Kindergarten Options

[thatgirliknew]

I have joint custody of my 4-year-old son. He splits his time equally between his dad and me. There are a million reasons that I unhappy with this, but I can't change it. The custody arrangement has caused nothing but heartache for myself and my son. He is, literally, depressed and anxious. He doesn't like being around groups of kids (or adults). I would LOVE to homeschool him, but his dad says no.

So, we put him in Preschool this year. He is miserable. It breaks my heart everyday to send him because he is in tears, still, even though we are three months into school. I had a parent teacher conference yesterday and she said we need to start exploring options for Kindergarten. She suggested he would do very well in a highly structured environment. His therapist also seems to think this. That is totally the opposite of what I wish for my son. I hate public schools and don't like the highly structured environments. But is it possible that he might REALLY need that?

I live in a large school district that offers many choices for elementary ranging from Traditional schools (his teachers suggestion), Montessori schools (his therapists suggestion), Waldorf-inspired (one of my top picks), Self-Directed Learning (inter-age classrooms, child-directed learning, no tests, schedules, etc & it is the top school in the county and makes the US Weekly list of top schools), and then many other schools that I am not too interested in. Then there is the school he goes to now, which is nothing special, just an average school.

So I want some advice on whether I should keep him in his current school that he hates just so he doesn't have to start over next year, or go to a structured school like Traditional or Montessori, or go to a more free school Waldorf or Self Directed.

His teacher and therapist seems to think that the more "open" schools are going to be more overwhelming to him because of the lack of guidance. I am wondering if the more structured schools are going to be more overwhelming because he will have to adjust to the schedules, rules, uniforms, etc.

Anybody have any experiences similar to mine? Advice?

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by thatgirliknew

So, we put him in Preschool this year. He is miserable. It breaks my heart everyday to send him because he is in tears, still, even though we are three months into school. I had a parent teacher conference yesterday and she said we need to start exploring options for Kindergarten. She suggested he would do very well in a highly structured environment. His therapist also seems to think this. That is totally the opposite of what I wish for my son. I hate public schools and don't like the highly structured environments. But is it possible that he might REALLY need that?

I live in a large school district that offers many choices for elementary ranging from Traditional schools (his teachers suggestion), Montessori schools (his therapists suggestion), Waldorf-inspired (one of my top picks), Self-Directed Learning (inter-age classrooms, child-directed learning, no tests, schedules, etc & it is the top school in the county and makes the US Weekly list of top schools), and then many other schools that I am not too interested in. Then there is the school he goes to now, which is nothing special, just an average school.

So I want some advice on whether I should keep him in his current school that he hates just so he doesn't have to start over next year, or go to a structured school like Traditional or Montessori, or go to a more free school Waldorf or Self Directed.

His teacher and therapist seems to think that the more "open" schools are going to be more overwhelming to him because of the lack of guidance. I am wondering if the more structured schools are going to be more overwhelming because he will have to adjust to the schedules, rules, uniforms, etc.

Anybody have any experiences similar to mine? Advice?

I'd move him now; what can be worse than misery? We were in the situation last year where ds was having a horrid time in K, but we didn't know what else to do (undiagnosed ADHD/Asperger's). After searching around I found a charter school that is more geared to his interests and also happens to know how to work with his disabilities. When we asked ds if it bothered him to leave his old school, he asked if he could start the new one today. With all the problems he had at his own school it made me anxious just to drive by so my mom could see it.

Ds needs a lot of structure and clear rules to operate at his best. He knows exactly what he will wear everyday. His behavior in class improved once the school stopped changing the schedule around; his behavior was worse on evaluation days where the schedule was altered for testing.

Anxiety is a general term for several disorders that cause nervousness, fear, apprehension, and worrying; anxiety needs to be met with predictability.

[lauren]

It is true for many kids with anxiety that a more structured program can lead to a better experience. Too much unpredictability can lead to more anxiety. There are some folks whose children experienced Waldorf as overwhelming because there was less guidance around managing peer issues and groups, in accordance with Waldorf philosophy. Also Waldorf is not known for managing children with special needs well, and many in the Waldorf community will admit that. I have known many children personally that had similar issues that did well in a Montessori type environment.

