How do you help the gifted child's behavior problems when you don't know what's wrong? - Page 4

[LynnS6]

I'm just going to post this once more because I think it's so valuable:

Playful Parenting.

It's play "therapy" for parents to do with their kids. And it works. When I do these things with my kids, life is happier. But the key is to let the child lead the play and to follow their lead. It's not intended to replace therapy with a trained therapist if the child needs it, but it can make a huge difference.

[Miss Information]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

I'm just going to post this once more because I think it's so valuable:

Playful Parenting.

It's play "therapy" for parents to do with their kids. And it works. When I do these things with my kids, life is happier. But the key is to let the child lead the play and to follow their lead. It's not intended to replace therapy with a trained therapist if the child needs it, but it can make a huge difference.

Thanks.

I looked at the table of contents. It looks good and blends well with what I'm reading right now...

I like Chpt 12 - Accept Strong Feelings - (Theirs and Yours)

Seems like what the Dr. ordered.

Thanks again...I hope I didn't dismiss it the first time you suggested it. I just got off on a tangent.

[joensally]

Quaz, that's the thing about having a "schedule" - it creates time. Rather than suddenly realizing that they have to go to bed and hadn't gotten to something they'd planned, they now have hours of time to do what they like with. This is really important to both of them, but particularly to DS. He's highly, highly divergent, has SPD and he needs to know that he's going to have time to listen to a few chapters of his audiobook while doing lego or whatever, or to invent or build something, or to play with us or his sister or a friend. That's his compromise - he sucks it up from when he gets up until he gets home, and because we've made sure what needed to happen happened, he has hours to himself of unstructured time without obligations.

[joensally]

MissI, I wasn't dismissing or criticizing your therapist; I was pointing out that they all have different strengths. I should have been clearer. I was also encouraging you to do what you need to do to heal yourself, because you deserve it as a human being.

If you reconsider some of this thread as coming from women who may also have had difficult childhoods and experiences and have found a space after all of that, where there's more peace, less anxiety, reduced triggering, improved emotional regulation and can now share some of the tools that have helped both the mom and their child(ren), does it seem different at all?

I use this example sometimes, and I hope it doesn't offend anyone. It's just a great visual example. Have you ever seen the Dog Whisperer? I think he demonstrates a great example of assessing what the dog needs and providing it, and of leading from a place of calm assurance. This is the skill I learned and use with my children - I have to be calm so that I can lend them my prefrontal cortex when they've lost emotional control and are dysregulated. I have felt and seen it happen - my shoulders are up and tensed, and I'm saying the right words but the kids are still escalating. Versus I'm calmly assured that we're all going to be alright, my shoulders are relaxed and I'm transfering my focused energy and clarity to them. Similar to what your quote above mentions - through the eyes from the mother to the child.

This thread seems to have gotten hung up on the schedule. The schedule, and there've been plenty of examples demonstrating that we're not discussing 5 minute increments, forms the backbone of the strategy to provide a child with predictability and calm. They can regulate better when they know what to expect. On top of that, there are strategies of ensuring sufficient food and sleep, a sensory diet, calm emotional support, connected and playful parenting etc etc.

Have you read any Vygotsky? I think some of the ideas might appeal to you and can be used at home.

[Miss Information]

Yes, the thread did get hung up on the schedule.

No, in the end, I didn't think you were dismissing or criticizing my therapist. I think she's is in some ways, exactly what I needed and in other ways, not. But she was much better than the CBT based therapist I saw for a few sessions and didn't get a great feel from - too many forms/assessments he gave me to track my own moods - felt too much like boring homework). I did want to clarify what usefulness I did get from her.

And I have briefly read about of Vygotsky's work in an introductory Human Development class I took when my youngest was 18 months. I know a little about zone of proximal development and scaffolding and that's about it.

As far as the schedules go...the girls ARE getting to be pretty artistic. I might just have dh work on something with the girls that will work for them, while I continue to shore up my own regulatory process in order to help them with theirs. The schedule is something that I just am not motivated to tackle right now. That's something easy enough for him to take on and participate in.

The girls are at grandmothers this weekend. Most likely, as usual, there will be some adjustments after returning from Camp Grandma. Usually it takes a day or so to decompress from all the fun and excitement. I have NO idea what kind of schedule (or not) she keeps. I think it's pretty crazy from what I gather. They always are riled up (in a good but exhausting way) by Grandma and Auntie.

I'm going to bring up these things mentioned to dh because it IS my intention to use the time he's laid off to bring more harmony to the family.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[meemee]

miss info, i just came across this post.

i want you to also note that prepuberty might be another spanner in the works making it even worse. making other things far more intensive.

