Am I to cautious? - Page 2

[*bejeweled*]

I totally understand your concerns and have a lot of the same issues. There are a lot of good people, and there are some people without good intentions, in our "safe" neighborhoods. These are the people that watch and know which kids are vulnerable.

Our DD is 7 and she is allowed to play where I can see her from the window. I am either outside with her or reading near the window. She is not allowed to roam our neighborhood as many kids are.

IMHO, there is absolutely nothing more important that I could be doing than keeping an eye on her when she's outside.

When I want her to have more freedom, I take her to the big park where she can roam way farther because I can keep an eye on her.

[oaktreemama]

The world IS a dangerous place. I have read far to many child murder cases to feel comfortable about it.Sadly,if someone wants your child they will find a way even if it means coming into your home. You do what you can to prevent these horrors,and hope for the best!

I truly believe the media drives this kind of desperate fear. Most children who are kidnapped are kidnapped by non custodial parents or relatives. Most other children listed as missing are runaways. While these are sad cases that deserve attention, they are not the huge, sensational, and tragic cases the media needs to drive ratings and garner advertising dollars.

What does drive the ratings is planting the idea through ceasless media coverage of stranger abductions that all our children are at risk. I mean after all, you don't want what happened to little Joan Smith to happen to your kids so stay tuned through the next commerical break to learn how to protect your kids.

I believe this kind of 24/7 info drives up our stress levels so that we lose our ability to think rationally about how rare stranger abduction is. I believe we mistake the unending coverage about 1 or 2 cases and extropolate that it is happening everywhere, every day, as soon as your back is turned. It makes us believe that the only thing that exists beyond the safety of our front door is danger.

I for one am not willing or able to live under that kind of stress and fear. There is a world of difference between teaching my child common sense safety tips and teaching him to live in terror of being snatched out of his bed in the dark of night or grabbed off the street. There is a world of difference in setting age appropriate limits on freedom based on my child's level of ability, and not on my level of fear.

It is like the Google phenomenon. Whenever you are sick, you look up stomach ache and the search comes back as OMG!!! cancer. The media does the same thing because the worst news is what sells. Fear sells.

[CarrieMF]

My kids were all 4-5 when I'd let them walk to the school(5 houses away crossing 2 roads), the park or friends houses.

At 9 they would walk to the convenience store by themselves. It is a 15minute walk 1 way crossing a main street through the city.

My oldest(almost 12) now walks 4-5 blocks to catch the bus instead of walking the 4-5houses to the school to catch it there(to get to the Middle Scool).

IMO kids learn independance by giving them independance.

[treeoflife3]

Originally Posted by oaktreemama

I truly believe the media drives this kind of desperate fear. Most children who are kidnapped are kidnapped by non custodial parents or relatives. Most other children listed as missing are runaways. While these are sad cases that deserve attention, they are not the huge, sensational, and tragic cases the media needs to drive ratings and garner advertising dollars.

What does drive the ratings is planting the idea through ceasless media coverage of stranger abductions that all our children are at risk. I mean after all, you don't want what happened to little Joan Smith to happen to your kids so stay tuned through the next commerical break to learn how to protect your kids.

I believe this kind of 24/7 info drives up our stress levels so that we lose our ability to think rationally about how rare stranger abduction is. I believe we mistake the unending coverage about 1 or 2 cases and extropolate that it is happening everywhere, every day, as soon as your back is turned. It makes us believe that the only thing that exists beyond the safety of our front door is danger.

I for one am not willing or able to live under that kind of stress and fear. There is a world of difference between teaching my child common sense safety tips and teaching him to live in terror of being snatched out of his bed in the dark of night or grabbed off the street. There is a world of difference in setting age appropriate limits on freedom based on my child's level of ability, and not on my level of fear.

It is like the Google phenomenon. Whenever you are sick, you look up stomach ache and the search comes back as OMG!!! cancer. The media does the same thing because the worst news is what sells. Fear sells.

The world isn't any more dangerous than it was years ago. We just have more media coverage of all the worst things. It doesn't do a child good to teach them how scary and unsafe the world is... they won't be ready to go into it alone when they are adults. It is more important to teach a child common sense and to grant them independence based on their abilities. Some kids DO need to be watched at an older age than their peers, but many are just fine playing outside in the yard.

I WAS almost kidnapped. My brother's dad attempted to kidnap me to hold me as ransom to see my brother (who he most definitely was NOT allowed to see - court order - and I'm sure you can guess WHY based on his attempt at kidnapping ME) Still, I was allowed some freedom. It would be ridiculous to keep me locked up in my house so I don't get locked up in someone else's house. My mom couldn't watch every minute. I was taught to trust my instincts and use common sense instead.