[thatgirliknew]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

I'd move him now; what can be worse than misery? We were in the situation last year where ds was having a horrid time in K, but we didn't know what else to do (undiagnosed ADHD/Asperger's). After searching around I found a charter school that is more geared to his interests and also happens to know how to work with his disabilities. When we asked ds if it bothered him to leave his old school, he asked if he could start the new one today. With all the problems he had at his own school it made me anxious just to drive by so my mom could see it.

Ds needs a lot of structure and clear rules to operate at his best. He knows exactly what he will wear everyday. His behavior in class improved once the school stopped changing the schedule around; his behavior was worse on evaluation days where the schedule was altered for testing.

Anxiety is a general term for several disorders that cause nervousness, fear, apprehension, and worrying; anxiety needs to be met with predictability.

Unfortunately, we can't move him now. While it's nice that our school systems offers a lot of choices, they are also really inflexible. If we did a mid-year transfer, we would not necessarily end up somewhere better. They start taking applications for each school in like January and they are notorious for not giving people their choice of schools (we're asked to pick 4 and something like 15% or so didn't get ANY of their four choices). It gets really confusing. BUT anyway, we are trying to make sure we know where he is going to go BEFORE the application period starts so that we can turn it in the same day. And there is no money for private school. And I thought about pulling him out all together (since PK isn't mandatory), but I'm afraid that would make it worse since I'm going to have to send him again next year.

Oh, and he wasn't diagnosed with anxiety. The therapist said he's a "classic case of preschool depression." Which still sucks. I wish there was more I could do. His dad won't take him to therapy and won't listen to ways to make my son's life easier. As SOON as I get the money I am fighting to get custody changed because his dad does not have his best interest in mind.

[Peony]

Originally Posted by lauren

It is true for many kids with anxiety that a more structured program can lead to a better experience. Too much unpredictability can lead to more anxiety. There are some folks whose children experienced Waldorf as overwhelming because there was less guidance around managing peer issues and groups, in accordance with Waldorf philosophy. Also Waldorf is not known for managing children with special needs well, and many in the Waldorf community will admit that. I have known many children personally that had similar issues that did well in a Montessori type environment.

I very much agree.

I have an anxious child, I did not think she would do well with all these guidelines and structure, she thrives on it actually. It was the best thing I ever did, putting her into a more structured school setting. She knows what to expect, she is a model student there and adores her school.

Both of my girls actually attempted preschool in a Waldorf setting and while I like the idea of it, the reality is that it does not work well for their personalities. They do need clear expectations. DD2 who did not have separation/anxiety issues did in that setting because of the lack of structure.

[thatgirliknew]

Originally Posted by lauren

It is true for many kids with anxiety that a more structured program can lead to a better experience. Too much unpredictability can lead to more anxiety. There are some folks whose children experienced Waldorf as overwhelming because there was less guidance around managing peer issues and groups, in accordance with Waldorf philosophy. Also Waldorf is not known for managing children with special needs well, and many in the Waldorf community will admit that. I have known many children personally that had similar issues that did well in a Montessori type environment.

I wasn't really sure if the structure would stress him more or relieve him. So maybe i should start trying to narrow down the more structured schools down to try to find one I dont absolutely hate

[meetoo]

Originally Posted by thatgirliknew

Oh, and he wasn't diagnosed with anxiety. The therapist said he's a "classic case of preschool depression." Which still sucks. I wish there was more I could do. His dad won't take him to therapy and won't listen to ways to make my son's life easier. As SOON as I get the money I am fighting to get custody changed because his dad does not have his best interest in mind.

I would pull him out and apply for the Montessori, using the traditional public as your back up. I would explain to him that preschool is optional but K he will have to go to. Three months is plenty of time for him to have adjusted and if he is going to be switching schools anyway whats the point of keeping him in that on? Is he on the young end for his grade? Maybe you could even buy yourself 2 more years by delaying entry to K an extra year. Basically it sounds like he is not going to be happy in school for the time being so why force him to go before you absolutely have to.

One thing I would do though, is try to get him on a bit ahead academic wise. I normally am not big on academics for preschoolers, but if you know he has to go to school per your custody arrangement, and you know school is going ot be hard on him emotionally, it might be a good idea to make sure he is ahead academically. At least he can start school feeling very confident there and his hopefully his emotional issues won't effect his school performance as much. .

