at the end of my rope w/ pee pee accidents (age 4)

[coop_mom]

My son, age 4, has reverted to having fairly regular pee pee accidents. He is having accidents at school a few days a week, today was one accident at school and another on the way home from school.

The teachers try hard to stay on top of this, asking him regularly if he needs to go, or if he has gone (after he's been on the potty), but DS does not tell the truth. He will often say he does not have to go potty, then have an accident shortly afterwards.

My goal today after school was to talk this out with him, but I cannot get a straight answer out of him. I get the whole range of he's distracted, he doesn't want to go on the potty, he doesn't feel the pee pee coming...

I'm at a loss. We do not push him to do things he's not ready for (he doesn't poop on the potty yet, and I'm OK with that), but I feel like we're going backwards.

any advice? I'm just distressed today

--kristin
mom to Simon, age 4

[SpottedFoxx]

If it's an all of a sudden thing.....

Has their been any changes to his environment (death, illness, move, etc)? That could explain it.

If not, I'd speak with the pediatrician. There could be a biological reason (bladder infection) for the sudden change.

[Kuba'sMama]

it's hard to give advice without knowing the child more, but this is what i would do (and don't get offended if it's not what you would do, just my two cents).
I expected my children to be potty trained by that age. Not "ready" but just doing it, no ifs, buts and ands. Other than medical concerns (stomach flu, or urinery inffections, etc) or anxiety from starting school of course (i'm not a troll).
If you think it's not a medical or psychological issue, than I would be firmer with my expectations with him; "you are a big boy, big boys go potty on the toilet, not in their pants. If you will continue going in your pants you will have to wear pull-ups to school, because the teacher does not need to be cleaning up your mess".
I hope it doesn't sound too harsh, I am really quite a gentle person (really)

[provocativa]

what is his diet like? pee accidents can be a sign of magnesium deficiency, and food chemical sensitivity or food allergy. i have girls, so i had them sit on the potty for awhile to check for secret pee pee. crooked answeres from a 4 year old are standard procedure, though.

[pregnant@40]

Dr. Spock:

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,5712,00.html

He emphasizes on his website that even preschool kids already feel shame about this behavior, though if it may not be apparent. Tread lightly on this issue.

[coop_mom]

thanks for your feedback, it helps just to know that other people sympathize

one problem is that the source could be many things or just nothing...he has started a new school this year, I had brain surgery in August (although it went very smoothly, still scary for all), I have other health issues too (diagnosed w/ lupus in 2007). So I'm sure he has SOOO much to deal with. It appears that he is dealing with this stuff OK, but maybe not. Or it could be a medical issue with him...

I've been resisting going to the doc (the last time we went, the doc pretty much said he will do the potty thing when he's ready, though we were talking about poop, not pee, at the time), but I should probably rule out an infection.

If you think it's not a medical or psychological issue, than I would be firmer with my expectations with him; "you are a big boy, big boys go potty on the toilet, not in their pants. If you will continue going in your pants you will have to wear pull-ups to school, because the teacher does not need to be cleaning up your mess".
I hope it doesn't sound too harsh, I am really quite a gentle person (really)

this is how we've been talking today...I've avoided going this route for a while, but as I said, I'm at the end of my rope! I'm trying not to make him feel bad (thanks for the Dr. Spock article pregnant@40, that was helpful), but sometimes it just gets so hard!

sigh, thanks again for your thoughts, I'll talk this over with DH tonight and hopefully we can come up with a plan

--k

[Ruthla]

Between the stress of your surgury and a new school, it's really no surprise that he regressed with toileting. That's actually very common.

I would put him into pull-ups, and explain to him that he's not quite ready for underwear yet, and he can go back to wearing underwear when he's ready to use the toilet consistently. I think that will take the stress off everybody- you won't be cleaning up pee several times a day, and he won't feel bad about himself for wetting himself, and everybody can focus on postive things, not the negatives.

[Minxie]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Between the stress of your surgury and a new school, it's really no surprise that he regressed with toileting. That's actually very common.

Also be aware that growth spurts can bring on a bit of regression as the body adjusts. Sometimes it's hard to handle everything at once!

Were it me, and it has been, I would handle it matter-of-factly. You don't want to make him feel ashamed about it; explain it in terms of what his body is doing and don't make him feel like he is a baby. That's big at this age as they are VERY sensitive to the baby stuff. Just be VERY matter-of-fact and it will right itself soon enough.

[mizzoh]

my ds would go through phases like that - especially if he was stressed out about something ( and it sounds like your guy has been through some tough things lately). it's hard not to get super frustrated but i agree with PP - just be very matter-of-fact about it. my conversations with ds would usually go something like this:

ds: I peed in my pants!
me: ok, let's get your wet clothes off and dry clothes on

[2xand2y]

Yes, it happens- a lot. For my kids the best thing I could do was stay calm and make THEM deal with it. Once they've been potty trained, I no longer clean the messes. I figure it was their choice and these are the natural consequences. I would grab my supplies (plastic grocery bag, wash cloth, and a towel) and we would head to the bathroom. I would just stand there and calmly direct the child what to do. Take off your wet clothes. Put your wet clothes in the bag (I would hold the bag open.). Wipe yourself off. Put the wash cloth in the bag. Go dry up the puddle. Put the towel in the bag. Go get dry clothe and put them on.

This got old for them really fast. If it hadn't I would have gone the pull-up route.

[Learning_Mum]

DS1, who is 5yo, will still sometimes have accidents. Mainly when he's been holding it too long and can't get to the toilet in time.

If he's going to school, I don't know that I'd put him in nappies because that seems like something the other kids might tease him about.

I would maybe suggest taking him to the toilet regularly and making him sit and at least TRY to go. Doesn't matter if he does or not but hopefully you'll be able to catch the pee before he has an accident.

