Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Ages and Stages › The Childhood Years › Afraid I'm raising a bully
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Afraid I'm raising a bully

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I got a call this week about my dd8. She has created a club at school and excluded some other girls (one in particular) which hurt her feelings. She has called the teacher a liar. Wrote inappropriate negative comments in her journals/essays. She way playing a "game" with some kids and took part in holding a girl down and taking off her shoes even after being asked to stop.What would be an appropriate response?
I would take away some privileges, but don't know what to take away. She doesn't care if she doesn't watch TV, go somewhere, etc.
I've also tried offering a reward for good behavior. She doesn't improve and says she doesn't care about the reward (staying up late, rent a movie she likes, ice cream, $5, etc)
post #2 of 20
Quote:
took part in holding a girl down and taking off her shoes even after being asked to stop.What would be an appropriate response?
That would push my buttons in a pretty major way. We DO NOT continue doing something to somebody else after they have asked us to stop, and I would be incredibly P.O.'ed if I found out one of my kids had done that. I'd want to have them write an apology letter and give it to the kid, but I wouldn't want it to be either shaming or coerced. Do you want her to make some kind of restitution to the victims? How does your daughter feel about these incidents? Is she proud, guilt-stricken, remorseful? Is there something else going on with her that is new or different (school/home/friends/routine) that might have caused her to start doing these things?

I guess my response would be that you are getting a hard-core lesson in compassion, child of mine. We are going to be all about volunteering at the soup kitchen, picking up food and delivering it to shut-ins, helping out on community clean-up days, reading or watching video documentaries about orphans of the genocide in Darfur and Cambodian children who lost legs to landmines, choosing whether we want to support Heifer International or Medicins Sans Frontiers, and we are going to be thinking about how to help take care of other people instead of pushing them down and being lame.

If you think about Kohlberg's stages of morality, there is preconventional, where kids do/don't do because they are afraid of punishment, then there is conventional, when they do/don't because they are afraid of what others will think of them, and then there's postconventional, where they have an internal ethical compass that tells them something is right or wrong to do. Many adults never get to the postconventional stage. She's certainly not there yet, and maybe for her, there's some pay-off in the "what other people think of me when I do this" that is driving the behavior.
post #3 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcparker View Post
I guess my response would be that you are getting a hard-core lesson in compassion, child of mine. We are going to be all about volunteering at the soup kitchen, picking up food and delivering it to shut-ins, helping out on community clean-up days, reading or watching video documentaries about orphans of the genocide in Darfur and Cambodian children who lost legs to landmines, choosing whether we want to support Heifer International or Medicins Sans Frontiers, and we are going to be thinking about how to help take care of other people instead of pushing them down and being lame.
Honestly, I agree with teaching the lesson of compassion. I don't think that those activities will teach the lesson of compassion to classmates tho.
post #4 of 20
Well, you know what you can do to make sure she does not hurt others if you think hard enough. And I do think we have a responsibility to make sure our kids don't grow up mean and hurtful.

I think when girls do mean things, we as adult women need to nip that in the bud.

They say that a consequence that involves work is more effective than removing privileges. If you every. time. make it not worth her while to play mean bee, she will stop. Meanwhile you are giving her messages about WHY it is important that she treat others with respect, but she is also writing long apology letters and going extra time to church or doing extra homework on ethics.

Is she in sports or something other than school? I think it would also be good to channel her interests and the basis of her gratifying feelings into something other than girl drama.

If this is a persistent problem I would consider changing her environment completely.
post #5 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpokey View Post
Well, you know what you can do to make sure she does not hurt others if you think hard enough. And I do think we have a responsibility to make sure our kids don't grow up mean and hurtful.

I think when girls do mean things, we as adult women need to nip that in the bud.
I would love to hear more specific ideas here. What does "nipping it in the bud" look like, exactly? HOW do you teach a tween empathy, not for the starving children in Africa, but for the fat girl with glasses, braces, and zits who rides the bus?

And then, even if you can get her to realize "Wow, it would probably feel pretty crappy to not have any friends," how do you get her to make the leap to CARING that the other girl doesn't have friends?

I am not trying to be snarky at all. I truly want to know!
post #6 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belia View Post
I would love to hear more specific ideas here. What does "nipping it in the bud" look like, exactly? HOW do you teach a tween empathy, not for the starving children in Africa, but for the fat girl with glasses, braces, and zits who rides the bus?

And then, even if you can get her to realize "Wow, it would probably feel pretty crappy to not have any friends," how do you get her to make the leap to CARING that the other girl doesn't have friends?