What a tough situation.

[whatsnextmom]

I agree with the high structure needs of some kids. My youngest is this way. He's not particularly anxious..... He just either doesn't know what to do in unstructured environments and so vegetates or he gets so wound up with the social aspect that he's literally bouncing off the walls. When he was little, I even had to structure home and THAT was hard lol. However, he was just happier when lunch came at the exact same time everyday. He was happier knowing that 3 days a week, he'd come home from preschool and watch 20 minutes of Mr. Rodgers. He would only go one place to get his hair cut. He wanted routine and stability. Not that he's 10, he still does better with "strict" teachers and orderly classes but he has the self-control and confidence for those crazy environments too.

[thatgirliknew]

Originally Posted by meetoo

I would pull him out and apply for the Montessori, using the traditional public as your back up. I would explain to him that preschool is optional but K he will have to go to. Three months is plenty of time for him to have adjusted and if he is going to be switching schools anyway whats the point of keeping him in that on? Is he on the young end for his grade? Maybe you could even buy yourself 2 more years by delaying entry to K an extra year. Basically it sounds like he is not going to be happy in school for the time being so why force him to go before you absolutely have to.

One thing I would do though, is try to get him on a bit ahead academic wise. I normally am not big on academics for preschoolers, but if you know he has to go to school per your custody arrangement, and you know school is going ot be hard on him emotionally, it might be a good idea to make sure he is ahead academically. At least he can start school feeling very confident there and his hopefully his emotional issues won't effect his school performance as much. .

What a tough situation.

I would love to pull him out now. But unfortunately, his dad has half the say. And no matter how often the teacher or I talk to him, he doesn't see the problem. Or maybe he does and it's just more "convenient" for him to put my son in school. I'm afraid that if I pull him out, his dad will do something stupid like call CPS (which he has done over numerous dumb things before like a diaper rash, owning dogs, living with my parents a couple years ago) or sue for custody because he actually has the money for a lawyer and I don't.

He is in a mixed 3-4 classroom. So he's not the youngest, but he won't turn 5 until May. And academically, he is ahead. He's learning a few things here and there, but mostly we thought putting him in this year would get him ready for when he actually HAD to go to school. Bad idea I guess.

This whole things is just so overwhelming...

[lauren]

Does your ex also drop him off to see how unhappy he is at drop off? Is there anyway someone could video tape him when he is having a hard time (assuming you mean crying and/or not playing with others, etc.) On the other hand, if he is going to k-garten next year and having this hard of a time, it does seem like he should be in some kind of program. Don't you also have half the say as well? Should the two of you seek mediation (assuming this is less expensive than a lawyer)?

[Greenmama2]

Originally Posted by thatgirliknew

I live in a large school district that offers many choices for elementary ranging from Traditional schools (his teachers suggestion), Montessori schools (his therapists suggestion), Waldorf-inspired (one of my top picks), Self-Directed Learning (inter-age classrooms, child-directed learning, no tests, schedules, etc & it is the top school in the county and makes the US Weekly list of top schools), and then many other schools that I am not too interested in.

Putting my cards on the table I am an avowed homeschooler, unschooling my 4 year old and I love Waldorf stuff. Buuuuuuuuuuut, given what you describe of your situation I would look into Montessori. Montessori is structured but child-led if that makes any sense. If indeed he finds comfort in structure he will find that but you can relax knowing that he will progress through the structure at his own pace.

Originally Posted by lauren

Does your ex also drop him off to see how unhappy he is at drop off? Is there anyway someone could video tape him when he is having a hard time (assuming you mean crying and/or not playing with others, etc.) On the other hand, if he is going to k-garten next year and having this hard of a time, it does seem like he should be in some kind of program. Don't you also have half the say as well? Should the two of you seek mediation (assuming this is less expensive than a lawyer)?

ITA with this. I take it K is not compulsory in some parts of the US? If he's really struggling it might be possible to convince the powers that be (family court judge?) that homeschool for K would give him time to emotionally adjust to 50/50 custody and prepare for school life in 1st.

[CarrieMF]

Can you find a different playschool for him?

My youngest hated playschool. Her first year she never cried at drop off but most days(she went 1 day a week for 2 hours) she was crying or upset when I picked her up. Her 2nd year she didn't cry but she didn't like going either.