HALT was and IS hugely important to dd (never even knew it was called HALT - thanks quaz) but with her excessive PMSing behaviour it was a hormonal change.

she got BO at 6 and started breast buds recently.

[quaz]

deleted

Edited by quaz - 5/25/11 at 10:43am

[Bird Girl]

Hi Miss I--I remember you clearly because your middle girl reminds me a lot of my daughter. Off the top of my head, these are a few troubleshooting tips that came to my rescue when my daughter was around that age--

--Fish oil supplement--biologically different than flax seed oil.
--probiotic supplement--helps with the "my tummy hurts" complaint.
--earlier bedtime--honestly, anything after 8 p.m. is pushing your luck.
--school pickup which begins with hand sanitizer and protein-containing snack.

It would never have occurred to me to take my kids out in the hour before dinner--even for a treat, like the Halloween decorations. As far as I am concerned, that hour is still the witching hour for my formerly colicky baby. Quiet, indoor activities only during that time.

Secondly, may I respectfully request that you re-read, at your leisure, your interaction with Roar. From an outside perspective, I thought Roar read your posts carefully, responded very thoughtfully and gently, and continued to try and work around your emotions to provide practical suggestions. You seemed very defensive, and fell back to the position that no one understands exactly what you are going through, and no one should tell you how to live your life.

Often, when we post about a problem or question, we know already what some obvious fixes would be. Could it be that you were looking more for sympathy, or for permission to keep a very flexible routine despite the fact that (according to your posts) it doesn't seem to be working well? You don't need to respond, but you might wish to reflect on that question yourself.

I'm sorry about your stressful employment situation. I hope your DH finds enjoyable and remunerative employment soon.

[Miss Information]

Originally Posted by Bird Girl

Hi Miss I--I remember you clearly because your middle girl reminds me a lot of my daughter. Off the top of my head, these are a few troubleshooting tips that came to my rescue when my daughter was around that age--

--Fish oil supplement--biologically different than flax seed oil.
--probiotic supplement--helps with the "my tummy hurts" complaint.
--earlier bedtime--honestly, anything after 8 p.m. is pushing your luck.
--school pickup which begins with hand sanitizer and protein-containing snack.

It would never have occurred to me to take my kids out in the hour before dinner--even for a treat, like the Halloween decorations. As far as I am concerned, that hour is still the witching hour for my formerly colicky baby. Quiet, indoor activities only during that time.

Secondly, may I respectfully request that you re-read, at your leisure, your interaction with Roar. From an outside perspective, I thought Roar read your posts carefully, responded very thoughtfully and gently, and continued to try and work around your emotions to provide practical suggestions. You seemed very defensive, and fell back to the position that no one understands exactly what you are going through, and no one should tell you how to live your life.

Often, when we post about a problem or question, we know already what some obvious fixes would be. Could it be that you were looking more for sympathy, or for permission to keep a very flexible routine despite the fact that (according to your posts) it doesn't seem to be working well? You don't need to respond, but you might wish to reflect on that question yourself.

I'm sorry about your stressful employment situation. I hope your DH finds enjoyable and remunerative employment soon.

Looking for sympathy? No, I have had plenty of that. I need solutions. A magic wand would be nice, or at least an adjustment of my expectations.

Perhaps I got paranoid, but I felt like people were thinking my child was totally out of control and that bothered me. Believe me, she's light years better than she was. I was hoping for some ideas OTHER than mere scheduling to help refine the rest.

But, as an aside about schedules/routine...

The way I see it, it's motivation they need. A prime example was today. It's their Halloween parties.

Can you believe that they were instantly up, ate breakfast by 7 am, was all dressed ready to go in shoes, coats and bags packed by 7:25 am?

Any OTHER day it's dawdling, goofing off, getting in each other's way. They absolutely have no reason to scoot.

Today they were motivated, collected, and chomping at the bit to get going.

I was blown away, and I asked them why they were all ready to go. Dd said, "It's a really special day mom".

So, why can't they do that any OTHER day. Meh, no reason to, but no reason NOT to either.

I appreciate your thoughts. Bird Girl. I am sitting here waiting for coloring sheets to print out for my youngest's halloween party in about 25 minutes.

I worry about the mercury in fish oil, which is why I haven't done it yet. No local store around here sells the Nordic Naturals (I think that's the one that's better isn't it?). I haven't checked the local health/vitamin store in a while...maybe they do now. If they have that, I'll pick some up and try it.

At school pickup, I do bring a snack, though I haven't found a suitable protein containing portable snack yet. If I could get over my fear of soy, I'd have a lot more options.