I am not trying to be snarky at all. I truly want to know!
Well ideally you start waaayyyy before they are tweens.
I think it starts by putting yourself and your kids in other people's shoes as often as possible. When they are little and there a little kids crying in the park, comments like "wow I bet they are sad they have to go" or "maybe he's afraid to go down that big slide"..."Do you remember feeling like that when you were 2?" give them perspective. Then as they get older they can start acting on that compassion. So if parents model not only thoughts but actions the kids can internalize that. If I say out loud - "wow that woman looks like she has her hands full - we could wait and hold the door for her" my kids start to make the connections between a situation and how they can help.

I also think it is important that kids feel the connection between their power and their responsibility - which is where I think volunteering comes in. A kid whose sense of self is grounded in the understanding that they are a "force for good" and that they have both the ability and the responsibility to care for others is highly unlikely imo to be either a bully or a bystander. A child whose sense of power comes from what the OP described is not going to change without shifting those perceptions dramatically.

If I were the OP I think I would set aside the idea of bribes and punishments and work on developing connections, self concept and a sense of responsibility with my kid. I would absolutely tomato stake her (keep them very close to me). I would make behaviour expectations exceedingly clear, work on a plan where the child has responsibility to do good work/make ammends and set up daily or weekly meetings with the child to follow through. I would integrate my efforts with the school which would give the child a chance to succeed and connect - perhaps with an older mentor as well as a younger child who needs help.

I would do a lot of emotional intelligence work with my daughter, particularly around identifying anger and sadness and cultivating empathy. I'd limit popular media which feeds some of this kind of behaviour. I'd also get her involved in some family-friendly connections outside of school - so perhaps some mother daughter classes with other kids, a family hiking club, a volunteer club etc where the parents can help her connect in healthy ways with other kids, model appropriate behaviour and help nip powerstruggles in the bud early on.

And I agree with the PP that if I didn't see some fairly remarkable shifts fairly quickly I would change her environment completely.

Good luck OP
Karen
post #7 of 20
I would tell her that the girl she bullied was her new best friend. Then make it happen. A very public apology would go a long way I think.
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miasmamma View Post
I would tell her that the girl she bullied was her new best friend. Then make it happen. A very public apology would go a long way I think.
I don't know if I recommend this...it could make things MUCH worse for the girl who was bullied eventually (i.e. when parents and teachers aren't looking). From what I understand, involving the bullied in the bullies punishment/consequences can very often backfire. Although I haven't been in this situation myself so I can't say for sure.
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooshersmama View Post
I don't know if I recommend this...it could make things MUCH worse for the girl who was bullied eventually (i.e. when parents and teachers aren't looking). From what I understand, involving the bullied in the bullies punishment/consequences can very often backfire. Although I haven't been in this situation myself so I can't say for sure.
I agree
If the bullied child was mine I doubt I would want my child to be used as a tool and made responsible for helping to reform the bully. The school should have an intervention and prevention program.

OP after re-reading your post I think I would get counselling services for your child sooner rather than later.

You might also read Barbara Coloroso's The bully, the bullied and the bystander and the Queen Bees book.
post #10 of 20
Counseling and making sure the school staff severely punishes her. I would be so embarrassed/ashamed if my child did that to another,and I would tell my child exactly that. Also, I would not let my child participate in any activities she/he enjoyed for quite some time.

I would be furious if I was the held-down child's parent.Having had my own children hurt by others I can not express how painful it is. I would NOT want a bully forced to sit and/or be nice to my child. I want them far away from my child,and punished if they hurt my child again.

I hope you find something that helps.It is no fun being the parent on either side of bullying.I am glad you are trying to nip it.So many parents just ignore bullying,and believe it or not the little stuff does hurt a bullied child for a very long time.
post #11 of 20
There are a couple of things I just wanted to mention, based on my own experience with my DS (9).

We had a call last year from the school, because DS was bullying someone...him and another boy were putting a third boy in a garbage can. The third boy was asking them to stop and was quite visibly upset. DS was taken to the principal who spoke to him about it, and wanted him to apologize, which DS didn't think he needed to do. They took away his recess for however many days, but the principal called me so that I could talk to him about it as well. When i got the call, I was absolutely floored! I had never witnessed DS bullying someone before, and I had often watched him play...many times without him knowing! He usually plays with anyone and everyone who will play with him. I was trying to think of anything that could have happened that would make him act out this way. It just didn't seem like something that he would do: targeting someone like that! I asked DH to "do bedtime" that night (1/2 hour of quiet reading/chatting time in bed), because he can quite often get to the bottom of things easier that I can. DS explained that the three boys were all taking turns being put in the garbage can, and were having a great time. The third boy decided at some point in the middle of the game that he didn't want to play anymore, but DS (and I assume the other boy) wouldn't stop. A-ha, I thought! This has been a recurring theme and something that DS has always struggled with, and we have learned ourselves that when he gets wound up, it is difficult to get him stopped. This rang true to me! It still looks like bullying, and this doesn't by any means make it ok, but it puts a whole different spin on what happened, and needs to be dealt with in a different way! He either couldn't stop, or didn't understand the "stop sign," and didn't feel an apology was necessary because in his mind they didn't do anything wrong...they were all playing the game! Since this incident (but not because of), DS has had a PDD-NOS diagnosis, which makes this and a few other "smaller" incidents sort of understandable. We know where he's coming from now, and we know that he needs a lot of coaching to see the things that other kids naturally pick up on.