[GuildJenn]

[QUOTE=ErinYay;15972626
Had I been told over and over how dangerous the world was, and never been allowed to learn to take care of myself in little situations, I doubt I would have had the skills to handle myself in BIG DEAL situations where clear thinking and self-confidence saved me from serious harm.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this whole post and especially this.

I was molested by a family member and I was assaulted & raped in university. Obviously I do not want my children to experience either of those things and I can be very paranoid about it. My parents were pretty disengaged and I was pretty free-range, but the worst stuff happened at home and at university.

At the same time...what saved my SPIRIT and soul was being able to really engage and connect with the world. To enjoy travel, to explore my city and others, to make friends, to be a part of my community - and to learn that I am ok; I am okay to be alone and to go out and do things. To get to know how much there is out there that is so cool.

If you can't talk to strangers, you also can't get help from strangers if you need it.

In order to do those things I had to feel confident in myself.

Like I said, I don't buy wholeheartedly into the free-range movement that sees the 60s and 70s as idyllic. I think I had too much freedom and too little structure in some ways and I think it is a mistake to try to recreate that without the same community structure. But I also think the best response is a moderate one - not to go too overboard the other way. I try to temper my fear with a little trust. And you have start small - a trip around the block. You can't go from total fear and control to letting your kids go off and have their lives, at least not easily.

Most of the world is a wonderful place - sometimes in a big city, a little indifferent, but also great. Not all communities are and so parents have to judge. But I think we do our kids a disservice if we let fear rule.

[CatsCradle]

I was taught to trust my instincts and use common sense instead.

I agree with that, and, I think that common sense with regard to what is safe and what is not varies greatly on place and circumstance. We were totally free-range when I was growing up, but we also lived in a very rural area. My family presently lives in a 5th floor apartment in a large apartment building in the middle of the city on a very busy street (with no yards). I can't apply the same practices that my parents employed with us, mainly because I live in a totally different environment. We have four, busy bars within a block from our building. My concern has less to do with people and more to do with speeding cars (specifically taxis), blind spots, and general traffic safety. My goal right now is to teach DD (who is four) basic street and traffic safety. Once I feel she is responsible, I will let her travel freely throughout the neighborhood. I think that when she is six, she will be ready to go to the corner deli on her own. I already let her go in by herself (while I wait outside) so she can get used to the idea. She loves these little moments of independence. It helps too that we have introduced her to a wide variety of people in our neighborhood (including store owners) and she has formed relationships with them. The goal is to eliminate the "stranger" aspect of her environs.

Recently, we were upstate staying in a mountain lodge, and DD roamed freely all over the grounds. It was fun for all of us. Different circumstances, different way of handling it.

[Attached2Elijah]

My son is 7... he knows his boundaries, which sometimes are JUST out of my vision/hearing but I would just have to walk about 10-20 feet outside my door to be able to see him and he's not allowed near the streets or parking lots. We are in a town-home division so there are a lot of busy streets/parking lots which make me nervous. I have stretched his boundaries a little each year. I probably won't let him play where I can't see him until he's at least 10 or so. I'm not so nervous about people as I am cars... they drive really fast around despite all the children playing outside. We had a little boy (I think he was 3) that was being watched by his 8 year old sister get hit and killed 2 years ago.

My 4 year old still doesn't go outside without me, period. I probably will start letting her go out in our front courtyard by herself in the summer next year if my windows/doors are open... and slowly spread her boundaries as I did with my son.

When I was young, we ran all over the place (granted, my sister was 5 years older then me and with me most of the time) we were out at dawn and didn't come home until dinner most days... My mom wouldn't have had a clue where we were but most of the town knew us but I am not comfortable doing the same as she did. I'm OCD so I worry about every little thing that could go wrong... maybe that sucks for my kids but better safe then sorry, I think.

[Adaline'sMama]

I was allowed to be anywhere in my neighboorhood (about 10 blocks by 8 blocks) from the time I was 8 on. The rule was, I had a certian time I had to be home to "check in". The amount of time I could be gone without checking in became longer as I got older. I wasnt allowed to call, I HAD to come by the house. We live in the country, and we dont really have a neighborhood, but I plan to allow our kids to run around and play on the farm as long as they are within of a dinner bell.

[serenbat]

I personally do not agree with you and do not raise my children in the way you are. I feel that at age 10 they should be capable of being alone unless the child is very immature.

To me the world is far from a safe place and to have the kids think otherwise to me wouldn't be right. I am always aware of my surroundings and what can happen at any given moment and until they can do that they are not safe without being watched.

I am very troubled by what you wrote and wonder given how you feel, just when will you think they will be safe?

How are you teaching them to deal with this unsafe world?

At what age to you think you can trust the older one to look after the younger?



I guess I am really baffled by this type of belief and how these children "grow-up". The only person I knew who treated their child like this ended up having a 15 year old that my 22 year old DD baby-sat for. The child was and continues to be very immature and lacks self-confidence and is now leaving for college and can't be alone. I feel sorry for the person she lives in fear of so much.