She has mild SPD & the loudness of the kids bothered her alot. Her first year if they sang songs(even twinkle, twinkle) they had to take her out of the room becuase she'd cry so hard. Sounds are a big issue for her. The playschool was structured to a point. In the 2 hours they'd have free time, circle time, snack time, craft time, game time, more free time. It was a very busy 2 hours.

When she had her practice day for kindergarten I was concerned. I had no idea how this was going to go as their practice day was 10-12 preschool kids PLUS the regular kindergarten class of approx 17-19 kids. She went to her practice day with the same class that her sister was in so she did know someone. However we'd been in this class before for hot lunches & it was a very very very busy & LOUD class. I couldn't handle sitting in there long enough to eat lunch, much less leaving my SPD to sounds & lots of movement/busy kids child in there for 2.5 hours.

She LOVED it. Said it was way better than playschool. Even though there were more kids it was more structured than playschool was. It was no fault of the playschool. It was the same school & teachers that my other 2 kids had when they were in playschool & they had no issues.

[LynnS6]

I have an anxious kid with sensory issues. He does great in our public school precisely because the day is so structured. He'd also do well in a Montessori environment. He'd be MISERABLE in a Waldorf environment.

He's in 4th grade now and has really thrived. I made sure that the local school knew that he needed a calm, structured teacher, and that's exactly what he got for first and second grade. Third grade was a good 'transition' year -- he got a calm teacher who was a little less structured. This year he's got a structured teacher who's not so calm. But each year, it's been the right teacher for him -- his teacher this year is really pushing him to achieve his best. He needs that. She's also warm and funny, but absolutely no nonsense.

For an anxious child, I would say that a school with a consistent structure, an excellent discipline record and a good staff is what you need to look for. While I understand that Waldorf would be your choice, sometimes you have to educate the child you have. I see a lot of parents making the mistake of choosing the school that would appeal to the parent, and not necessarily the one that is right for the child.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by thatgirliknew

she said we need to start exploring options for Kindergarten. She suggested he would do very well in a highly structured environment. His therapist also seems to think this. That is totally the opposite of what I wish for my son. I hate public schools and don't like the highly structured environments. But is it possible that he might REALLY need that?

yes, it is totally possible that what is best for him, the environment where he can thrive and blossom, isn't the one that you would pick for yourself.

Is it possible to switch him to a different style of preschool for this year?

What would it take for you to feel positive about him being in preschool this year? He will have an easier time if he senses that MOMMY thinks preschool is a good thing and that he is capable of being successful there.

[thatgirliknew]

Originally Posted by lauren

Does your ex also drop him off to see how unhappy he is at drop off? Is there anyway someone could video tape him when he is having a hard time (assuming you mean crying and/or not playing with others, etc.) On the other hand, if he is going to k-garten next year and having this hard of a time, it does seem like he should be in some kind of program. Don't you also have half the say as well? Should the two of you seek mediation (assuming this is less expensive than a lawyer)?

Yes. His dad takes him in the mornings. I asked him if he does that at his house and he said "Yes. I just tell him to stop crying because he has to go to school. He'll get over it."

I could record the going to school on my phone, but as far as IN the classroom, I am not sure how much the teacher would get involved. I doubt he would go to mediation. But I am really trying to get him to do co-parenting sessions with my son's therapist. I figure since I have to share custody, I might as well try to get him to improve as a dad instead of battling him all the time.

It just upsets me because his dad does what's best/easiest for him, NOT what's best for his son. I can't believe he won't acknowledge how badly his son is hurting. And it kinda sabotages everything I do here at my house with gentle discipline and working on our feelings, routines, etc, when nothing happens at his dad's.

[thatgirliknew]

Originally Posted by Greenmama2

Putting my cards on the table I am an avowed homeschooler, unschooling my 4 year old and I love Waldorf stuff. Buuuuuuuuuuut, given what you describe of your situation I would look into Montessori. Montessori is structured but child-led if that makes any sense. If indeed he finds comfort in structure he will find that but you can relax knowing that he will progress through the structure at his own pace.


