Anyone have success with the No-Cry Sleep Solutions?

[P.J.]

My baby is 5 months old and we're going through some major sleep transitions right now. At least in the last week, he's turned from a STTNer (from birth!) into an hourly waker starting at 3am. He also used to be easy to get to sleep for naps and then when he was asleep I'd lay him in our bed, but no more. He wakes up and fusses and cries as soon as he hits the bed lately. We're probably going to get a crib and try to transition him to that for naps (as he's crawling and I've found him crawling around the bed after naps!!). We're also starting to have an issue that I nurse him to sleep, as DH, MIL and SIL all watch him sometimes and it ends up him screaming himself to sleep (in their arms, not CIO!!) if I'm not there to nurse him down. I'd love to help him learn how to fall asleep without me/nursing and without screaming.

Sooooo, I have both of the No-Cry Sleep Solution books (the sleep one and the nap one). Right now I'm about to start gently helping him fall asleep without nursing, and it looks like I need to try the solution for transitioning from asleep in-arms to asleep in bed.

Has anyone used any of the solutions from these books with success? It seems a little intimidating that I'll need to apply them so consistently over several weeks or more, but I suppose that's the only way to change sleep habits without CIO (which, clearly, I would never ever do). I realize all these recent sleep changes could be a phase (he's not getting teeth as far as I can tell, but has become way more mobile at the same time), but the nursing to sleep thing is a habit by now so I'm starting there and see how it goes and if the other issues just pass.

[voca]

I used her techniques to get our daughter to fall asleep lying beside me in the bed rather than needing to be rocked down when she was 9 months or so. It took time but worked well.

I still nurse her down lying on the bed at 15 months, and her father gives her a bottle and rocks her down. I haven't tried to change the nursing, and he hasn't tried to change his routine with her at all. So we just can't speak to the effectiveness for that.

[maydaymom10]

I've been having the same problems, although my 6-mo went from sleeping 5 hours stretches, to 1.5-2 hour ones. Anyway, I also have the No-Cry books. I've used some of the techniques and they've worked well. Specifically getting him to go down initially around 7 or so. But, we're still struggling with night waking. I haven't been consistent or dedicated with her techniques, and I need to try it for a week or two. This new night waking has been going on for 3 weeks now, and the lack of sleep is getting to me. I guess I'm a little too impatient for the no-cry solutions, butat the same time I really can't handle the CIO options (nor do I want to). Let me kn ow if you have any success and advice. Maybe we can cheer each other on & encourage each other to stick with it for a few weeks and compare notes. Good luck.

[busymama77]

I have the book as well and started using it when DS2 was 6 months old. He's currently teething, the bottom teeth have broken through, so waking up once every so often at night isn't so bad. He did wake up three times with in 2 hours the other night, but again, it was definitely teething.

I think the biggest thing when placing him in the crib or if you co-sleep, is to have them awake, but drowsy, so that they know to fall alseep wherever they've been placed and not your arms. While my DS still falls asleep on my shoulder have rocking him, he's still a little awake when I place him in his crib.

[Bebe's Mom]

I ordered the No-Cry sleep solution from the library, but I haven't picked it up yet. I am currently reading the Sleep Lady and she has some good stuff in there...It is not CIO, which I don't believe in doing, but she does say the baby will cry at first because you are changing his routine. She also says to nurse the baby to drowsiness, and then put him in the crib and stay with him until he falls asleep, but don't pick him up. He will cry at first, but eventually he will learn to put himself to sleep. She makes the point that when a person/baby is sleeping they go through different sleep cycles and wake briefly-the baby needs to learn how to put him/herself back to sleep when between cycles. I don't agree with all her stuff-she is big on schedules, which I find very constricting, and she suggests keeping a log and calling someone every morning with a progress report-too much like work to me! But she says her method is compatible with AP parenting and she has a chapter on cosleeping and she talks about getting the baby to sleep without nursing them down-which is exactly what I want to do.

We are trying it for the first time tonight, and so far it is going well- bebe cried, but only for a few minutes at first and then she woke up again and cried, but fell back to sleep within a few minutes-of course we go to her when she cries, but we don't pick her up. I think no matter what method you use, consistency is the key!!! Don't backslide, or it will be much harder to start over again.

