on. For us at that age it was pajamas, brush teeth, read 3 books that DS got to pick, snuggle in bed (he could pick getting a back rub or having me "push" him into bed which involves using the heels of my hands to hold steady downward pressure for 10 seconds on different parts of his body...head, shoulders, hips, legs, feet, arms, hands). Plenty of kids still need a parent to stay next to them while they fall asleep. The tantrum even when a parent is present is tough for me to understand without having more knowledge of the exact dynamics at bedtime. If the child is not sure how the bed time routine will be carried out each night then that could easily lead her to start using tantrums to force the situation. But she could also be a child who resists sleep and gets herself worked up as the time approaches.

Frankly, the best advice you can give her is to buy her Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's book "Sleepless in America". http://www.parentchildhelp.com/Sleep...5/Default.aspx She also wrote one on power struggles that I haven't read yet. But sstart with the book about sleep.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Bri'sgirl

What do you think? Is this behavior fine or should SIL put an end to it? If so, how? At this point, niecy has SIL wrapped around her little finger and will be harder to change.

Has your SIL asked you what to do?

I think that telling other people how to raise their kids is usually a bad idea. It just annoys them.

[Tigerchild]

Originally Posted by Bri'sgirl

Delicateflower, I only ask posed the question, because SIL has previously asked me for advice, but has not taken it. If someone asks me for my opinion, then it is my business to have one.

I suppose, but you'll probably save yourself some irritation if you take the hint (she doesn't take your advice).

No, it's not too old. IMO it's actually pretty much not "too old" for a three year old to have a tantrum about *anything*. And I would hestiate to take full credit for your children not having sleep issues or annoying sleep preferences, nor would I blame the parents for a child who has them. Certainly, environment can factor in, but so does personality.

You're pretty lucky if none of your kids has thrown tantrums because they didn't want to go to sleep or wanted to keep you nearby, and/or they all were great independant sleepers by 6 months.

[ChetMC]

It's Okay

Our second DD has a very, very difficult time unwinding to fall asleep. When she was three we had to take fairly extreme measures to not have a tantrum at bedtime every night. Even now, at 5, she is way harder to get to bed than our 2.5 year old.

For a long time, shortly before she turned three, we went for a walk every evening and she fell asleep in the stroller under a heavy blanket that blocked out most of the light. Eventually, this transitioned to my reading or singing to her and her sister in bed until she fell asleep (older sister would fall asleep on her own after I was done). I'm sure it looked like a trainwreck of a bedtime routine to anybody who had never been there, but it was what we had to do.

[treeoflife3]

I was throwing tantrums about going to bed well into my 7th year I just hated going to bed because I knew I was missing things. I still avoid going to sleep. I'm posting this at almost 2:30 in the morning. The only reason I stopped throwing tantrums was because I figured out ways to stay up later by listening to the radio in bed or reading books sneakily next to my night light.

Your kids sleep honestly probably has nothing to do with your parenting. My kid used to go down with only a soothie. She refused to be nursed to sleep. Nope, pop the soothie in and rush out of the room. One day she said JUST KIDDING! and now we are nursing to sleep every single night at 19 months. Nothing to do with me. It's all her. Moreover, my child is different with me than she is with anyone else. Everyone else can put her to sleep without breastmilk. My grandma can actually rock her to sleep (I can count on one hand how many times my child has fallen asleep on me without the boob.) Right now she is refusing to eat for me (will go to bed with her stomach growling) but when my grandma visited, she ate more for breakfast while I got to sleep in than she had in the three days before her arrival, no joke. How someone else's child is with you is also probably not a sign of your abilities or your SIL's lackthereof. My grandma does nothing different than I do... she just isn't MOM. She is fun and different and doesn't have the boobs and doesn't make and enforce the rules 24/7.

If your SIL doesn't take your advice and wants to lay down to sleep with her child, then let her do that. It is HER child and ultimately, advice isn't required to be taken. That is teh beauty of advice; if you don't like it you ignore it.

[happysmileylady]

My oldest was a holy terror to get to sleep. She was not truley STTN until she was in kindergarten. The night she was born, she was awake from birth, at 4pm, until 7AM the next morning, I am not even lying. The nurses at the hospital said they had never seen anything like it. There was one night when she was 8 months old, she woke up at 7pm from a late nap, at 5:30am I was driving around town with her in the back seat still screaming, because she hadn't been to sleep yet. She was 4 when I met my husband, I was STILL laying down with her to get her to sleep...and that took FOUR hours. And while she was not still screaming before bed each night, a tantrum was not uncommon. She just HATED sleep. Now, once she was in school, somehow, the problems stopped. It was almost like school work actually worked her brain enough for it to want the sleep. Now, at 14, she goes to bed when she's tired and sleeps in like every other teen.

Now, my 2 year old...never had a problem getting her to sleep at night. She was STTN on her own at 4 wks. Couldn't get her to nap for 6 months, but at night, a breeze. We have never experienced a tantrum at bed time, and we don't even have much of a routine!

And....it's 4am, and my one month old is still asleep, after having gone down at 10pm. I of course am sick and therefore awake and can't enjoy my good fortune, but there you go.

The point is that every child is different about sleep. And that just because the child is throwing a fit, takes forever to get to sleep, whatever, that does not mean that the parent has done anything wrong. Also, just because a child sleeps well for someone else doesn't mean that person has done anything better. Many children behave differently for someone not the parent, just because that person is not the parent.

[AllisonR]

I think this varies TREMENDOUSLY from child to child. DS was in his own room by 2 yo. This doesn't mean all kids are, or even should be, in their own bed. DD came along and had me eat a bunch of humble pie, being in our bed until over 3 and then sleeping with DS. I can't imagine her having any desire to sleep alone anytime soon. Then again, DH and I switch turns, and we rather enjoy reading them bedtime stories, cuddling.... sometimes I even fall asleep with them. No, it's not every single night always the number one most exciting thing to do, but it is way more enjoyable than the alternate of making all the lunches for the next day, or doing bills....

Not enough information, but a guess based on what has been posted:
Perhaps her mom should do the opposite - put her down to bed with her, with lots of warmth, cuddles, bedtime stories, and stay there way past when her DD is asleep. Doing this consistently, over a long time (like maybe a year or two), then her DD may be "filled up" with the love and confidence knowing her mom is there when she does need her. Then, being confident, she will be capable of falling asleep on her own. This is all just a guess, based on the post, I could be totally wrong about the mothers bedtime habits, since this is really 3rd party info.

However, even if this is correct, like so many PPs said, it really isn't any of your business, so you should not even suggest it to her. Unless she very specifically says she wants advice, wants your opinion, wants tips you have.... at that point, and only then, could you share. And even if she asked for it, and even if you did, it doesn't mean she then must follow your suggestions, even if she asked.