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"He'll be sorry when he sees how screwed up he made my life."

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
That's what my son says about his Dad. My son seems to have found an excuse to let himself self destruct (or just underachieve?)- it's Daddy's fault for leaving us.

My son tells me that he doesn't have to try to do his best under stress because his Dad didn't- his Dad just kicked us out and didn't try to fix things when things got rough.

My son tells me that his childhood has been ruined because of what his Dad did and he has 5 more years to be a child, without any responsibilities, and he plans on taking full advantage of it 'cause you're only a child once, so he doesn't feel he has to really do anything (homework, housework, etc.).

My son tells me that he really doesn't care if he fails in everything- schoolwork, later, real work, etc, in fact, if he ends up living on the street 'cause he can't get his act together, then "maybe Daddy will realize just how much he screwed up everybody's lives by making his selfish decisions, choosing himself over his family".

I'm sure some of this my son is saying partially for shock value, 'cause he doesn't want to do his homework or go to bed at a decent time, but some of what he says, like the third thing, he really means. :-( Should I tell his Dad? His Dad sometimes helps with these things. How should I respond? So far, I've been reminding him of how he felt when his Dad did that to him, and it's not fair for him to do the same to someone else, but he's not that far into it yet- he's still in the "that'll show Daddy" phase.

And yes, my son is in therapy, and yes, he sees his Dad a couple times a month, emails, texts and calls several times a week.
post #2 of 17
Oh, man. I wish I had a crystal ball so I could tell you he's just a bitter, angry teen and all will be well in a few years. My dd goes between chasing her dad and pretty much begging him to be in her life to being angry at him or me or both of us. I haven't figured out a course of action. I would be beside myself if she decided that wrecking her life would be a good way to communicate with him. It's not like it would work. I'm really sorry things have been so tough for you and I hope that there will be a point of joy and peace for you really soon.

BTW- Is he medicated at all?
post #3 of 17
Just a few ideas:

Find better male role models for him to bond with.

He might have to sever some emotional bonds with his dad.

He doesn't know how good life can be if he tries. He needs to be encouraged and inspired about what he is capable of accomplishing in life. Do lots of dreambuilding with him. Fill up his love cup. He must have some interests and passions in life. Find a way to show him how far that dream can take him. It sounds like his future is blank in his own mind. Show him how to plan.
post #4 of 17
sorry

If his dad is willing to listen, and you don't think he'll get angry with you or your son, I would tell him. Start by telling him the more mundane stuff - about not wanting to do his hw, and then hit him with the big one if he's receptive. He may be able to talk to your son during his visitation and help a little - reassuring him, that sort of thing.

My mom says that she talked to my brothers through their bedroom doors alot when they were teens - and I remember her doing it! It worked I guess, they're both very happy and in their 20's.

