I told him I want to separate, he doesn't want to. What now??

[monkeybum]

So I finally got up the courage to tell DH I wanted to separate, and came to terms with (and accepted) being a single mom, but he won't go. He says he can't afford to live on his own, and doesn't want to. He says separating is too much of an inconvenience.

I am the primary breadwinner and support us financially, (he earns a modest income) and I can afford to keep the family home (he couldn't, and wouldn't want to). And he has a lot of perks financially by being married to me. We would both have to alter our standard of living - obviously - if we separate, and he doesn't want to do that.

He has told me many times that he does not love me, that he is in this marriage because it makes sense for him financially, and he is not very caring or nice to me or the kids. (I have a 3 and 6 year old). He's told me before that he thinks he'd be happiest living on his own, but now that I am telling him to go, he won't.

What the heck do I do now? I gave him some suggestions for how we could make it as minimal impact on the kids as possible, and how he could make it work financially, but he just kept saying he doesn't want to.

He just kept saying "make me a list of what to do differently and I'll do it". I told him that is the whole point, I shouldn't have to tell him how to love his wife and kids and be nice to us!

We've had this "I'm not happy any more" (me) and his "I'll change" conversation many times over the last few years and I've come to accept that he will never change, but I've also come to accept that I need more, and my kids will be better off if DH and I live apart.

So...what do you do if you want to separate (and stay in the house) but he doesn't? I can't really force him to move out, and I don't want to put the kids through the drama of me and them moving out...

[Lisa1970]

See a lawyer Monday and get a court order to make him leave the family home pending the divorce. I don't know about the laws in your state though. But I do know that he does not have to consent to a divorce for you to divorce him.

[NolaRiordan]

Here you would file for sole use of the property pending a divorce settlement. So you both work outside the home? If so I think you could do this. If he's a SAHD you may have trouble arguing that he should be the one to leave the marital residence.

[singin'intherain]

He doesn't get to make the decision that you guys are going to stay together. It doesn't work that way. Don't let him bully you with his obstinance. It sounds like he's been doing that for a while. Your family court might have a facilitator that you can talk to about what kind of paperwork you need to file for divorce and get a court order removing him from the property. I'm sure you're not the first person to have an ex who refuses to leave. If you can afford it, a lawyer is probably going to be the most helpful. As a pp said, the only glitch I can see here is if he is the kids' primary caregiver, the tables may be turned. But it sounds like he's not doing primary care, if you say he's not civil to them.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by monkeybum

I shouldn't have to tell him how to love his wife and kids and be nice to us!

Having been to marriage counselor.. it is okay to ask for what you need. Men are not mind readers. Sometimes, they really don't know what you need.. you have to tell them.

That said, change the locks and leave his luggage packed by the door. Call the police if he gets violent. Is the house in your name? I hope so.

Oh, and if he can prove he's been a good stay at home dad.. you may end up paying him spousal support. This happened to a girlfriend of mine recently.

[SummerLove]

I'm not in the exact same situation, but this is happening to me too.. I am done, he is not, he won't leave.

[pregnant@40]

Have you guys tried counseling? Are you sure there is 100% no way your marriage can turn around?

[Smithie]

You need a divorce lawyer yesterday. You need expert advice on how to proceed to retain custody of your children, avoid paying spousal support, etc. Changing the locks and leaving a suitcase on the door is a tempting prospect, but may not be a good idea depending on how these things typically play out in your area. You need expert advice. A lawyer will what to say and what to file so that you can legally eject him from the family residence during the divorce proceedings.

Personally, I'm hugely in favor of selling the "family" home when the family breaks up. I think it's very helpful in setting healthy new boundaries (especially for the boundary-impaired) and establishing a new starting point for the coparenting relationship. So if you do wind up selling the house and diving the $$$ as part of the divorce settlement, I hope you won't look at that as a failure.

[EdnaMarie]

I agree with Smithie, especially if he's a SAHD.

My husband does not believe we're separating as I agreed to stay here for the stability of the kids. So he keeps wanting to have sex, be together, etc. I've decided to stay as he's leaving in a week and then will be deployed, but it really sucks. I'm sorry you're in that situation. They really want to force us to make a big drama!

