Help please! 2yo gets to a point where NOTHING will please or calm him

[curiouscanadian]

I know this is going to sound at first like average toddler "No" syndrome, but I'm asking about the times when it's more than that. (I just hope I can explain it in a way that will make sense, I only recognize it as I did/felt exactly the same way when I was younger...)

DS will get to a point when he's melting down where he doesn't WANT to calm down or feel better. To that end he doesn't want anything and/or will constantly change his mind about what he wants. He will refuse all usual comfort/distraction measures. Blanket? NO! Read a book? NO! Hungry? NO! Half the time any of these NOs will be followed directly after by "My WANT IT!" as you move to put the offered item back. For example, the other night I walked away for a few minutes to calm myself and he was (of course) crying for me, but then when I walked back into his room he freaked out because he didn't want me in his room. There are endless variations of this and it can go on for a looooong time.

Based on my experience, I would get to a point where I would almost revel in my frustration. Even if I knew on some level whatever was being offered or suggested was logical, helpful or remotely appealing, my reaction would always be to refuse it.

This can go on for HOURS, and I could really use some suggestions on how to snap (or just ease) DS out of the cycle. Although I recognize the phenomenon and know exactly how he's feeling I still haven't figured out a way to work through it. Can anyone help us out?

[Latte Mama]

I can only empathize. My DS does the same thing. For example, the other night we had a little cut up fruit for snack. He asked for a spoon. I handed him a spoon and he freaked. The tantrum started and I had no idea why.

So i tried offering him different spoons and he just kept saying "no,no". I asked him what he wanted, that mama would help him but he just sat and screamed. Then after about 5 minutes he calmed down, took the spoon and ate his fruit.

WTH? He does this a LOT. Freaks out about seemingly nothing and it is completely illogical. But I am figuring that maybe he just needs to let off some steam?
I'm confused about it but haven't figured out a way to make it better.

[Summersquash]

DD has done this too! It is the worst because I feel like I can't make things better for her. What I sometimes do is just stop offering stuff, hold her if she will let me, and just let her get the feelings out. At that point for DD it seems to be more about the feelings rather than the actual item that started the tantrum, kwim?

[Super~Single~Mama]

I would stop offering things, and let him blow off steam, while you sit there with empathy and understanding.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by thyra

I would stop offering things, and let him blow off steam, while you sit there with empathy and understanding.

This is what I do. I did it early actually with my 2 year old. It was nap time. She didn't want to nap. I lay on the bed with a book and she screamed at me. I told her I could read her the book or I could leave her to sleep (she usually falls asleep alone). She kept screaming at me so I left. She screamed some more and fell asleep. I even peeked back in there and re-offered the book/snuggle and she just kept yelling at me.

She was tired and slept for 3 hours. Woke up happy.

It mostly happens when she's tired. She had a fit last night b/c she wanted to put on her own jammies but couldn't (just isn't capable) so I did it for her. And she screamed and screamed at me. Eventually she got over it and joined us for books.

She's my second child and I learned with my first that 2 year olds just freak out a lot. I keep things simple and like I said, 99% of the time it just means she needs to sleep.

[reezley]

Originally Posted by thyra

I would stop offering things, and let him blow off steam, while you sit there with empathy and understanding.

Yes. Took me a while with ds1 to learn this, when he had these "episodes" especially when tired or in the middle of the night - they get themselves into this state, and there's nothing you can do to MAKE them stop. Just silence. Or just a quick "I won't say anything else about it, I'll just wait a bit".

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by thyra

I would stop offering things, and let him blow off steam, while you sit there with empathy and understanding.

Yep, my theory is that sometimes they NEED to have a fit. Something in their bodies or their minds is in disequilibrium and they need to get that tension out. I learned the hard way that trying to reason with them when they were in this state was an exercise in frustration for all of us!