I would keep the lines of communication open - and work on being happy yourself as well. Your son will see you happy and that will affect his outlook as well - kids learn from us whether they like it or not!
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppyMama View Post
My dd goes between chasing her dad and pretty much begging him to be in her life to being angry at him or me or both of us.
Yeah, that's pretty much how it goes, begging or avoiding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppyMama View Post
Is he medicated at all?
No. Neither me, nor my son believe in medicine for emotional or mental issues. Up until recently, I didn't really see the need- he was "okay"- but now I'm at a loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthRootsStarSoul View Post
Find better male role models for him to bond with.
I'm working on that. I'm in a town with no male friends, hours away from my family. He's got his Dad (sometimes), he's got his Grampa (wonderful man, but not as often as he should), and he's got my brother, who lives 2 1/2 hours away and is my only family member who can easily travel the distance (everyone else, including me, either has physical, financial or transportation issues that prevent seeing my family more than a couple times a year). Does anyone know the age limit to Big Brothers, Big Sisters? My son is 15, probably too old?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthRootsStarSoul View Post
He doesn't know how good life can be if he tries. He needs to be encouraged and inspired about what he is capable of accomplishing in life. Do lots of dreambuilding with him. Fill up his love cup. He must have some interests and passions in life. Find a way to show him how far that dream can take him. It sounds like his future is blank in his own mind. Show him how to plan.
I've been working on this and he is beginning to open up a little. He refuses to open up to his therapist- we're on the second and last "free" one we can get to- so he's been talking to me more, but it's slow going. And unfortunately, he can only really open up after 12, 12:30 at night, in the dark, after he gets out the emotional need to take some anger out on me (argue about bedtime, something like that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by thyra View Post
If his dad is willing to listen, and you don't think he'll get angry with you or your son, I would tell him. Start by telling him the more mundane stuff - about not wanting to do his hw, and then hit him with the big one if he's receptive. He may be able to talk to your son during his visitation and help a little - reassuring him, that sort of thing!
There is no visitation- my son is his stepson, but the only Dad he's ever known. He comes over a couple times a month to see my son, but it's alot different then what my son sees with his own "real" daughter- she's there every other weekend and every Wednesday. I do talk to his Dad about these issues, and his Dad tries for a couple weeks to bemore involved, but he just fizzles out. (What my son doesn't see is, my soon-to-be-ex-Husband really has no interest in either child anymore, he's just legally required to take his daughter, so he does. She spends the entire time either downstairs at Grampa's house or watching tv, while my soon-to-be-ex Husband works on his laptop.) I get help from my son's Dad, but it never lasts- his head isn't in any place to make a real lasting effort.
post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by kblackstone444 View Post

There is no visitation- my son is his stepson, but the only Dad he's ever known. He comes over a couple times a month to see my son, but it's alot different then what my son sees with his own "real" daughter- she's there every other weekend and every Wednesday. I do talk to his Dad about these issues, and his Dad tries for a couple weeks to bemore involved, but he just fizzles out. (What my son doesn't see is, my soon-to-be-ex-Husband really has no interest in either child anymore, he's just legally required to take his daughter, so he does. She spends the entire time either downstairs at Grampa's house or watching tv, while my soon-to-be-ex Husband works on his laptop.) I get help from my son's Dad, but it never lasts- his head isn't in any place to make a real lasting effort.
Would your stbx take your ds for a weekend? Just one? Then he can actually SEE what his little sis does for the weekend?

Or, at 15, he's old enough to be told that. I would be careful to tell him that its in confidence that you're telling him, you're trying to help him understand the situation, that you REALLY wish things were different.

I don't know the age limit for Big brothers big sisters, its worth a few calls to find out.

Does your ds have any close friends at school? If so, and you feel comfortable, maybe you could talk to one of their parents (in secret of course - don't want to embarrass him!) and kind of let them know whats going on - open the doors for some good fathers to reach out. That is, if you know the family well enough. Or maybe mention it to one of your good girl friends - see if they volunteer their husband? I know my good friends husbands are going to see lots of my ds as he grows up, and other male friends of mine!

ETA - to go along with your stbx losing interest, I would then stop trying to get his interest again - it would be more harmful maybe for him to be interested for a few weeks, and then not be interested for longer - the in and out is worse than just out.

You said he's in counseling, is he making progress? Have you spoken to his counselor? If he's not making progress (and has been going long enough to see progress) maybe he's not meshing with this particular counselor??
post #7 of 17
My dad detached from me in a weird way when I was a teen (I lived with him from 9 to 14 and then he sent me back to live with my mom) and has never been a supportive presence ever since. It coincided with his remarriage. My mother took the point of view that he just must have lost his mind. When he would say or do something that seemed totally out of character she would say "he loves you very much, he's just lost his mind". I think people do that sometimes, change and detach and it is kind of like they've lost their mind. I took a similar stance with my kids but since their dad was an addict I'd tell them that he loved them very much but he was too sick to be the father he wants to be.