[monkeybum]

Thanks mammas. He is not the violent type, just lazy, selfish, self-absorbed, greedy and controlling in a passive-aggressive way. We actually have a very cordial relationship and I do respect him in many ways and wouldn't want to literally "throw" him out on the front step. We've actually had the conversation a few times about him moving out and he says he'd be happiest to do that. However, I think when it became a reality, and he'd crunched the numbers he decided it was much easier for him to stay.

I just ticks me off b/c now he's all "I love you" "let's not do this" (then turns around and is totally inconsiderate and unkind to me). I know it's not genuine, so it's just plain annoying.

We were going to separate 3 years ago, but went to counseling and didn't. But he didn't change. Then we went again a year ago, but he didn't change (well he did for a week but it doesn't last). Then we went again 6 months ago, again only lasted a week. We went again a month ago, and again no change. This is why I've come to realize he will never change. And he's quite open about only being in the marriage for financial reasons, which is why he cannot change - his heart isn't in it. But I can't stand living in this loveless marriage any more with this selfish, self absorbed lazy, rude, annoying, greedy man.

I think I will take your advice and get professional advice. I truly believe he will be happier on his own, and I truly believe that will make everyone involved happier, including the kids.

I think I just need him to realize he can make it on his own and he will feel ok to do so. Ugh. I hate all this.

[*MamaJen*]

Get thee to a lawyer pronto.
Trust me, you're not by any means the first woman on this board to be married to a selfish, self-absorbed, controlling freeloader. Guys like that don't respectfully walk out of your life. You are going to need super strong boundaries and a solid sense of self in the next few months, and you're going to have to tell him in crystal clear terms that things are over between you. Practice using your voice. And yes, you will need a lawyer.
One thing that I really had to remind myself of over and over: it's OKAY to divorce someone. It's especially okay to break up with someone who is semi-abusive and clearly using you. And what's more, at this point he does not get a say in the decision. He had his chance, he blew it, and you are allowed to divorce him --legally and ethically -- without his consent. And the way he feels about it is not your problem. You don't have to make him feel good about getting a divorce. This is not about his ego.
Also, have you checked out any books like Co-dependent No More? I found it really helpful.

[ThirdEyeMom]

Originally Posted by *MamaJen*

Get thee to a lawyer pronto.
Trust me, you're not by any means the first woman on this board to be married to a selfish, self-absorbed, controlling freeloader. Guys like that don't respectfully walk out of your life. You are going to need super strong boundaries and a solid sense of self in the next few months, and you're going to have to tell him in crystal clear terms that things are over between you. Practice using your voice. And yes, you will need a lawyer.
One thing that I really had to remind myself of over and over: it's OKAY to divorce someone. It's especially okay to break up with someone who is semi-abusive and clearly using you. And what's more, at this point he does not get a say in the decision. He had his chance, he blew it, and you are allowed to divorce him --legally and ethically -- without his consent. And the way he feels about it is not your problem. You don't have to make him feel good about getting a divorce. This is not about his ego.
Also, have you checked out any books like Co-dependent No More? I found it really helpful.

That. Wish I said it. Monkeybum, your husband IS abusive and has been for a long time. How do I know? I went through the same thing and took it for years. MamaJean has recommended a book. Wish I had read something like that. "He had his chance, he blew it, and you are allowed to divorce him --legally and ethically -- without his consent. And the way he feels about it is not your problem." I see that you are trying to please your husband with nothing in return, which is exactly what I did for years. I lived in the dreaminess that if I did MORE, he'd get over whatever was going on with him. He is not going to change. He has no reason to. I don't believe in divorce as a personal belief, but I had to change my attitude about it. Therapy taught me that leopards don't change their spots on their own. I also learned that I was confusing his intelligence with his emotions, This caused me to justify his behaviors.

I am one of the "you're not by any means the first woman on this board to be married to a selfish, self-absorbed, controlling freeloader. Guys like that don't respectfully walk out of your life." This isn't going to be an easy road as you venture away from your marriage, but in the end, when you are through the worse of it, you'll see that it is all part of the building process for a better life with your children.

One thing to be alert about, in your future be prepared for dealing with him as it pertains to your children, how he treats them and what he might tell them about the divorce. It will be your fault, you know, and he'll tell anyone who listens. That is what the self-absorbed do. Just always hold your head high. Be respectful but not engaging (meaning don't get into it with him, friends, family about him.) I have recently found out that dxh has been bashing me for a very long time. This is so odd--not really!--since he married a second time and is supposedly happily married, yet he bashes me to our daughter. Second wife has a fabulous job, buys him everything he wants, and he doesn't work now. She has had to put everything in her name because of his credit. To ensure his dependancy he has now used any physical and emotional ailment to apply for SSDI. (Tried three times, so far, and they turn him down.--He is very healthy!) What he found in his next marriage is another woman who guarantees his dependancy by "taking care of him". Do you see how it never stops?

