relocating to state with new rules

[mommy65]

i guess i'm looking for info, ideas and support. i have a five and a seven year old who have never been vaccinated. we live and homeschool in california and, even though we initially thought we'd start with vaxing after age two, thanks to a great pediatrician and supportive homeschool community, we never did. now we're moving to tennessee and possibly sending our kids to school. the law there is strict, allowing only for religious or medical waivers and i just don't feel comfortable claiming religious exemption. i feel good that our children were spared the attack of multiple immunizations on their tiny bodies up until this point, but i'm not sure i'm prepared to fight the uphill battle we will face from schools and physicians in tennessee. i guess i'm looking for...support? tell me it's ok and we're not abandoning our principles for the easier road? i don't know. i'm also wondering if any of you delayed vaxing until this age and how you handled it, in terms of spacing the shots, preparing the kids, etc. any ideas for easing pain/ anxiety and also strengthening the body to recover from the vaccines themselves. thanks. it helps just to write this.

[karanyavel]

The only advice I can really offer is for comfort if you do choose/have to go the vaccination route.

Motrin given an hour prior to the shots can help a lot, but if your kids have sensitive stomachs, you can use Tylenol instead (not quite as effective, but helpful).

Ask your ped or FP about EMLA cream. I've heard that EMLA cream, when applied under a bandage in the spot where the shot will be given (about an hour in advance), will decrease the pain considerably. But you'll need a prescription.

Watch for fevers in the days (and weeks, when it comes to the MMR!) afterwards and treat them promptly w/Tylenol or Motrin.

Try to avoid getting a whole bunch of shots done all at once. Not only is this rougher on the kids, if one of them does have a reaction, you won't know which shot caused it.

Some shots are more painful than others. My experience is the DTaP is the most uncomfortable (TD is just as bad) and that Hep. B and Polio vaxes don't really hurt much. MMR isn't too bad, but if you have a significant amount of American Indian blood, watch out in 10-12 days as your child may become quite ill.

As for easing anxiety in your kids... lots of positive talk (tell them how strong they are, and you know they'll do great), but make sure they're aware that it will hurt briefly. A post-vaccination ice cream cone can help a lot too.

We're thinking about delaying vaxes in our upcoming child until he is maybe 5-6 years old, and we'll be delaying the MMR until he's 12 or so I think.

Best of luck!

--K

[karanyavel]

Sorry for the double post, but I just remembered this.

My own vaccinations were delayed until I was 21 years old! At that age they only gave me TD, Hep B and MMR I think. I know that older children don't need to get as many vaxes as the little ones do... yet another reason delaying makes sense (to me).

--K

[Fyrestorm]

Religious exemption in most states is more like a philo exemption (haven't studies TN specifically though)

I don't belong to any organized church - or religion for that matter and the faith I practice doesn't have a doctrine of any sort, let alone a ruling on vaccinations.

I belong to the church of Fyrestorm and the practice is against my personal religious beliefs. I believe that my DD's body is not vaccine deficient and that nature gave her everything she needs. Injecting foreign substances into her body goes against what I truly believe.

In most states, that is a religious exemption.

You may also want to post in your tribe for the details for TN specifically

[HRJ]

I lived in TN for 3 yrs. We didn't have a child in school at that age, but I know of a great dr that wouldn't mind if you didn't vaccinate or could lead you through the process of doing it in a safer way. He's in the Nashville area. Also, I am not a fan of medicating if you do vaccinate b/c you won't know if your child had a reaction or not. And I highly discourage Tylenol. I have seen on a lot of autism boards that Tylenol depletes your gluathione, and you need glutatione to help detoxify the crap that's in the vaccines. They believe there is greater risk of reaction if you add Tylenol to the mix. In fact, I saw a video on the Autism Research Institute's website that says if you do vaccinate to load up on Vitamin A, C, garlic and glutathione. I know your kids are older, but I called ARI to see if they thought we were out of the woods on vax reactions (my DS is almost 6 and we'd contemplated the Dtap). They knew of a 7 yr old that became autistic at 7 after a flu vax. There was a 6 yr old too but she didn't know what triggered the 6 yr olds.