I know the program continues past that age but most kids are signed up younger. You have special circumstances though...
http://www.nymetroparents.com/bestbe...1487&catid=287

On the meds...I used to be very against meds and avoided them for my daughter until our home life wasn't functional. They are perfect but they have helped a lot and I've come to the conclusion that it's a little cruel to let someone suffer when there is something that can help. Sometimes people get so bogged down in depression and their chemical balance gets off and without meds to correct and hold everything steady for a while there is no recovery. Will you qualify for children's medical coverage after the baby is born? The meds are undoable without coverage unless he takes prozac or one of the ones available very cheaply. Even 5Htp in a sturdy dose at bedtime helps and it's more of a vitamin but that would be out of pocket. It's a lot cheaper than it used to be especially if you order from vitacost but it's still money. Sometimes people can reregulate with food, exercise and sun exposure but it's nearly impossible to get a teen to do all that stuff.
post #8 of 17
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thyra View Post
Would your stbx take your ds for a weekend? Just one? Then he can actually SEE what his little sis does for the weekend?

Or, at 15, he's old enough to be told that. I would be careful to tell him that its in confidence that you're telling him, you're trying to help him understand the situation, that you REALLY wish things were different.
He's been over there overnight once or twice and yes, he does see it, but his reasoning is, at lease Daddy wants her around, even if he doesn't give her attention. He is old enough, so that he does understand most of the situation- basically, my Hubby had a midlife crisis (or as my son put it, "went crazy" ) and doesn't have any interest in anything right now, including me, including him, including his daughter, his old friends, etc. My son understands this on an intellectual level, but not on an emotional level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thyra View Post
Does your ds have any close friends at school?
No. He has one or two sometimes friends. He doesn't make friends easily and we're extremely poor now in an upper-middle class town, so he doesn't really fit in anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thyra View Post
ETA - to go along with your stbx losing interest, I would then stop trying to get his interest again - it would be more harmful maybe for him to be interested for a few weeks, and then not be interested for longer - the in and out is worse than just out.
Unfortunately, to do this, my son and I would also lose contact with his "sister" (stepsister, though they were raised as sister and brother and they have been very close since she was a toddler). My son and I still need my stepdaughter, my stepdaughter still needs her "family".

Quote:
Originally Posted by thyra View Post
ETA You said he's in counseling, is he making progress? Have you spoken to his counselor? If he's not making progress (and has been going long enough to see progress) maybe he's not meshing with this particular counselor??
He's in counseling, but it's not working. There are two counselors who will do it on a sliding scale (free for us) in the area, he didn't like the first, and the second one's not working out, either. He does tell me he doesn't believe in therapy, so I think that has something to do with it as well.
post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppyMama View Post
My dad detached from me in a weird way when I was a teen (I lived with him from 9 to 14 and then he sent me back to live with my mom) and has never been a supportive presence ever since. It coincided with his remarriage. My mother took the point of view that he just must have lost his mind. When he would say or do something that seemed totally out of character she would say "he loves you very much, he's just lost his mind". I think people do that sometimes, change and detach and it is kind of like they've lost their mind. I took a similar stance with my kids but since their dad was an addict I'd tell them that he loved them very much but he was too sick to be the father he wants to be.
That's very similar to our situation. He had a midlife crisis (my opinion) and his best friend had come back to town after 10 years expecting a bachelor buddy, so he helped convince him how much I was "ruining his life". I have told my son the basics, that he's not quite in his right mind, and I don't know when or if he will ever go back to his right mind, but that doesn't mean he doesn't love my son, it means he can't focus on anything but what made him lose his mind. My son has seen this firsthand- he went to my stepdaughter's birthday party (which I was not invited to) and there were a few kids there, but nobody my stepdaughter really knew or had bonded with, and for the most part, it was like a frat party- cigarette smoking, cigar smoking, heavy drinking, adult music (heavy metal, etc). My son sees that it's not his Dad driving the bus anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppyMama View Post
Will you qualify for children's medical coverage after the baby is born? The meds are undoable without coverage unless he takes prozac or one of the ones available very cheaply. Even 5Htp in a sturdy dose at bedtime helps and it's more of a vitamin but that would be out of pocket. It's a lot cheaper than it used to be especially if you order from vitacost but it's still money. Sometimes people can reregulate with food, exercise and sun exposure but it's nearly impossible to get a teen to do all that stuff.
Yes, I will qualify, but how do you FORCE someone as big as you to take drugs they don't believe in, especially when you're not sure yourself whether or not they do any good? He's not gonna regulate with food, exercise or sun exposure- he sits in a dark room on the computer most the time, unless I force him to go out and do something, and food, I have to be constantly on his case or he will live off of Ramen noodles, frozen pizza, chips and ice cream.
post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by kblackstone444 View Post