[elmh23]

I let my children play in the backyard by themselves (well, with the dogs) starting at age 2. With ds we waited slightly longer until he learned not to hit the dog.

I don't let them play in the front yard, but that's because there aren't any kids on our street and we live at a corner where people speed around. I will let them ride their scooters in front of the house and in front of one of our neighbors houses, but only if I'm in the driveway/garage.

With in the last couple weeks, we started letting dd (who will be 6 in November) go get the mail (at the end of our drive) by herself or with her brother. I watch if ds is with her, mostly cause he will sometimes go running for no damn reason.

I do think you are being overly cautious. At the very least, they should be able to play in the backyard without you calling to them so often.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I assure you my kids are very independent. My dd from day one of pre k when she was 5yo told me OK mommy you can go now. The same for my ds.

I am looking for statistics right now on child abductions for the past 30 years to see if things are worse now like I think compared to the way they where when I was a child. But I am not having any luck.

[ErinYay]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

I am looking for statistics right now on child abductions for the past 30 years to see if things are worse now like I think compared to the way they where when I was a child. But I am not having any luck.

It doesn't matter if they're worse or better. It matters that your children are more likely to be hit by lightning than to be abducted by a stranger. (Under 120 kids (aged 18 and under) each year are kidnapped by strangers.)

What tools do your kids have to prevent an abduction? If your 10-year-old is used to you calling out every 2-3 minutes, what will she do when you're not there, for whatever reason? Does she know to fight, to scream, to trust the right adults, to find a woman if she's scared, etc etc etc? Or will she crumble in silent fear?

We can't predict how any person, child or adult, will react in the worst-case scenario, but we can build strength and confidence in our kids to give them the best possible shot at surviving a rare and terrifying situation *and* to go through normal, daily lives in this "scary" world.

[EdnaMarie]

My feeling about these is that:

1. You know your kids. Kids are ready for freedom at different ages.
2. You know your area.

I once had this conversation with a woman from Florida. She kept rattling off these disgusting, horrifying cases of children being abducted, torn apart, thrown in trash cans, you name it. I thought she was hysterical until I looked at crime stats from Florida. Holy $4*+. I'm never going there! Ever. LOL except... not. It would be safer for me to let my children play on a road in Washington than to set foot in that state.

3. It's okay to have different standards, within reason. To some extent, all of our boundaries are a little arbitrary.

I for one think school-age children should have some ability and knowledge to roam their relatively safe neighborhoods, but should know safe habits.

For example, I have nieces and nephews in a town in the southwest. It's mid-sized, crime is average. They can go one block in kindy, two in first grade, three in second, etc. However, they know where a registered sex offender lives (he has a family, so they don't know what kind of crime it was, may have been statutory rape as a young man) and when he comes out, they go in. They are really careful about that.

I have also taught my daughter to scream bloody murder. I have two kids. My eyeballs are never on both of them 100% at the park. They are allowed out of my sight in a relatively well-delineated park (they are 18 mo and 4 y). So, for example, we can play hide-and-seek. DD1 knows if someone comes up and asks her to get in the car, that woman is like the witch in Hansel and Gretel, so what does she do?

RUN AND SCREAM.

What about candy?

I will give you ten times more what she offers.

Etc.

I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all standard, but I *do* think it's better to be prepared and have tools for escape and prevention, than to keep kids inside out of fear.

[*bejeweled*]

My Mom was very cautious with us. And both my brother and I are incredibly independent. We have lived in the biggest cities alone in studio apartments and traveled the world. Part of this is because she instilled in us an appropriate amount of "the real world is tough, you should be prepared."

I plan to do the same with DD. And I will not let her out of my sight for a long while to come. She's 7 and little and an only child. No way, no how.

I truly believe that you can allow your child a level of freedom while you're watching them. As long as you're not hovering.

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

I assure you my kids are very independent. My dd from day one of pre k when she was 5yo told me OK mommy you can go now. The same for my ds.

I am looking for statistics right now on child abductions for the past 30 years to see if things are worse now like I think compared to the way they where when I was a child. But I am not having any luck.

[pianojazzgirl]

Originally Posted by Doodlebugsmom

I think this is the type of thing that is greatly influenced by where you live.

Yes, I absolutely agree with this.

We live in a very urban place. Lots of people, traffic, shopping, etc. I don't let my newly 6 yr old dd out (besides in the closed backyard) without me. We also happen to live on a very busy (traffic) street. I think if we lived in our friends' house, which is just 3 big blocks away, I would feel a lot easier about dd being out and about by herself. Their street is that much quieter, and much more residential. I certainly feel comfortable with her playing in their front yard without adults present, and (if it were our house) would let her visit friends on that block of the street. I definitely don't feel confident enough in her awareness and focus to let her cross the busy streets that are around here by herself.