That might not be what you're dealing with...I'm just saying make sure you take everything into consideration, and listen to what your heart tells you about your DD. You know her. Although it looks like bullying (which I think of as looking for a target and going after them), there may be some other circumstances and therefore a different approach to the problem. Just my two cents! Good luck!

For DS's first few years of school, he was apparently (although no one thought to mention it to me) sort of tagged as a potential bully by the teachers. I honestly only heard about a couple of instances, so nothing really serious, but he was treated as an "offender." This year, now with a diagnosis, he still has some of the same issues going on, but it's dealt with differently and more effectively, for him, anyway. A little more of a supportive approach rather than punitive.
post #12 of 20
With a child this young I think it is developmentally normal to not care about another girl's feelings. I think it's developmentally normal to be empathetic also, but I don't see a need to get into that kind of training. It can be a long term solution but you don't send your kid out to do damage until they figure out kindness on their own. Some kids can put themselves in another's shoes; some can't yet. She can think anything she wants about the other girls in her environment but she is not allowed to ACT on it in that way. And that she will follow the rules of polite society, even if she does not particularly care about the ideals behind them. If we all stood up for politeness, the girls would realize that there is no gain to the game. Unfortunately many moms and bystanders do not value enforcing these rules on children.

My daughter is usually very sweet and empathetic but can turn snarky at unpredictable times. I come down on her like a ton of bricks. I will do it discretely, pull her aside and whisper to her, but if she persists I do not hide a thing and she will be removed with full explanation of why, if it doesn't stop.

However I will be out socializing with some other families and one of the kids will start putting down someone and the other mom will just let it happen. I don't really understand it. I would not sit around and listen to my daughter call someone stupid and ridicule their likes and dislikes in front of me. I think once some families let it go on they get desensitized to it.
post #13 of 20
Hugs, mama!

Lots of good advice on this thread, so I'd also like to recommend 2 books:

"The Bully, the Bullied and the Bystander,"
http://www.amazon.com/Bully-Bullied-...7872911&sr=8-1

and "Hold On to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More than Peers."
http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Your-Kids...7872989&sr=1-1
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Counseling and making sure the school staff severely punishes her. I would be so embarrassed/ashamed if my child did that to another,and I would tell my child exactly that. Also, I would not let my child participate in any activities she/he enjoyed for quite some time.

I would be furious if I was the held-down child's parent.


Have you set up a meeting with the school?
If not I would do that ASAP

I would demand that counseling take place in the school and I would also do private. I would do NO activities until there are major change that both you and the school see.
post #15 of 20
The book Nurture Shock has an interesting chapter on bullying and social behavior.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaM View Post
I would take away some privileges, but don't know what to take away.
I think this kind of behavior requires a much more systemic response than just taking away privileges.
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraLoo View Post
Hugs, mama!

Lots of good advice on this thread, so I'd also like to recommend 2 books:

"The Bully, the Bullied and the Bystander,"
http://www.amazon.com/Bully-Bullied-...7872911&sr=8-1

and "Hold On to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More than Peers."
http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Your-Kids...7872989&sr=1-1
YES YES YES! You really need to read "Hold On To Your Kids" ASAP! What you are describing is literally "textbook" example of the issues this book deals with. The chapter on bullying would help you so much, but the concept of the whole book--that kids need to be more connected to their parents than to their peers, will suit any family.
post #18 of 20
My concern is that if your daughter's behavior toward others suddenly hardened, that she may have been a victim of abuse without you knowing about it. Unless there is another obvious trigger for her insecurities, I would consider the possibility that someone may have hurt her.
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thank you for the suggestions.

I just got another call from the school today. My DD stole someone's snack at recess and hid behind a tree and ate it with 2 other girls.
post #20 of 20
Does the school have a school psychologist on hand? If so, does your daughter have weekly meetings with her/him?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: The Childhood Years
Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Ages and Stages › The Childhood Years › Afraid I'm raising a bully