Dr. Jay Gordon also has some very good advice:

http://drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

We have coslept since she was born, but she wakes up 5-6 times a night to nurse, and she kicks my husband constantly, so we have decided to put her in the crib from now on. If it were just her and me, we would probably just continue cosleeping for awhile longer, but I REALLY want to night wean...I need some sleep, and so does bebe-she has never napped well or slept through the night. I wish I would have started putting her in the crib from the beginning, at least for naps.

Good luck!!

[maydaymom10]

Originally Posted by Bebe's Mom

We are trying it for the first time tonight, and so far it is going well- bebe cried, but only for a few minutes at first and then she woke up again and cried, but fell back to sleep within a few minutes-of course we go to her when she cries, but we don't pick her up. I think no matter what method you use, consistency is the key!!! Don't backslide, or it will be much harder to start over again.

Dr. Jay Gordon also has some very good advice:

http://drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

Just curious how you (or others) are handling the crying in the crib w/o picking them up. I struggle with that. I've tried it a few times, but don't get too far. DS seems to go on forever when we don't pick him up. Even today as I was trying to put him down for a nap, he cried for about 10 minutes b/c I didn't nurse him down (trying to break that association). I've been sleeping with him in bed again (he'd been in his own room since 8 wks), and now he's letting out this dolphin-like shriek if he doesn't get boob! I finally gave in. Do you all have a time limit that you give yourself before picking them up and/or nursing them down? Just curious. I think that's DS's main crutch right now.

Also, like the idea by Dr. Gordan. Might have to try it if I can handle to crying aspect (even if I'm there).

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by maydaymom10

Just curious how you (or others) are handling the crying in the crib w/o picking them up. I struggle with that. I've tried it a few times, but don't get too far. DS seems to go on forever when we don't pick him up. Even today as I was trying to put him down for a nap, he cried for about 10 minutes b/c I didn't nurse him down (trying to break that association). I've been sleeping with him in bed again (he'd been in his own room since 8 wks), and now he's letting out this dolphin-like shriek if he doesn't get boob! I finally gave in. Do you all have a time limit that you give yourself before picking them up and/or nursing them down? Just curious. I think that's DS's main crutch right now.

Also, like the idea by Dr. Gordan. Might have to try it if I can handle to crying aspect (even if I'm there).

I did try The No-Cry method for breaking the nursing-down habit...once, a few days ago. And, on the first try, it did make a difference and no tears! Her method involves nursing him down, but taking him off the breast and if he whines putting him back on and so on until he falls asleep, eventually off the breast. I had to take him off and back on a few times, but he did fall asleep off the breast!

However, it seems nursing down is the very least of our sleep issues at the moment, so I have given up with that for now. Today I am starting a sleep log to see the patterns, and I'm going to read the rest of the No-Cry nighttime book and start implementing her solutions. I think I may start a whole new thread as I'm kind of worried and losing it at this moment.

Originally Posted by maydaymom10

I've been having the same problems, although my 6-mo went from sleeping 5 hours stretches, to 1.5-2 hour ones. Anyway, I also have the No-Cry books. I've used some of the techniques and they've worked well. Specifically getting him to go down initially around 7 or so. But, we're still struggling with night waking. I haven't been consistent or dedicated with her techniques, and I need to try it for a week or two. This new night waking has been going on for 3 weeks now, and the lack of sleep is getting to me. I guess I'm a little too impatient for the no-cry solutions, butat the same time I really can't handle the CIO options (nor do I want to). Let me kn ow if you have any success and advice. Maybe we can cheer each other on & encourage each other to stick with it for a few weeks and compare notes. Good luck.

I will definitely update in this thread!

[Bebe's Mom]

Originally Posted by maydaymom10

Just curious how you (or others) are handling the crying in the crib w/o picking them up. I struggle with that. I've tried it a few times, but don't get too far. DS seems to go on forever when we don't pick him up. Even today as I was trying to put him down for a nap, he cried for about 10 minutes b/c I didn't nurse him down (trying to break that association). I've been sleeping with him in bed again (he'd been in his own room since 8 wks), and now he's letting out this dolphin-like shriek if he doesn't get boob! I finally gave in. Do you all have a time limit that you give yourself before picking them up and/or nursing them down? Just curious. I think that's DS's main crutch right now.

Also, like the idea by Dr. Gordan. Might have to try it if I can handle to crying aspect (even if I'm there).