Actually my 6 year old had a tantrum like this not too long ago. She had an idea that her brother was going to accompany us to an event. He decided he didn't want to go. She wanted to go, but only with him. Really, there was no solution. So, she sobbed for awhile, and then got over it. Nothing I suggested worked. No reasonable argument worked. In fact, it made it worse. She was just disappointed that the world was not working how she envisioned, and had to get over it. It's pretty rare that my 6 year old has a tantrum like this these days, but they happen. And as someone else said, it's almost always related to tiredness, hunger or being overstimulated.

[curiouscanadian]

Well it's nice to know I'm not alone at least!

DS has been unusually sleep-deprived this week so that's probably what triggered it the other night and this morning. It's just tough to handle for long periods of time and when I got a call from my VERY experienced and even-tempered childcare provider sounding like she was at the end of her rope at 10:30 this morning, it's a little worrisome, y'know?

I mean, it's hard enough when it's just DS, but she's got 3 other kids to care for at the same time. I'll pass on the recommendation to just let him get it out and work on getting him to bed earlier (and more consistently)!

[Pepper44]

I recently discovered my DD was extra agitated due to seasonal fall allergies. Other triggers for us are lack of sleep, low blood sugar/hungry, too much tv or computer games, and feeding off of mama stress. Or after all of that sometimes they just seem to need a good scream!

[Dandelionkid]

I don't know if this would help you but my dd 22 months has the ability to have these "displays of emotion" where nothing at all seems to help. What I started doing was lying on the bed with her (I put her there) as she kicked and screamed. I wouldn't make eye-contact. Just lay there and she eventually snapped out of it. I know she wants me, but her frustration/anger is just too much and I think it helps her to have me near, even if just for my presence. I think I would also make a sympathetic noise on a regular basis. Seemed to help but every kid is different. I can't imagine hours of that torture!!

[Kreeblim]

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid

I don't know if this would help you but my dd 22 months has the ability to have these "displays of emotion" where nothing at all seems to help. What I started doing was lying on the bed with her (I put her there) as she kicked and screamed. I wouldn't make eye-contact. Just lay there and she eventually snapped out of it. I know she wants me, but her frustration/anger is just too much and I think it helps her to have me near, even if just for my presence. I think I would also make a sympathetic noise on a regular basis. Seemed to help but every kid is different. I can't imagine hours of that torture!!

Just a warning, but my 30 month old would keep freaking out if I came anywhere near him during these types of things. He's actually diagnosed with sensory issues and now that we know to give him space we don't feel so bad about letting him cool down without feeling the constant need to be around him in some way (other than just keeping him in sight and making sure he's safe of course). He's gone from pretty confusing meltdowns of the type described in the OP to more like self-assigned time-out where he walks off, lays down and just whines or pouts for a bit. Then he gets up and is fine...it's weird.

Not saying this is the case here, and for a normal child the close contact is probably very comforting, but keep in mind if it doesn't work for for your child that some kids are just overloaded and need the time alone.

[shanniesue2]

DS has occasionally had those kinds of fits that did last an hour or more. They are so tough. Sometimes a change of scenery works. Once, after an hour of that, I just put him in the car seat and went for a drive. Yes I had to shove him in there, but within about 10 minutes, he had calmed down. Doesn't work every time... but it's a suggestion.

[Llyra]

My DD1 does this. She did it a LOT at age 2 or 3. But she's six now, and she still occasionally has times like this. The only solution that works consistently is to just say, "well, I think you need to take some time to cool off. okay, come find me if you need anything." And then I'd leave the room, and go do something else, and leave her to pull herself together alone. I'd let her make the first move, when she was ready to engage again.

The upside of this is that now, at this age, she's starting to be able to recognize that she's in that state, and she'll say things like, "I'm really cranky, and I need to go sit on my bed awhile," or "mama, just let me be alone."

If the child really wanted me there, what I would do is go get something to do- a magazine to read, for example, or some laundry to fold-- and sit down nearby and engage myself in THAT, and just look up occasionally to let the child know I was still there. Then I'd let the child make the first move.

I do agree that sleep loss may be the culprit- I've noticed that my DD1 is more likely to get to that point, when she's been going short on sleep.

