Need tandem help! (3 y/o w/ BAD latch wants to nurse 24-7 )

[rparker]

I nursed my (now) 3 year old through her sister's pregnancy with the intention of tandem nursing. Towards the end of the pregnancy she was down to 1-3 nursing sessions per day (her choice) and rarely nursed at night. Occasionally she would bite or her latch would become too shallow, but if I gently reminded her she would correct it.

Her sister was born 2 weeks ago. For the first few days I allowed her to nurse on "demand" (it seems weird to say "cue" about a child who talks about bf-ing in complete sentences)... until I realized that her latch had become HORRIBLE, literally overnight.

When she nurses she is basically just putting her mouth over the nipple and flicking it non-stop with her tongue, occasionally sucking. It is absolutely driving me crazy and makes my skin crawl. I've limited her to her pre-sister daily maximum number of nursing sessions (morning, afternoon, bedtime, when hurt), but even those are really irritating. I've tried explaining to her what the problem is and demonstrating how she needs to open her mouth and latch on, but she completely ignores me. I feel really bad because I end up curtailing most of her nursing sessions before she's ready because I can't stand the way they feel.

Is there any hope for her latch improving? Either on its own or some way to teach her? Or are my only choices a) dealing with nursing her feeling wrong/bad b) outright mother-led weaning, which I said I'd never do?

This is part of a general regression/deterioration in her behavior that began somewhere around weeks 32-36 of my pregnancy and has escalated since her sister was born. She vacillates between "wanting to be a baby" and just acting outright destructive/dangerous. She really likes her little sister, but this is clearly very rough on her and I had hoped that tandem nursing would help with the transition and instead it seems to be making it worse

Thanks in advance for any advice... I might not get back to post on this thread very quickly b/c of the newborn/toddler situation, but I really appreciate any insight from mamas who have "been there, done that."

ETA: Would saying "yes" to most of her nursing requests and ignoring how icky bf-ing her feels and/or cheerfully ending nursing sessions without mentioning that it's because of an undesirable action on her part be a stupid strategy? Could it maybe help her get over wanting to bf ALL THE TIME (and being sad that she can't) at least? Or is it just likely to cause her to bf 24-7...

[lisalu100]

I haven't BTDT, but since no-one else has replied, and you didn't mention it, do you think the problem may be that you have a much better supply now, and she's having trouble comfort nursing - maybe she doesn't want milk, but keeps getting it? Can you pump/nurse the baby first so that there's a low milk flow?

[rparker]

lisalu100: You're probably dead on about my supply causing her issues and I hadn't even thought of that impacting her latch. I have a pretty substantial over supply and an overactive letdown when nursing a newborn. Both were "worse" with DD1 who was an avid nurser; they're a little bit better with this baby who nurses less, but I can still shoot milk across the room The issues with DD1 didn't begin until after my milk came in (around 36 hours pp).

I already nurse the newborn first 90% of the time. I don't know that I could really pump enough to make a difference (from DD1's perspective) without creating a crazy oversupply (which I'm reluctant to do since DD2 has just adjusted to the amount I'm currently making). I can get 5 oz on each side in about 10 minutes (with a manual pump) and still have my breasts be completely full. I will be pumping at least once a day with a double electric for a milk bank once my supply is better established and DD2 is a bit older, so I will try offering DD1 the breast after those sessions.

After reading your post I told DD1 that if she's getting too much milk she doesn't have to keep nursing and she can just put her head next to the breast and have me hold her if she wants... which she ended up doing, but she was pretty sleepy. I'll see if that works when she's more awake/alert. I'm also going to make more of an effort to offer alternate "big girl activities" that she really likes and see if that helps her... I realize that's a weaning strategy, but if her issue really is wanting less milk so she can comfort suck maybe offering her comfort in other ways is in her best interests since I can't change my supply? She got *almost* 3 years of uninterrupted bf-ing (her sister was born 5 days before her birthday), so at this point I'm more concerned with finding the course of action that will make her happiest rather than preserving the nursing relationship if it's no longer workable.

Thank you so much for your insight! It wouldn't have occurred to me that too much milk was the problem since she had always been such a milk addict in the past.

[porcelina]

Just wanted to say that maybe things will work out when your supply gets more under control -- my DS2 is at 4 weeks now, and boobs are much more in tune with what is actually demanded, no more rock boob. That's a great strategy, though, to have DD settle next to breast if she doesn't want the milk. My problem with DS1 (33 months when DS2 born) was that the latch hurt a lot, something about having so much supply and his sucking was very uncomfortable. Now, everything is fine, though I still get a bit of the creepy crawlies and limit his sessions most of the time.

[rparker]

It's encouraging to hear that it may get better when this babe is older... I keep forgetting how young she still is.

I'm beginning to wonder though if she doesn't have some issue other than my oversupply because her latch gets worse after she's been nursing for a few minutes (when the flow should be lower?) and she frequently asks to switch sides, which I would think would result in her getting even more milk?

Maybe it's because my breasts are now larger than they've ever been? It still takes DD2 a few tries to latch on and her latch often feels a *tiny* bit shallow to me compared to how DD1's felt at the same age, but she's opening her mouth as wide as she can and taking in a decent amount of breast/areola/nipple (and gaining/peeing/pooping well).