I am not handling the crying in the crib well, but my husband is being very adamant about it. I feel awful about it, but if I touch her or pick her up, it makes it worse. I don't want to nurse her or bring her into the bed because then we will have to start all over. I am trying to be strong about this, because I know that she will eventually sleep a lot better-she wakes up too much when we cosleep. She has woken up three times tonight, the first two times she cried a little bit, the last time she cried for what seemed like forever. Her father is in the room with her-her crib is in our bedroom-and I am just outside her door, so it is not like she is just CIO by herself-she knows we are there.. I don't want to give her mixed signals. If we give in the first night, it will just get harder and harder to get her to sleep on her own. I am mad at myself, because I feel like I created this situation. I think you are doing the right thing by putting him down for naps w/o nursing, it will take awhile. I usually nurse her for her naps, but I am going to stop doing that too. I was told that babies can be nightweaned by 12 months. She is 13 months, so she should be fine, it is just a bad habit-when she is sleeping next to me she wakes up 5-6 times a night and sometimes just uses me as a human pacifier all night. I don't want to be doing this when she is 18,24,36 months.

[Bebe's Mom]

So, we got through the first night. I could have killed someone over at the fire station. They kept setting off the siren and waking her up just as she fell asleep. AARGH. My DH woke her up when he got up for work and I took her in the bed with me. I think that is what I am going to do from now on, just leave her in the crib at night and then when he gets up, take her in with me and nurse her back to sleep. She woke up quite cheerful.

[maydaymom10]

We got through the night as well. I was optimistic in that DS didn't wake up for the first time (after 10:30 or so) until 2:00. But then it was every hour after that. I decided to try some of the No-Cry & the Dr. Gordan solutions. I did pick him up when he cried, but only nursed him for about 5 mins before putting him back down. Most of the time he fell right back asleep. I didn't try the Pantley Pull-Off... in fact I gave him his paci when I put him down (bad me). I did try to pull him off the breast initially when I put him down for the night, but it was awful. I'll try again tonight.

Since DH is just DH, I've decided to just try to get him sleeping a 4-5 hour stretch initially, and then work on actually sleeping 7+ hours. So, I did actually feed him at 3:00 (more than 5 mins).

Oh, and I did break down and finally brought him to bed with me around 5:50 after he'd been up fussing for almost an hour. I'm going to get DH to help me out with this, but he's getting over a nasty cold, so we're trying to keep his contact with DS limited until he's feeling better.

Hope you all had good luck last night. On to night #2... update tomorrow

[bodhitree]

Originally Posted by Bebe's Mom

I am currently reading the Sleep Lady and she has some good stuff in there...It is not CIO, which I don't believe in doing, but she does say the baby will cry at first because you are changing his routine. She also says to nurse the baby to drowsiness, and then put him in the crib and stay with him until he falls asleep, but don't pick him up. He will cry at first, but eventually he will learn to put himself to sleep.

Not trying to flame you, mama, because I fully sympathize with your sleep troubles and I know you're trying to do the best you can for your little one. However, many people would consider the strategy you describe to be CIO. If your baby is in his crib crying and you aren't supposed to pick him up and comfort him, I don't see that as being a whole lot better than putting him in the crib to cry and leaving the room--verbal comforting without being picked up doesn't mean much to an upset baby. The idea that the baby will cry at first but will eventually learn to go to sleep on his own is a hallmark of the CIO-style approaches. But what is he really learning? And is it something you actually want to teach him? It's worth thinking about, in my opinion.

[maydaymom10]

Originally Posted by bodhitree

Not trying to flame you, mama, because I fully sympathize with your sleep troubles and I know you're trying to do the best you can for your little one. However, many people would consider the strategy you describe to be CIO. If your baby is in his crib crying and you aren't supposed to pick him up and comfort him, I don't see that as being a whole lot better than putting him in the crib to cry and leaving the room--verbal comforting without being picked up doesn't mean much to an upset baby. The idea that the baby will cry at first but will eventually learn to go to sleep on his own is a hallmark of the CIO-style approaches. But what is he really learning? And is it something you actually want to teach him? It's worth thinking about, in my opinion.