Bedtime does need to be turned back, at least a half hour. That's do-able.

[serenbat]

No local store around here sells the Nordic Naturals

I find it cheaper on line even with shipping
your food/oil question might be answered in the TF section

we are anti-soy

[quaz]

deleted

Edited by quaz - 5/25/11 at 10:43am

[Bird Girl]

I do soy in moderation, like the Cliff Bars by Z-bar. We don't eat tofu or fake meat except on a rare occasion. I don't worry about a couple of tablespoons of soy flour.

Consumer Reports found no contamination by either mercury or PCBs in any of the fish oils they tested. You could try krill oil instead, if that's available in your area.

[clickclackmoo]

I'm going to give an idea that seems a bit off the beaten path here - it may be something that only works for my DD and my DH, because I haven't seen it recommended in other places or other threads, but here we go...

DH and DD are the anxious ones in the family. DH also had a very negative, fearful childhood. Both of them gravitate strongly towards pastimes that help them feel powerful. In DD's case, this is preoccupation bordering on obsession with dinosaurs, sharks, big cats, raptors, etc etc. Things with teeth. She falls back on them when she feels unsure of herself - takes dragons to school with her (she's almost 5, for the record) - and just plain enjoys them more than everything else. She needs this type of imaginative outlet to feel strong. DH has multiple black belts and teaches martial arts. It is very literally his way of staying sane and feeling safe. There is a meditative aspect, a combative aspect, and a fitness aspect. We fully intend that DD will be taking martial arts classes in due course. And DH drew and drew and drew as a child. Bloody, violent, superhero scenes. He was the artist, in control of the carnage.

Sooo....what I'm saying is perhaps your DD would benefit from play that specifically puts power into her hands one way or another. I know Cohen encourages letting the child make the rules and feel in charge. Also wrestling for girls. I'm suggesting that you could, if this resonates at all, seek out activities or pretend games that allow her to explore her ferocious side and her strength. It does an anxious person good to feel control and predictability in ways other than what happens when in the day. This gives it to the person herself.

[Hokulele]

I don't have time to read/respond here right now, but I'm lurking.

My DD1 is 5 and I think we are very much headed in your direction. Everything you wrote sounded eeirily familiar. I am seriously considering therapy to try to get at the root of what is causing this, how to navigate it and hopefully to gain some new parenting skills to help DH and me figure out how to help DD.

[bknco1]

If you are having any success at all can you please email me, because you just described my 7 year old, spot on, and I am at my wits end. [e-mail]

[A&A]

I know this is an old thread, but since another poster asked for help, I'll say this:

1)  Make sure your child is getting enough sleep.  (Children today, on average, get an hour less sleep than children did a generation ago.)  So, at least 10--12 hours per night.  Make sleep an absolute priority.  

2)  Don't offer choices when your child needs food due to reactive hypoglycemia.  My son will also reject every choice when he's having a meltdown and needs food.  I just TELL him what he's eating.  I'll say, "You're in a bad mood because you're hungry.  You are going to eat a piece of cheese and then you are going to feel better."  

3)  It's really important to gifted/sensitive children (and probably children in general) that you allow them to have the feelings they're having.  Feelings aren't ever wrong.  Sometimes the choices we make based on feelings can be wrong, but the feelings themselves aren't wrong.  So don't ever try to talk your child out of his/her feelings.  Let her be upset about being laughed at, for example, without telling her she shouldn't feel that way.  Apologize when you hurt her feelings.  

Edited by A&A - 9/8/12 at 6:11pm

[pitchfork]

One more thought on schedules, from a mom to a sensitive, disregulated , gifted SPD kid (I am so grateful to see that many of you who have responded have similar kiddos, I have not been using this board as a resource, but I will now! )

I also come from an abuse background and work with my own PTSD, so I hear ya

It sounds to me like your days have a predictable rhythm to them. I also hear that any more than that is more than you can do.

It's my experience that it's not the rigidity of the schedule, so much as the predictability, which you already have. But disregulated kids may be unaware of it. It may be the same thing every day, but they don't know or feel that. So something as simple as reviewing it verbally on a regular basis for awhile, or writing down what you already do, and IME, pointing out when there is a change and giving observations about how the child is being flexible may help build on what you are already doing. For us we have family meetings where we check in on how we are feeling (modeling self awareness) and then say a rough schedule for the day, on weekends, or days that are less structured for some reason, my husband calls it "a plan to deviate from" . So not tight, controlling, or rigid, but aware. Helps bring in meta cognition IME.

Good luck and peace...