[Lit Chick]

I know exactly what you are talking about, both because I remember doing the same and because DS1 does it too. In fact, he did it this morning (he was over tired and has a little cold, so feeling bad physically makes the meltdowns more likely).

What works so far is to semi ignore. Flat out ignoring only adds fuel to the fire because he feels neglected. Trying to stop it makes it worse because he's in contrary mode. I acknowledge that he is upset, and then leave him be. Let him have his cry or scream, and it's usually over in 5-10 minutes.

Months ago, when these first started, I had no idea what to do... and then I had one of my own with my husband. I forget the details, but I realized that when I am in a mood and being snippy with my DH, I want him to notice, awknowledge, but not try and talk me out of it... if he ignores me then I end up picking a fight for attention. If he is like "snap out of it" I get angry because I have every right to feel bad. And my kid is the same way. He may be small but he has the same complex emotions. Frustration builds for whatever reason and needs to get out.

So, one day when he was in the major freak out mode, I got down to his level, and told him "sometimes you need to get the tears out. When you are ready to be calm, let me know." My tone was calm and kind. At first, he screamed even louder, but very quickly it turned into little sobs, and then like magic he happily ran out saying "I got my tears out! I feel better!" And he was back to normal.

After a big blowup like that though, his mood will be a bit fragile for a bit. And he will easily go back to a freak out because it does feel good to have a good cry... but after the first one is over I nip any flare ups in the bud. This morning, he had his main cry, then decided to start having a fit about wearing pants. I let him know that I'm not going to be bothered with any aftershocks - he gets his fit, but then he is expected to get a grip. So far, so good.

There's no way to avoid the emotional explosions when you are like we are, but you can better handle them (heck, I handle my own much better now because of this!)

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by Kreeblim

Just a warning, but my 30 month old would keep freaking out if I came anywhere near him during these types of things. He's actually diagnosed with sensory issues and now that we know to give him space we don't feel so bad about letting him cool down without feeling the constant need to be around him in some way (other than just keeping him in sight and making sure he's safe of course). He's gone from pretty confusing meltdowns of the type described in the OP to more like self-assigned time-out where he walks off, lays down and just whines or pouts for a bit. Then he gets up and is fine...it's weird.

Not saying this is the case here, and for a normal child the close contact is probably very comforting, but keep in mind if it doesn't work for for your child that some kids are just overloaded and need the time alone.

That's something to keep in mind. Likely a good clue is if they try to get away when you are close. In my case , dd cried for me when I left and acted oppositional when I came close, but she never tried to leave my presence. With trial and error it seemed to work best to stay.

Maybe the extreme tantrums the OP is describing do have a sensory basis- they are definitely longer than what we have experienced and similar to a child we know who has sensory issues. It must be hard as a mother to not be able to offer comfort when what the kid needs is space.

[SpottedFoxx]

It could be sensory related without having a sensory issue. When a child is over or under stimulated - the typical response at that age is a melt down. DS would have meltdowns that lasted forever. I'd have to shut the lights, wrap him in his blanket and rock him. It was the only way to settle him. Now that he's older, he has learned to self regulate.

Try leaving her alone. If that doesn't work, wrap her in her favorite blanket and hold her tightly and see if that helps.

[curiouscanadian]

I recently discovered my DD was extra agitated due to seasonal fall allergies.

I've been wondering if that's a possibility with DS too - how do you tell if it's allergies (as opposed to the average cold)?

He's actually diagnosed with sensory issues and now that we know to give him space we don't feel so bad about letting him cool down without feeling the constant need to be around him in some way (other than just keeping him in sight and making sure he's safe of course).

This is actually might be a factor. Not diagnosed, but I have been wondering for awhile if DS has some mild sensory issues. He's very sensitive to textures at least. Maybe I'll experiment a bit and see if giving him space helps.

Sometimes a change of scenery works.