I totally understand what you're saying & have wondered about that myself. But, I have a questions for you. Since it looks as if you have an older infant... do you have any suggestions on how to get a younger infant to sleep a little longer at night? Either bed sharing or in their own crib? Just curious. I'm well aware that everyone approaches this issue differently, and also that everyone has their own level of tolerance to night waking & nursing. I'm just collecting advice. Thanks.

[Bebe's Mom]

Well, I agree with you Bodhitree, what we tried the first night was very much like CIO, and it made me feel awful, so I stopped, but the CIO method states that you leave the baby in the room by herself and don't comfort her. The Sleep books say that the baby will cry, but the idea is not to let the baby cry herself to sleep, it is to have the baby put herself to sleep..there is a difference. I am just trying to come up with a strategy that works...Tonight we did it a bit differently. I nursed her for a bit and then put her in the crib and stayed with her.. She cried a little bit-like ten minutes-and then fell asleep. She slept for about an hour and then she woke up and started to cry, so I took her out of the crib and nursed her for about 3-4 minutes and put her back in the crib. She cried for about 30 seconds and then fell asleep. I also put a fan on for white noise. I have not heard a peep from her since! Yesterday she woke up several times during the night..The sirens didn't help. Then around 5 when my husband got up to get ready for work she woke up again and I took her into the bed with me and nursed her back to sleep, and she stayed asleep until 8, which is her usual wakeup time. I think that I am going to keep doing it this way and hopefully it will work for us. I don't want to let her cry it out, but I do want her to learn to put herself to sleep in her crib. The no cry sleep solution book and the Sleep lady book could have been written by the same person, because they both say essentially the same thing-that when you change a baby's routine, the baby will cry at first(Dr. Gordon says the same as well), they both make the same points about sleep cycles, offer alot of the same solutions as well...I got the no cry book today and I am halfway through it already. I think I am going to blend the Dr. Gordon method with the other two and see how it goes. So, I will put her to bed at 7 p.m. after nursing her, then if she wakes up any time before 11, I will nurse her back to drowsiness and put her back in the crib and rub her back til she falls asleep-which shouldn't take more than a minute if I have done it correctly. If she wakes up after 11, I will go to her, but try not to nurse her. And then, when my husband gets up in the morning(he will most likely wake her up, since her crib is in our room, across from the bathroom.) I will take her into the bed and nurse her back to sleep.. Maydaymom, it sounds like you had a similar night!! Hope things are going well tonight.

[P.J.]

IMO letting a baby cry in bed while patting, rubbing his back, singing, etc is not the same as CIO because you are not abandoning the baby to cry alone. For me some physical touch in that situation would be essential, so they do know you are there.

However, I personally cannot use this approach. I tried it once when DS awoke at 3am and wanted to play...and then I was like: what am I doing? He is hurting in some way, and I need to comfort him until it works. So I picked him up and nursed him and he fell asleep after a short while.

I have to say also that I don't see this as a one-size-fits-all kind of situation. I've read a lot on this forum and heard desperate parents who haven't slept in months and tried everything known to man to help their baby sleep. I can see how, if an older baby has major major sleep issues and nothing else has worked, this may be the last resort. And I would advise using it with caution, as there are different types of crying. A baby crying "I don't like this" is different than a baby who needs something, is distressed or physically painful crying. I think this method is only at all advisable if it's that "I don't like this" crying, and only as a very last resort.

But again: IMO there's a big difference between abandoning a baby to cry alone, and being there with your presence, physical touch and soothing voice ~but just not actually picking baby up. But it's still "letting a baby cry" and I just would advise being very careful when and how to do that, if at all.

[Bebe's Mom]

Last night was soo much better!! DD slept for about 5 hours in a row! She woke up around 2:30 for only a minute, I went over to her and patted her back and she went right back to sleep. Then she woke up at 4:30, I nursed her and then put her back in the crib and she slept until 6:30, I took her into the bed and nursed her and she fell back asleep until 7:30.
I still want to night wean her, but I will take two nursings over six any day of the week!

[maydaymom10]

Last night was better for us as well -- although I didn't get 5 hours. Maybe tonight. DH woke at 2 -- nursed him for a couple of minutes & he went right back down. Then he was up at 4. I did a full nursing then, but he really wasn't hungry so I think I might not worry about it tonight. Unfortunatly he was up at 6. I brought him into bed with me, but he was basically up and not interested in sleep. Usually we get up between 7 & 7:30, so this was a bit of a bummer.

