Has anyone ever heard this?

[Zuzu822]

I was having a discussion about carseats and someone who claims to be a tech for the police said that babies shouldn't be in convertibles (RF, of course) until they can support their own heads. Now I know many people use convertibles from day one, and based on the padding and recline of the seat, this comment males no sense. Does this have some credibility or is this guy jus misinformed? I've been doing some reading, but so far found nothing to back his up.

This really makes no sense to me. Our boys outgrew their infant seat by weight around 4-5 months and I have had any qualms about using a convertible. I know some models aren't ideal for newborns, but it was my impression it can be a valid and perfectly safe option.
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[shanniesue2]

doesn't pertain to your question... but I had a police tech tell me that it was okay to turn my son around FF (my son is 2.5 and weighs about 25 pounds). I told him that I knew the law was technically 1 and 20 but that it was far safer to keep the RF until the weight limits of the seat. He replied by telling me that 1 and 20 wasn't actually a law (I'm in Oklahoma).... is this true??? or does he just not know what the heck he's talking about??? I had a really hard time trusting his judgement after that conversation...

I guess it's kind of like how there are good doctors and doctors who don't seem to know what they're doing.

[Ninetales]

A convertible is safe from day one provided the shoulder straps are low enough that they are at or below the baby's shoulders, fits the car, and is installed properly. Some convertibles are not appropriate, but others are just fine. It has nothing to do with head control.

The law issue is not my forte, but from what I understand, most states have what is called a "proper use" law, where you are required to follow the instructions from the carseat manufacturer. And I'm pretty sure all convertible carseats on the market specify at least one year and 20 pounds (some are higher) for forward facing. Therefore, the law doesn't say 1 and 20, but that you must follow instructions, which ends up being 1 and 20.

And even then, 1 and 20 is not a maximum, it's a minimum.

[chickabiddy]

Originally Posted by shanniesue2

He replied by telling me that 1 and 20 wasn't actually a law (I'm in Oklahoma).... is this true??? or does he just not know what the heck he's talking about??? I had a really hard time trusting his judgement after that conversation...

http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...d=438589&hits=
Technically, he is correct. The Oklahoma law does not specifically require children to remain rear-facing until 1y and 20# (and, actually, I'm not aware of any state that requires that, although laws change constantly and I may have missed an update). Oklahoma law does, however, require parents to use carseats properly, which means according to manufacturers' instructions, and there is only one carseat currently on the market that allows forward-facing before 1y and 20# (it has a 20# minimum for FFing but no age restriction).

[Zuzu822]

Originally Posted by Ninetales

A convertible is safe from day one provided the shoulder straps are low enough that they are at or below the baby's shoulders, fits the car, and is installed properly. Some convertibles are not appropriate, but others are just fine. It has nothing to do with head control..

Thank you! That's what I thought!

[Marissamom]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy

http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...d=438589&hits=
Technically, he is correct. The Oklahoma law does not specifically require children to remain rear-facing until 1y and 20# (and, actually, I'm not aware of any state that requires that, although laws change constantly and I may have missed an update). Oklahoma law does, however, require parents to use carseats properly, which means according to manufacturers' instructions, and there is only one carseat currently on the market that allows forward-facing before 1y and 20# (it has a 20# minimum for FFing but no age restriction).

WA state specifies 1 and 20#

[chickabiddy]

Originally Posted by Marissamom

WA state specifies 1 and 20#

No, it does not, unless this is not the most recent legislation:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?Cite=46.61.687

[One_Girl]

It may be they are saying that from a medical perspecitve and not a car seat safety one. I have heard that babies who can't support their heads shouldn't be in upright front packs, bouncers, or exersaucers because it does something to the development of their spine, especially in the head area. That is something I would ask a pediatrician about. It being bad for development and it being safe in a car crash are really two different issues that laws don't touch on.

[ssh]

Colorado's new car seat laws effective August 1, 2010 mention "from birth until first birthday" for rear facing and the requirement is for children who weigh less than 20 lbs.. Then the go on to suggest, in a "safety advocates recommend" section, Restrain your infant in a rear-facing seat as long as possible for the best protection in a crash. “Convertible”-type car seats allow
children to ride rear-facing until 30-45 pounds." The older law also had the same requirements for RF, but the requirements for using a booster went from age 6 to until age 8.

[blessedwithboys]

What's up with the cops? Recently, someone at the PD told my friend that her barely-30#, not even 5yo ds was fine in a HB Turbobooster that allowed the lap belt to cross right above his belly button. She was also told that at his age, he didn't even really need a seat, but if she wanted to use one, the one she had him in was fine. grrr

[chickabiddy]

Police officers are trained (a little) in the law, not best practice. A 5yo/30# child is legal in a Turbobooster. A 2.5yo/25# child is legal forward-facing. These officers were correct in stating the legal minimums. Most of us want to do more than the minimums for our own children, but that's not (IMO) the purview of the police department.

[sunnygir1]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy

Police officers are trained (a little) in the law, not best practice. A 5yo/30# child is legal in a Turbobooster. A 2.5yo/25# child is legal forward-facing. These officers were correct in stating the legal minimums. Most of us want to do more than the minimums for our own children, but that's not (IMO) the purview of the police department.

Okay, perhaps, but they shouldn't be telling people that it isn't safe to have a baby in a convertible until s/he can hold her/his head up, or that it is safe to have a child in a seat belt (in any case) that goes across his/her belly instead of low on the hips. Anyone who reads a car seat manual should know that isn't safe, and all of us should know that the seatbelt should be low and tight across our hips, never over our bellies.

[chickabiddy]

I agree that they were wrong about the convertible and wrong about the belt fit, but again, most police officers are not trained in child passenger safety.

[sunnygir1]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy

I agree that they were wrong about the convertible and wrong about the belt fit, but again, most police officers are not trained in child passenger safety.

The person in the OP "claims to be a tech for the police". If that person is giving people advice about car seat and seat belt safety, they ought to be trained, or at least have read some car seat manuals.

[shanniesue2]

Originally Posted by sunnygir1

The person in the OP "claims to be a tech for the police". If that person is giving people advice about car seat and seat belt safety, they ought to be trained, or at least have read some car seat manuals.

this. If it's just your average officer and they are telling you about the law, then, yeah... I get that... but if you specifically ask to speak with one of the car seat techs and THAT officer gives misinformation or unsafe advice, I see that as a problem.

In my case, he didn't tell me I HAD to turn DS ff... just that I could. It was the part about 1 and 20# not being law that got to me... and I guess technically, he's right. If the law stipulates proper use and not an age or weight. But I would think telling someone that they didn't have to follow 1 and 20# is still at least a little irresponsible. I mean if he was going to say that that wasn't actually law, he should have followed up with a statement like, "but there is a law about using seats according to manufacturer directions and most seats come with a 1 and 20# rule." If I had been a less informed citizen that he had told 1 and 20# wasn't law... I might be walking away thinking that it's okay for babies to be ff.

[OkiMom]

I can't speak for the car seat issues but police officers aren't trained in car seat useage beyond the law, unless something has changed since I went through the training. I was taught what the law said, so when a PO tells you "thats ok" etc hes not saying safety wise. He/she is just telling you legally you are fine. There are some officers that are sent through more training but they are few and far between.