Yes, I will qualify, but how do you FORCE someone as big as you to take drugs they don't believe in, especially when you're not sure yourself whether or not they do any good? He's not gonna regulate with food, exercise or sun exposure- he sits in a dark room on the computer most the time, unless I force him to go out and do something, and food, I have to be constantly on his case or he will live off of Ramen noodles, frozen pizza, chips and ice cream.
Honestly, I would drop the food issue. My brothers lived on similar foods as teens, and it hasn't hurt them. I would focus on other things, and be VERY careful about which battles you pick with him. There is a correlation to diet and moods, but unless you know for a fact that the food is whats causing it, let him make as many of his own decisions as much as possible (unless they have to do with physical safety). My brothers also spent loads of time playing video games - certainly not ideal, but it got my brother a great job while he was in college providing tech support to game "dummies" who would call Nintendo and my brother would help them (not the best job ever, but it paid VERY well)

ETA - as far as meds, if he doesn't believe in them, but also doesn't believe in self regulating with sun exposure, diet, and exercise, well, something HAS to give - and meds may be the way to go if he refuses to do all other things.

Once you get childrens health coverage (are you on medicaid?? My counseling is covered free through HIP medicaid) will you be able to get him access to other counselors? Have you harassed medicaid to pay for another counselor? A male perhaps? Someone young and "cool"? I would be harassing until they just gave me what I want - but thats just me.
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thyra View Post
Honestly, I would drop the food issue. My brothers lived on similar foods as teens, and it hasn't hurt them. I would focus on other things, and be VERY careful about which battles you pick with him. There is a correlation to diet and moods, but unless you know for a fact that the food is whats causing it, let him make as many of his own decisions as possible (unless they have to do with physical safety). My brothers also spent loads of time playing video games - certainly not ideal, but it got my brother a great job while he was in college providing tech support to game "dummies" who would call Nintendo and my brother would help them (not the best job ever, but it paid VERY well)
The playing computer games isn't really an issue to me. I AM concerned 'cause he does spend all his time sitting at that computer, but, I'm gonna be perfectly honest here, just between me and you and the people reading this thread... he's not college material. But he CAN take a computer apart and put it back together and he CAN reprogram a computer and he CAN reprogram his computer games to work in strange ways, so I'm hoping and praying he will eventually find a job like your brother did. He would be in his element.
post #13 of 17
I doubted he would do the "natural" regulation stuff, I know I could never get my dd to do it, but if he's not willing to do meds that's the alternative to being a miserable person. I hope you can find some alternative therapists to see if he clicks with one. We've been through a couple and the one we have right now clicks with my dd but is constantly unavailable. We stick with her though because if she's not willing to open up there's no point in burning gas to get there. If he finds a therapist he clicks with (I would guess male and younger) they may be able to help him see that a course of meds might really help him out. I will say that even with meds my dd was committed for a week and that really helped her see that home was not as oppressive as she thought it was. I really hesitated to send her but I got good feedback that the teen facility was safe, if boring as heck for her, and not somewhere she needed to be afraid to be.