DS1 was 3.5yo before he started using the toilet. Honestly, in the end I bribed him with a lolly every time he tried to go to the toilet. We went to the toilet ALOT in the first little while but I slowly started weaning off the lollies and he continued using the toilet. I can't remember how...... maybe I only started give him a lolly when he actually peed in the toilet? I think I used M&M's.

ETA: I'm pretty sure that I started bribing DS1 because I knew that he was physically and developmentally ready to use the toilet, he was just choosing not to so I gave him an added incentive.

[coop_mom]

thanks for talking me down, mamas, I'm usually able to handle this stuff better!

I'm feeling better about stuff today, and hoping that today will be a better day. If the accidents keep happening I may take him to the ped, just to rule out any medical reasons (we ended up w/ 3 accidents yesterday, one a big one while sitting on the couch next to me )

But I'm back to being reasonable again, hopefully things will work out soon!

--k

[pregnant@40]

New school, brain surgery, and lupus? WOW, that's a lot to deal w/ for all of you in the family. I imagine your son is feeling VERY scared about losing you (and seeing you ill), and starting a new school only exacerbates feelings of insecurity. Little kids are like sponges for family stress. Without a doubt he senses the seriousness of your condition, and picks up on everyone's fears.

I would also take him to the peds to rule out infection/diabetes, and then discuss ways to help your son deal w/ the stress of it all. He really needs your compassion and understanding more than anything. He can't verbalize his feelings of having no control over circumstances, so his body demonstrates it. Shame will only reinforce his current reaction to stress.

I would tell him, "sometimes this happens to kids, no big deal. You have had to handle a lot of stuff lately, and this must make it more stressful for you. First we'll go to the doctor and make sure everything is working OK. In the meantime, let's just wear a pull-up for a while until your bladder works this out. We can work on making sure you check your bladder throughout the day. This won't last forever. I love you (hugs)". Something along those lines.

[EdnaMarie]

When I am going somewhere for a long time with my DD who just turned four, I will offer an incentive / bribe for her to go before. She rarely has accidents... maybe every few months? But I am trying to teach her to go ahead of time rather than wait until she's desperate. I will say, "I don't want to have to stop so we'll just go [to this place you love] after you've peed." That's if she wants to go, of course. Otherwise, "I really don't feel like stopping the car later. If you pee now, I'll let you have a vitamin drink in the car." Or whatever.

I agree that ultimately this is probably an emotional/social cause and it's stressful for him.

[coop_mom]

Originally Posted by pregnant@40

I would tell him, "sometimes this happens to kids, no big deal. You have had to handle a lot of stuff lately, and this must make it more stressful for you. First we'll go to the doctor and make sure everything is working OK. In the meantime, let's just wear a pull-up for a while until your bladder works this out. We can work on making sure you check your bladder throughout the day. This won't last forever. I love you (hugs)". Something along those lines.

I think this is great advice, thanks so much.

We're not big with shame around here, though it does seem to want to go that way when I get so frustrated with him! After having a night to sleep on it, I do know that I want to back off a bit, and your suggestions sound like the path I want to take. I do have a call in to the docs, we'll see what they suggest, and I'll probably make an appt for him to go in tomorrow.

[SpottedFoxx]

Originally Posted by pregnant@40

I would tell him, "sometimes this happens to kids, no big deal. You have had to handle a lot of stuff lately, and this must make it more stressful for you. First we'll go to the doctor and make sure everything is working OK. In the meantime, let's just wear a pull-up for a while until your bladder works this out. We can work on making sure you check your bladder throughout the day. This won't last forever. I love you (hugs)". Something along those lines.

[Dandelionkid]

I know how hard it is not to get frustrated!! My DS just potty-trained at 4 yrs 4 months and it was a long time coming. I am most happy that I didn't push it too hard and let him work it out on his own. Sometimes I messed up though- it is hard to clean up big-boy poop and baby poop all day long. A friend of mine told me to make him clean himself up but this seemed unusual and cruel considering he obviously wasn't ready yet to go on the potty.

This is such a huge age for my boy!! He is regressing in terms of shyness and sometimes not even wanting to leave the same room as me. I think some kids find this year of separating to be really stressful. Maybe your boy needs to feel complete acceptance from you before he can start moving forward again. Maybe he is going back into the safety of babyhood to get that feeling of security back again. Who knows but I would second the option of putting him in pull-ups and trying to be matter-of-fact about it. Give yourself a time-limit that you are ok with, like "for 3 months I will let him be in control of all BM's and pee's" and just relax for that time period. If needed start again when that time is over!

[ComplexOphelia]

Originally Posted by pregnant@40

I would tell him, "sometimes this happens to kids, no big deal. You have had to handle a lot of stuff lately, and this must make it more stressful for you. First we'll go to the doctor and make sure everything is working OK. In the meantime, let's just wear a pull-up for a while until your bladder works this out. We can work on making sure you check your bladder throughout the day. This won't last forever. I love you (hugs)". Something along those lines.

I love this! I have no idea what toilet learning looked like for me, but it resulted in me being INTENSELY ashamed of my need to ever use a bathroom to this day. I actually remember peeing myself at one point in kindergarten because I was too embarrassed to say that I needed to go to the bathroom - not good.

I understand your frustration, and admire you for recognizing the importance of making sure that shame doesn't enter into your interactions with your child - especially with something like this!

[Cutie Patootie]

I might go the chiropractor route before the ped. Sometimes while growing things go a little off. A few adjusts might work wonders.

[One_Girl]

Frequent accidents are sometimes the only sign of a bladder infection. I suggest taking him in for a test asap just in case (because it can go to the kidneys fairly quickly) then working on it from other angles after that.