ITA with this. I take it K is not compulsory in some parts of the US? If he's really struggling it might be possible to convince the powers that be (family court judge?) that homeschool for K would give him time to emotionally adjust to 50/50 custody and prepare for school life in 1st.

I would LOVE to homeschool. It would be the best thing for my son I think. He could still have opportunities for socializing on HIS terms without it making him cry. But since I am not seeing that happening, I REALLY hope I can get his dad agree to montessori and get him approved.

He is in preschool now. It is NOT mandatory. Technically, I don't HAVE to send him until he is 6, but then he would just have to go to Kindergarten at age 6.

I've contacted Legal Aid for my city, and they said they don't deal with custody cases at all. But they do have some sliding-fee scale lawyers who do. I'm drowning right now, but when taxes come I am going to try to use that money for a income-based lawyer. Hopefully, this time the judge will see this arrangement is too stressful for such a young child

[thatgirliknew]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

Can you find a different playschool for him?

My youngest hated playschool. Her first year she never cried at drop off but most days(she went 1 day a week for 2 hours) she was crying or upset when I picked her up. Her 2nd year she didn't cry but she didn't like going either.

She has mild SPD & the loudness of the kids bothered her alot. Her first year if they sang songs(even twinkle, twinkle) they had to take her out of the room becuase she'd cry so hard. Sounds are a big issue for her. The playschool was structured to a point. In the 2 hours they'd have free time, circle time, snack time, craft time, game time, more free time. It was a very busy 2 hours.

When she had her practice day for kindergarten I was concerned. I had no idea how this was going to go as their practice day was 10-12 preschool kids PLUS the regular kindergarten class of approx 17-19 kids. She went to her practice day with the same class that her sister was in so she did know someone. However we'd been in this class before for hot lunches & it was a very very very busy & LOUD class. I couldn't handle sitting in there long enough to eat lunch, much less leaving my SPD to sounds & lots of movement/busy kids child in there for 2.5 hours.

She LOVED it. Said it was way better than playschool. Even though there were more kids it was more structured than playschool was. It was no fault of the playschool. It was the same school & teachers that my other 2 kids had when they were in playschool & they had no issues.

The school system told me that they could look for a different school, but they would have to pull him out of this school first and then see if there were any openings at another school. And if there is someone on the waiting list of this school, he would lose his spot and not have anywhere to go to if there were no openings elsewhere. Plus, I don't think it's really this school. I think it's just school. Period.

[thatgirliknew]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

yes, it is totally possible that what is best for him, the environment where he can thrive and blossom, isn't the one that you would pick for yourself.

Is it possible to switch him to a different style of preschool for this year?

What would it take for you to feel positive about him being in preschool this year? He will have an easier time if he senses that MOMMY thinks preschool is a good thing and that he is capable of being successful there.

I like this preschool since the teacher is really trying to work with it. The only thing that would make it easier for me is if he wanted to go. And I don't know how to make that happen.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by thatgirliknew

I would LOVE to homeschool. It would be the best thing for my son I think. He could still have opportunities for socializing on HIS terms without it making him cry. But since I am not seeing that happening, I REALLY hope I can get his dad agree to montessori and get him approved.

I've contacted Legal Aid for my city, and they said they don't deal with custody cases at all. But they do have some sliding-fee scale lawyers who do. I'm drowning right now, but when taxes come I am going to try to use that money for a income-based lawyer. Hopefully, this time the judge will see this arrangement is too stressful for such a young child

Have you posted on the Single Parents board? They may have some advice for you. At minimum, an extensive paper trail would be helpful. Perhaps you can get his therapist to write him a letter requesting he contact her to arrange co-parenting sessions, and then you would have his response to that to work with. Also, if you request mediation and he refuses to participate, I would think that would look bad for him as well.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by thatgirliknew

I like this preschool since the teacher is really trying to work with it. The only thing that would make it easier for me is if he wanted to go. And I don't know how to make that happen.

I think that it is possible that you and your son are feeding off each other. Since you would prefer that he homeschool, he could EASILY pick up on that and feel that something is wrong with him being in school, and since his personality is a bit anxious/depressed to start with, it intensifies your feelings that school isn't the best option for him.

I have a child who is naturally anxious/depressed (she is on the autism spectrum), and we've tried both homeschooling and school, and school is overall better for her, she is overall happier. But she still has anxiety about school.