I see no reason why everyone needs to be college material and it's great that he has an interest that coincides with a talent. Lord am I searching for one of those in my dd. Wouldn't it be cool if he could start retooling computers/game stuff from the thrift store and selling it on craigslist to make money for himself. Great for the self esteem. Too bad he can't do some of that computer work in light cause no sunlight messes with people who tend toward depression and causes severe vit d deficits that are impossible to correct with normal amounts of vit d which causes a lot of the symptoms that seem psych related but are really a vit deficit.
post #14 of 17
I also don't think everyone needs to be college material, and don't think thats an issue. However, I do think that people should make those determinations for themselves - in other words, if you don't believe in him, who WILL??

Cause to be honest, being able to take a computer apart, fix it, and put it back together, sounds like pretty good college material to me. A friend I had in college did engineering and Robotics - he built robots! In College! AWESOME! Sounds like something your ds would like - and it can be done in college.
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thyra View Post
I also don't think everyone needs to be college material, and don't think thats an issue. However, I do think that people should make those determinations for themselves - in other words, if you don't believe in him, who WILL??

Cause to be honest, being able to take a computer apart, fix it, and put it back together, sounds like pretty good college material to me. A friend I had in college did engineering and Robotics - he built robots! In College! AWESOME! Sounds like something your ds would like - and it can be done in college.
Oh, don't get me wrong- I'm certainly not discouraging him from college, nor have I ever told him he's not college material, and if he decides he wants to go, one way or another, we'll find a way to do it (grant? loan?), but I'm being realistic- the kid's highly gifted, but the study motivation is not there, that kind of school learning- rsit down, read a book, write a report about it, take a test- is not his style of learning. He does best with alternate learning techniques and, realistically, college usually doesn't offer it, and when they do, there are other "required" coarses that come with it that do require more classic learning techniques. I'm not discouraging him from college, but I'm certainly making sure he knows he has more options as well, kinda like a backup plan.
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by kblackstone444 View Post
Oh, don't get me wrong- I'm certainly not discouraging him from college, nor have I ever told him he's not college material, and if he decides he wants to go, one way or another, we'll find a way to do it (grant? loan?), but I'm being realistic- the kid's highly gifted, but the study motivation is not there, that kind of school learning- rsit down, read a book, write a report about it, take a test- is not his style of learning. He does best with alternate learning techniques and, realistically, college usually doesn't offer it, and when they do, there are other "required" coarses that come with it that do require more classic learning techniques. I'm not discouraging him from college, but I'm certainly making sure he knows he has more options as well, kinda like a backup plan.
Ok, check out Evergreen State College in WA - its for the type of students that DO NOT do well in traditional school settings. My little brother barely made it out of high school, and he's going there and is motivated, learning TONS, is enjoying school (which is totally weird). There are no lame pre-reqs. There may be other schools like it, but I know many people who went there and absolutely LOVED it.

Also, he may not be ready now, but he's got a few more years to go (ok, can you tell that college is not only encouraged in my family but expected? It's not my fault, this is the way I was raised - my dad almost sh!t a brick when my little bro took time off) and may be ready later. He also might be ready in 5-10 years and be a traditional student. Lastly, there are LOTS of people that I know who were NOT college material who went to college. Seriously, some of the people I graduated with didn't know which way was up
post #17 of 17
He sounds stuck in a pretty deep well of "poor me".

Have you played out with him where this fantasy ends? So what if Daddy realizes he's a loser...what's your life like then? When you've wasted X years waiting for Daddy to realize it? When you've lost opportunities and had the sort of hard life experiences that come from living on the streets? How does Daddy's realization **fix** the mess your DS will have made of his life? And the answer, of course, is that it can never fix it.

Does he understand that Daddy may never realize anything, and the only person he's hurting is himself?

What about talking to him about using this experience as "fuel" rather than as roadblock? Some people would be about making the most amazing life for themselves possible to show the other person that whatever they do, they can't get me down.

As for the medication -- has your DS actually done any research on medication? Or is this just a feeling he has? Maybe speaking to the doctor, and obtaining some studies to read/research together would be beneficial.
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