So, 2-3 hours compared to 1 --- baby steps, right?? Also, there really was no crying last night. I think tonight will be the last night for the quick nursings & I'll try just holding & rocking. We'll see how it goes.

[skfmama]

I'm not sure if this is NCSS, but I'm also working on improving DS's sleep, since the waking every two hours (or more frequently) to nurse is driving me crazy. Literally.

So I'm trying to gradually limit his nursing at night (he's only 7mo, so I don't want to completely nightwean). 10 min at every nursing after he goes down for the night, and 8 min between 11-5. I'll decrease the amount of time for the first nursing after 11 with the hopes of DH taking over that waking in a few weeks, so I can at least get one stretch of sleep. And I'm trying to rock, not nurse, if he wakes up more frequently than 2 hours - it drives me crazy that he sometimes nurses more frequently at night than during the day.

So hopefully he'll shift getting those night calories to the day and be okay with not nursing at night...and then stop waking up as much. I won't try hard to fully nightwean until after a year...but even a little bit of progress (waking up 2 or 3 times a night instead of 4 or 5) sounds great.

He sleeps in his own room in a crib and naps pretty well (although I do sometimes extend his nap by nursing him if he wakes up before about 1.5 hours). I do nurse down for every nap, which works great and I don't necessarily want to fix. Sometimes he doesn't want to nurse to sleep, so I rock him. Sometimes he wakes up when I transfer him to the crib, so I pat his butt and keep a hand on his shoulder, firmly, like I would if I were holding him. It works. But only once or twice have I been able to get him to go back to sleep without picking him up.

[JudiAU]

Yes, it was very helpful with my older son but frankly, I am not going to bother with the second. I struggled and was just really wrapped up in trying to do gentle sleep whatever. We all would have gotten more sleep if I had co-slept but without DH. DH's stress actually made the issue so awful for us all.

With the second, I cosleep with the baby. He has his own bed that allows him to get good sleep for school and work. He responds to our son if he needs to go to the bathroom. I sleep with the baby and it is SO MUCH EASIER. DH still grouches about his bed but really, really we all get more sleep.

This baby doesn't nurse to sleep. Have you tried bouncing your baby on a ball? Really helpful and easy for DH.

[maydaymom10]

Progress!! I got two decent spans of sleep last night - 11 to 1 and then 4 to 8. We had a bad time around 3, was up for about an hour, but little crying.

I had the monitor on last night since I'm staying down the hall (DH has the stomach flu), and I did let him fuss for a bit at times. He would make some just coo-ing noises, fuss for about 30 secs, then quiet down. I'd finally go in when the fussing started intensifying and it really sounded like he was getting upset. Pantley emphasizes learning the difference between night noises and crying -- I'm assuming this is what she was talking about. We'll see how tonight goes. I'm going to try not to nurse him from 11 until 3 or 4. I'll just try rocking and patting if he wakes up before then. Hope everyone else got a little sleep as well.

[k8chambers]

Originally Posted by Bebe's Mom

I am mad at myself, because I feel like I created this situation.

I'm having all the similar problems described in everyone's posts. I have an 11 month old, slept through the night until she was 8 months old and since then it's been a nightmare. But I think possibly the worst is hearing from the pediatrician that I brought it on myself by nursing her down. As awful as that makes me feel and hopeless about the situation, I feel outraged that someone else make such a strong judgment about my decision of what is right for my baby. Yes, maybe I contributed to this situation and now it will require work to change, but if I hadn't done this one thing wrong, I'm sure it would have been something else...

Ok, that's my rant. I have the No-Cry Sleep solution....tried implementing a few things, such as a strict routine (bath, lotion, change into jammies, 3 books, nurse, lights out), transitional object, trying to wean her off of my holding and comforting her slowly. Can't say I've had any luck, though in the time I've been trying the baby has gotten two colds and has been too congested to breathe in her sleep and has gotten two teeth, which keeps her up.

I have been pretty much at my wits end, but I read that link above to Dr. Gordon and it made me feel better. Especially the part about not trying to change a baby's sleep in the first year. I think I might try his method after she turns 1. So far, I haven't been able to tolerate any crying, but I'm willing to give it a shot if it really works and it might mean some sleep for me!