The Constitution in school

[MissSJ]

Hi everyone,
I am constantly hearing from my MIL and from a friend of mine that the Constitution is no longer taught in schools. Since my boys are not old enough for myself to have direct experience with this I was hoping that some of you could tell me about this. I just told my MIL that it is hard for me to believe they don't teach this in schools today and that perhaps the problem is that kids just aren't that interested so they aren't retaining what they learn - but since I don't have direct experience I don't know.

So for those of you who do have direct experience, what is your opinion of the teaching of the Constitution in schools today? Do they teach it sufficiently? Has the quality of teaching this topic gone down over the past 20 years?

ETA: if you select "No" please add additional information - where does your child go to school? what grade is your child in? what do they teach about the revolutionary period and our country's founding?

[Chamomile Girl]

Well, I voted other because I agree with two of the answers. In California high schools the Constutition is taught during senior year as part of the Poli-Sci/Econ Social Studies curriculum. I believe the thinking here is to teach it as late as possible so that it is retained, and so that students are immersed in it right before they are released onto the world as voters. But at the same time I wish students learned it earlier...because as a World History teacher myself (sophomore year) not having that context to draw upon is often problamatic.

The way it is taught will vary considerably teacher to teacher, so I can't say much to that.

[2xy]

I voted "other."

My kids are homeschooled. I have no idea what they're teaching in the public schools.

However, I went to public school and do not recall learning about the Constitution. I graduated in 1989, and in my senior year I even took AP U.S. History. The Constitution was briefly touched on as an important document, but we certainly did not study it.

[lach]

I'm wondering what she means by the Constitution being taught.

When I was a kid, we had to memorize the preamble in 4th or maybe 5th grade. It was also covered in 8th and 11th grade US history. But we never had to take any specific government courses and we never really learned about it in a stand-alone way. We learned about it in the context of US history... so the original document and the separation of powers and all that at first, and then the bill of rights, and then each amendment as it came up.

The way that she's complaining about it, it sounds like that's not really what she's going for, but that's how it was taught when I was a kid and I'm pretty sure the school district I live in now does it the same way (maybe not memorizing the preamble... I don't think that really counts as "learning about the constitution")

[MissSJ]

Good question lach!
I started thinking about this too after I posted the first post. On further thought I think when she says Constitution she means - the freedoms in the Constitution/Bill of Rights, the historical context, the issues surrounding the Revolutionary War, the Declaration of Independence, the writing of the Constitution and the issues surrounding it, the founders, the Bill of Rights, Federalists/Anti-federalists, etc. To be honest, MIL is parroting what she hears from a certain political personality whom shall not be named since I do not want to derail the thread. Basically she truly believes these things are not taught in schools today.

I remember learning these things in school little by little culminating in American History in 11th grade and American Government in 12th - both required to graduate. To be honest I didn't remember many specifics (seems so long ago!) but I now have an interest and am taking a college course in American History.

[Linda on the move]

In the public school my kids attended last year, 7th graders had to pass a test on the constitution in order to pass 7th grade. The content of the test was very similar to the study guide for the citizenship test (which my DH took last year). The test over the constitution for citizenship ended up being easier than the 7th grade test. (DH and DD studied together and compared.)

The topic for 7th grade SS was early US history, and the contitution was a separate study at the end of the year, so it was put in context, but also studied as a stand alone.

I thought her teacher did a really super job with a difficult task.

[AZ mom&teacher]

I have taught 4th grade for many years and always teach it... the bill of rights, constitution, revolutionary war, the whys and whats of that time. It's in the AZ standards that it be taught here in 4th grade.

[Wild Lupine]

My kids aren't old enough to answer from their experience, but when I was in school we learned about it in a general way in sixth grade, then again in eighth. And in 11th grade US History - a graduation requirement - we went through the entire thing, amendment by amendment.

I think all states put their educational standards on-line, you can search your state's dept of education and find out what kids are expected to have been taught by grade level. How effectively they are taught would vary from teacher to teacher and school to school, but you should be able to answer your MIL's assertion that it isn't taught at all any more.

[Chamomile Girl]

In other words "He Who Must Not be Named" is full of hooey.

[MissSJ]

Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl

In other words "He Who Must Not be Named" is full of hooey.

I agree.

[MissSJ]

To the people who selected "No" in the poll - what grade is your child in? They don't mention the Constitution at all or the period surrounding it at your local district? What state are you in? Come back and tell me more!

Unless you are not in the US!