[mommy65]

thank you so much! this is all very helpful. i hadn't heard of the seven year old who had a severe reaction like that. how scary. i am hopeful that, by waiting, we may reduce the number of vaccines, but i haven't gotten clear on that. i find the schedules so confusing! also, i would *love* the name of the doctor you mentioned! we are moving to nashville and i've been told it will be very difficult to find a cooperative physician. that would ease my mind greatly!

[Arduinna]

I'm not sure why you are assuming there will be a battle, let alone an uphill one. I'd use the religious exemption, you do not need to be a member of any specific religion to use it. But then, I wouldn't move to a state where I felt I'd have no choice but to vax in the first place.

[HRJ]

Originally Posted by mommy65

thank you so much! this is all very helpful. i hadn't heard of the seven year old who had a severe reaction like that. how scary. i am hopeful that, by waiting, we may reduce the number of vaccines, but i haven't gotten clear on that. i find the schedules so confusing! also, i would *love* the name of the doctor you mentioned! we are moving to nashville and i've been told it will be very difficult to find a cooperative physician. that would ease my mind greatly!

Just PMd you. Better yet, he's a family dr, so you can see him too.

[MamieCole]

Originally Posted by mommy65

i guess i'm looking for info, ideas and support. i have a five and a seven year old who have never been vaccinated. we live and homeschool in california and, even though we initially thought we'd start with vaxing after age two, thanks to a great pediatrician and supportive homeschool community, we never did. now we're moving to tennessee and possibly sending our kids to school. the law there is strict, allowing only for religious or medical waivers and i just don't feel comfortable claiming religious exemption. i feel good that our children were spared the attack of multiple immunizations on their tiny bodies up until this point, but i'm not sure i'm prepared to fight the uphill battle we will face from schools and physicians in tennessee. i guess i'm looking for...support? tell me it's ok and we're not abandoning our principles for the easier road? i don't know. i'm also wondering if any of you delayed vaxing until this age and how you handled it, in terms of spacing the shots, preparing the kids, etc. any ideas for easing pain/ anxiety and also strengthening the body to recover from the vaccines themselves. thanks. it helps just to write this.

I see you have gotten some good information so far.

My only advice would be to think about why you didn't vax in the first place. And ask yourself if those concerns still exist now that your kids are older. If you still have concerns, I'd investigate every avenue possible to get the exemption.

Good luck!

[moondiapers]

We would use the religous exemption, even though dh is athiest and I'm pagan.....because it's against my religion to inflict unnecessary pain on my children. I don't believe they need vaccines, so poking them with needles for the heck of it falls under abuse to me. I have no problem with them getting a shot of medicine if they actually need it, but otherwise I think it's cruel. You don't have to belong to a spefic religion or any at all to have spiritual/religous beliefs....and if you think that the risk outweighs the possible benefits then it's easy to make that a religous reason....I think it's against most mother's "Religions" to inflict harm on their children.

[13Sandals]

Hi,
a couple of things...the problems with tylenol aren't just glutathione related. Here is a study showing the use of prophylactic acetaminophin reduces the child's ability to mount an immune response. Of course, if it decreases an immune response to vaccination - it seems a little more than silly to use it during a natural illness....the point is to let the body fight whatever its fighting, not give it something like Tylenol that hamstrings the immune system altogether. Why this drug is still on the market for fever is beyond me.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/710788

"Because this study showed reduced protective antibodies with...[acetaminophen] and because other studies fail to show that...[acetaminophen] actually helps as much as we thought, I won't recommend that parents give to their kids. I would say that's out of the books now. If a child does develop a fever and is very uncomfortable, then you can give it. That’s a common sense approach anyway. Why would you give drugs unnecessarily?"