That said, even if, by the time she's 10, I don't feel completely comfortable letting her have some free-reign of the (immediate) neighbourhood, I would force myself past my comfort zone to let her go. I feel pretty confident that by that age she will be able to cross streets safely, and otherwise be responsible enough to stay in the area she's supposed to stay in, etc. (Of course I could be wrong... time will tell). I also think the chances of a child abductor or murderer nabbing her are so very very small, I can't let that fear rule my life.

[waiting2bemommy]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

It isnt that I dont trust my dd but I do not and can not trust others. Ds is not capable like I said of staying safe.

DD knows why I need to be able to see her because I want to keep her safe it has nothing to do with trusting her or not.

this was my mother's reason for everything under the sun. I'm not trying to sound critical because I understand the motivation to protect your children, but really, you would be surprised at how that reason can inadvertently turn into an excuse that prevents children from growing up andexperiencing appropriate freedoms.

My ds is almost 3 and he plays ouside with the neighborhood kids. he knows therules and if he breaks one of them he is in the house, no questions asked, for the rest of the day. I haven't had to ground him in a loong time. he follows my safety rules because hewants to keep hisprivilege of being outside with his friends.

I would think a 6 and 10 yo are capable of learning and following basic safety rules.

When I was 14 my parents refused to let me stay home alone at night because "its not you, its other people we don't trust." one night when we were all home someone broke in. I was the one who had the presence of mind to check the situation out safely and call the police. I promised myself at that time that I would give my children a little more credit. Please think about trusting your children a little more. How can you instill self reliance/ self confidence in them when they get the messagefromtheir mom that they don't even have enough sense to look before crossing, or yell if a stranger makes them feel uncomfortable, or whatever?

[Callimom]

I recommend reading Gavin DeBeckers Protecting the Gift. Teaching a child that the world is unsafe actually makes them less safe than teaching them to trust their instincts and giving them the opportunity to learn how to read their environment, heed their instincts and problem solve.

I think what you allow depends on your kid(s) and your environment but in general I would say that yes you are beging too overprotective.

We're well connected in our neighbourhood and there are lots of "eyes on the street" where we live. We also know our downtown area well and my kids could go into at least 10 of the stores there and know the shopkeepers by name. We live in a city of about 100,000.

By 9 or 10 my eldest would ride a few blocks on his bike to spend time at the library, run errands around the neighbourhood, could navigate the city buses on his own. He's a smart, cautious kid with very clearly defined personal boundaries, a good head on his shoulders and he travels in areas we know well.

By last summer as a group my kids will play at the park or school on their own (they were 11, 8, 8 and 6 at the time). They have pretty much free range around our neighbourhood (2 blocks, a school and a park, a small grocery store and bakery). With a cell phone they have a wider range although for the most part (with the exception of my oldest) I expect them to travel in pairs. My boys (12 and 9) will ride the bus to their grandmothers, bike downtown, walk the dog to the river etc together.

When my now 9 year olds are 10 we will get them started on figuring out the bussing system on their own. The whole crew has gone on a few bus adventures where they have been met at the other end (either by me or by their grandparents).

My perspective is that I can't keep them safe but I can teach them how to keep themselves safe. A confident kid who has experience navigating the world, has taken responsibility for their resources, got lots of back up plans figured out and who has learned how to problem solve, is far safer than one who has never left their yard IMO.

[Callimom]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

I assure you my kids are very independent. My dd from day one of pre k when she was 5yo told me OK mommy you can go now. The same for my ds.

I am looking for statistics right now on child abductions for the past 30 years to see if things are worse now like I think compared to the way they where when I was a child. But I am not having any luck.

Try the Free Range Kids website.

[waiflywaif]

We live in a very urban place. Lots of people, traffic, shopping, etc.

So do I, and to me it's always felt much safer than quieter suburban or rural neighborhoods. There are lots of "good" people, lots of witnesses, lots of places to get help.

[pianojazzgirl]

Originally Posted by waiflywaif

So do I, and to me it's always felt much safer than quieter suburban or rural neighborhoods. There are lots of "good" people, lots of witnesses, lots of places to get help.

Oh yes, I actually agree with you. I don't think I was very clear in my post, lol. My concern with my dd is that she is very dreamy/lost in space. I worry that she's not quite ready to be aware enough of her surroundings to navigate them safely... and I'm speaking mostly in terms of car traffic/crossing the road. I'm also worried about people stopping to "help" her, thinking she's lost or something. This has actually happened several times when she was riding ahead on her bike, or walking quite far ahead of us - maybe because it's not a residential area so people aren't used to seeing a little kid by themselves? It really freaks her out when strangers approach her like that and makes me think she's more comfortable knowing that someone else is there to swoop in and do the talking.