This is what our childcare provider ended up doing yesterday (took everyone outside for a walk). It seemed to help although he was still pretty emotionally fragile until naptime. Which is understandable if it was fatigue that triggered it in the first place.

The only solution that works consistently is to just say, "well, I think you need to take some time to cool off. okay, come find me if you need anything." And then I'd leave the room, and go do something else, and leave her to pull herself together alone. I'd let her make the first move, when she was ready to engage again.

This also sounds like something that might work. I wouldn't want to just walk away from him lest he feel abandoned, so it's nice to have a phrase in mind.

Lit Chick - it's great when someone understands as exactly as you do! As I was reading your post it was like I had written it. I guess I was just feeling like as the mom I should at least be trying to "make it better" but forgot that what he really might need is just to get it out.

I guess I'll have to do a bit of experimenting to see how much of my presence he wants/needs, but it's so nice to have some ideas to try next time (not that I'm in any rush for the "next time"! ). I've been so lost up to now...

[Tigerchild]

What has worked best for me with my most intense kid is to honor an obvious request for a disengagement. Sometimes I needed to just let her flop around on the floor and scream and cry, being in the room (book or meditation) while not engaging. No eye contact. No talking. No touching. Calm presence. When DD was ready to re-engage, I allowed her to make the first move, and always gave her a few minutes before I returned the gesture or got some other indication that it would be welcome.

For example, I was sitting in her room near the end of the fit, and she rolled over to me and put her hand on my leg. I made the mistake of looking at her, trying to cuddle her up, and talking to her all at once--which reignited it. The next time when she engaged me, I let her hand lay there until she relaxed and curled up against me, and then without making eye contact or touching I asked if she'd like a mama pet. (at the time she loved pretending to be a puppy or a kitten) Once she gave her approval, I did so. Eventually she made it on to my lap.

I know some kids probably do want to be persued when they're having a fit. But, if a kid doesn't, I think it's actually okay to be nearby but disengaged. If I'd tried to verbally empathize with my daugher during it I would have just pissed her off more. I was there to monitor safety, and to be present despite her behavior. Especially with toddlers, I think that's important.

DD still occasionally has a fit, but the strategy is different now since she can express whether she wants to be alone-alone or if she wants me to just leave her alone. I do leave the room for her now if that's what she needs. And I do put more guidelines on what she can say to me before I choose to leave for my own health (she always has an option to let me know that she wants me to leave without being mean). But at two, I think it's important to be present or within peripheral vision seeing range for safety reasons.

[Skippy918]

We are going through this exact thing right now. Last night, we had just had dinner. DS comes over to me and asked for a snack. I said no snack, you can eat more dinner or have some fruit. He proceeds to start yanking on my shirt to pull me up which I resisted and he goes hysterical crying. I tried to hold him, but he didn't want that at all. How do you ignore the tantrum when they're grabbing at you for something? I don't even know if he wants to be alone or with us. It's so hard to get a read on him when he can't verbally express him emotions yet. Eventually he calmed down and then had some yogurt and a pear.

[Petie1104]

sorry, I didn't read all the responses but here are a couple suggestions.

If asking what he wants is causing more turmoil, then just hand him what you think he needs, if he throws it, leave it where he threw it, he can get it himself if he wants it later.

Offer choices when possible, this sometimes snapped my dd out of a fit. Honey, I know you're upset, but did you want your pink pony to hold, or your brown one? She would have to stop and think for a second which one she really wanted.

If the fit is over something upsetting, then get upset with him (not severly, but just go with me here). It is raining so you have to cancel going to the park. He starts melting down, so you say, "OH I CAN'T STAND WHEN THE RAIN MESSES UP PARK DAY. THAT MAKES ME SO MAD." Make your silliest mad face possible and then ask him to show you his mad face. This usually ended in us laughing about the silly faces, but don't laugh until he's ready to.

Last but definately not least, try to remember your worst day as an adult. A day when dh walked through the door and you just started yelling, you NEEDED that release. Ultimately, you want to work away from that, but sometimes it is OK to let him give in and just release that tension.