Some folks who have delayed vaccines have witnessed regressive autism in older children. Mine was 5.

I too consider protecting my children as part of my religion. The TN wording of the law is good and bad, imo...Requirements do not apply to any "child whose parent or guardian files with proper authorities a signed, written statement that such immunization and other preventative measures conflict with the religious tenets and practices of the parent or guardian affirmed under penalties of perjury."

Good is it states 'the religious tenets and practices of the parent' - not the organization, which implies that religion is a personal matter. However, it also states 'other preventive measures'. That's ambiguous...vitamin C could be considered preventative. Anyway - if you notarized a statement, you wouldn't likely have difficulty, but I'd want some specific legal interpretation of this clause if I were moving to TN.

[mommy65]

all thoughtful responses. thank you. 13sandals, could you tell me more the vaccine reaction in your five year old? i will say that, as far as i can tell, the longer you wait to immunize, the fewer they have to have. it seems that my seven year old will be spared some, if we choose to go ahead. having said that, i'm leaning against it. i just hope we don't end up in the ER, where i've heard terrible stories of harassment from medical personel. we experienced this a bit in california, but it seems much worse there. i'll just have to deal.

[xmasbaby7]

Originally Posted by mommy65

all thoughtful responses. thank you. 13sandals, could you tell me more the vaccine reaction in your five year old? i will say that, as far as i can tell, the longer you wait to immunize, the fewer they have to have. it seems that my seven year old will be spared some, if we choose to go ahead. having said that, i'm leaning against it. i just hope we don't end up in the ER, where i've heard terrible stories of harassment from medical personel. we experienced this a bit in california, but it seems much worse there. i'll just have to deal.

Sounds to me like the unknown new area is much scarier in the abstract in your head than it will be when you get there. There are probably just as many non vaccinating families in TN than many other states using religious exemptions. Remember the religious exemption is defined as a deeply held personal belief. It sounds like this is very much a personal belief, so I am not sure why you are so hesitant to use it.

I would go to the find your tribe board and ask people what their experience is using them in the school system you are moving to. At least it is not NY state.

[BellaClaudia]

I don't have simple answer for you and I just want to wish you all the best and hope that everything will sort out the way you wish.

One thought reading your post regarding your moral dillema regarding the extempt..
I was going through major issue of similar nature untill I found out that almost all vaccinations are made usingin-utero infected and aborted for this purpose human fetus cells.

[sapphos]

 We may be moving to Nashville as well but will be unschooling so for the most part it's a moot point for us, but we do not follow any organized religion and we would have no problem claiming a religious exemption :)

[Jenne]

Cool for people moving to our wonderful, wonderful state! Exemption is easy. I also know many people who are selective and/or delayers. One of the pros of being in the "Bible Belt" is that when you say, "I have a religious exemption" it really means something to most people. No further explanation needed. I believe the term "other preventative measures" included medications to prevent illness that would be state prescribed but not nescessarily vaccine (I cannot think of anything right now, maybe flu mist?). No one is going to prevent you from giving your child Vitamin C...

Oh, and you can get a specific vaccine exemption from your doctor if you do decide you want some vaccines and not others. The doctor just notes that it isn't medically sound...I believe these are harder to get though.

Jenne

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by mommy65 

 i just hope we don't end up in the ER, where i've heard terrible stories of harassment from medical personel. we experienced this a bit in california, but it seems much worse there. i'll just have to deal.

I plan on saying that our children's doctor is supportive (she is, though you could say "aware") of our decision. We have an urgent care nearby and haven't had anything that required an ER.

[ma2two]

All you have to do is sign this form. http://tennessee.gov/education/schoolhealth/healthservices/doc/ReligiousExemptionFormED-5379.pdf  Seems pretty easy to me.

[miriam]

Plenty of people do not vax in TN.  That is where Summerville is, where Ina Mae Gaskin and others have lived for decades.