Didn't want to scare you or give you more to deal with in my post. Just file it away under "things in the future". Just concentrate on the legal and emotional stuff you need to do now.

[motherhendoula]

wow - why did i think i was the only woman who had 'that guy' for an ex-husband? - i finally left 10 yrs ago with a 6 yr old DD and 3yr old DS...i DID NOT see a lawyer, or have an inkling that this man was emotionally abusive - so i let him have the house- i moved into one bedroom apt with both kids...since that time he has gone through several women who he assumes will work and care for him...he has gone through loooong periods of unemployment, funny how CS payments are less but he has $ for cigarettes, $ for the most up to date phone, videogames, etc....
IF I HAD HAD A LAWYER - i would be making a $1200 mortgage payment every month - instead of paying $2000 / month in rent...(i live on long island- real estate is crazy)
i had NO $ for a lawyer - what i didnt know was that many will bill you, instead of requiring a retainer- that first session with a lawyer is always free - GO! get this guy out of your life and out of your house.

[knitterma]

Originally Posted by monkeybum

He just kept saying "make me a list of what to do differently and I'll do it". I told him that is the whole point, I shouldn't have to tell him how to love his wife and kids and be nice to us!

That sounds exactly like my ex-husband! He wouldn't move out either. Eventually I had to move out with the kids; it was the only way. I would definitely recommend visiting a lawyer. Good luck to you! You deserve better.

[doubledutch]

i've read this thread multiple times and had to think about my answer (which is weird because i was in the EXACT same position, with the exact same guy).

i had to move out (with my kids). it was the only way to separate. not true - the other only way is to divorce, but you don't want to be living under the same roof as this guy during your divorce . . . that could take a long time and be very unpleasant and unhealthy for you and your kids. anyway, we left. after about a month i started getting itchy about paying all his bills (i call them "his" since we weren't even living there). i was ready to inform him that i would stop making all utility payments and he would need to either apply for and open accounts in his own name, or move out. i consulted a lawyer to make sure this was okay legally. then he decided to move out. it took him a month or so. after he moved out, i spent a couple (maybe a few?) weeks getting the house cleaned up before we moved back in. all together, we were displaced from our home for three months. now we're back home, and he has an apartment, but because we're not divorced yet - he could legally come back to our house and i wouldn't be able to do anything about it. the only way i could make sure he couldn't move back in, would be if he were violent or threatened violence and i got an order for protection.

you don't need to convince him that he can make it on his own, or make him feel good about this, or take responsibility for him in ANY WAY.

and i agree that you should NOT have to tell him how to be nice to his wife and children. people should definitely be open and honest and direct about their needs and wants - but nobody should have to request that their spouse treat them and their children with basic human decency. stbx tried to guilt me by saying i never told him what he was doing wrong. for one thing, that's not true, but for another, bottom line, it goes without saying that lying is unacceptable. it goes without saying that emotional/verbal abuse is unacceptable. really.

[doubledutch]

looking back at my situation from here, i guess the other thing i could have done was, at the time of splitting up, give stbx the option of either moving OR taking over the expenses of maintaining the home. i still would have paid our mortgage because i wouldn't want that to get messed up, but he'd have to cover trash, water, gas, electricity, etc by setting up *new accounts* in his name only, if he wanted to stay, because if i moved out i'd be calling and putting all my accounts on hold. ditto if we had house phone, cable/satellite, internet.

when i first left, i didn't think i could do that because i thought it would be abandonment or financial abuse or something. the lawyer said no way, it wouldn't be, because the kids were in my care primarily, and he is responsible for his bills and for his child-related expenses (like groceries, diapers) for the times when he has the kids. and he had a small income as well.

if your stbx can't handle taking on the expenses of staying in your home during the separation, then he needs to be the one to leave. and give it a deadline. like, "we will be separating as of nov 15. are you going to leave, or are you going to take over utilities and other bills?" and be prepared to leave as of that date.

what is your childcare situation?