[straighthaircurly]

Minnesota state standards excerpts:

Grades 4-8
"1. Students will know and understand basic principles of the new government established by the Constitution of the United States.
2. Students will know reasons why the United States developed the Constitution, including the debates and compromises that led to the final document."

Grades 9-12
"1. Students will identify and explain the basic principles that were set forth in the documents that declared the nation’s independence (the Declaration of Independence, inalienable rights and self-evident truths) and that established the new nation’s government (the Constitution)."

"1. Equality, “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,” rule of law, government based on consent, republic, balance of powers, federation
2. The provisions of the Articles of Confederation, Northwest Ordinance; disposal of western lands, foreign relations and trade, Shays’ Rebellion, Constitutional Convention; alternative plans and compromises in drafting and approving the Constitution; Federalist and Anti-Federalist arguments; arguments about the necessity of a Bill of Rights and James Madison’s role in its adoption"

"13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the Constitution, debates over them, and interpretations of them by the Supreme Court"

"2. Students will analyze the debates about woman suffrage and demonstrate knowledge of the successful campaign that led to the adoption of the 19th Amendment granting women the right to vote."


Note: the excerpts are just pulled straight from our standards hence the double numbering, etc.
I believe they do not study the Constitution in-depth as a stand alone topic, but instead discuss, study, and learn about it in the greater context of our history as a nation. The various Amendments are taught as they reach that point in the history "timeline"

My son is only 7 so I have not seen how the teaching takes place and how much "sticks".

[CatsCradle]

I'm wondering what she means by the Constitution being taught.

When I was a kid, we had to memorize the preamble in 4th or maybe 5th grade. It was also covered in 8th and 11th grade US history. But we never had to take any specific government courses and we never really learned about it in a stand-alone way. We learned about it in the context of US history... so the original document and the separation of powers and all that at first, and then the bill of rights, and then each amendment as it came up.

The way that she's complaining about it, it sounds like that's not really what she's going for, but that's how it was taught when I was a kid and I'm pretty sure the school district I live in now does it the same way (maybe not memorizing the preamble... I don't think that really counts as "learning about the constitution")

Excellent post, Lach.

Actually, you can memorize the original Constitution all you want (the actual document), but since we our legal society is based on precedent, one can only fully appreciate the Constitution and Constitutional law if one understands all the peripheral stuff that defines our legal rights and limitations, including case law. Conveniently, the people calling themselves Constitutional purists tend to leave out our our valuable legal precedent, and concentrate on the memorization of the document itself (Constitutional fundamentalists, so to speak). They tend to forget that the Constitution was drafted by individuals who were versed in English legal principles (English, as is British), and who understood the principles of precedent (the importance of case law and law as both a static and organic process).

Okay, off soap box. We memorized certain Constitution portions in high school, and I believe that it is the standard now. I'd like to see more of a push to understanding constitutional law in high school. Maybe it could be offered by local lawyers as a special course. When I took constitutional law in law school - it was over a three year period and I spent 100s of hours on this, so there's no way that i covered in high school in the same way. An overview would be good. I don't think most high schools have the time, knowledge or resources to do this without outside help.

In conclusion, I find Americans' understanding of Constitutional law woefully deficient, and I'm not talking about young kids. Somewhere along the way we (in the U.S.) really failed. There needs to be more.

[Bekka]

Honestly I can't remember what we learned about the Constitution when, in middle/high school. Our school had US History in 10th grade, and US Govt. in 11th grade, and we learned in detail all about the structure of the govt., legislative, etc. and I think the constitution study went along with that.

I learned the absolute MOST about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights when I was doing speech and LD debate, and learned how to frame an argument, and we loved it when we found something constitutional to address the debate topic.

[Bekka]

My children are in 1st, 5th and 7th grades, and I don't know how much of the Constitution they have learned. In 4th grade they talk about the Virginia document (can't remember what it was called) that inspired the declaration of independence, and our kids have learned the preamble for fun, but I don't know what exposure Virginia's curriculum has for the constitution. They ask questions like "how old do you have to be to be president," and so we get out our copy of the Constitution. We'll probably "home" teach them more sooner than they'll get in school.

[stik]

I teach history in a public high school in AZ.

My classes cover the constitution at the following points:

World History and Geography - US Constitution as part of the Enlightenment (Montesquieu, Locke, impacts on revolutions)
American/Arizona History - Founding of the US. Detailed history of the framing of the Constitution with examination of the principles involved in both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Detailed examination of amendments to the constitution throughout the year as the class covers the historical events involved.

All of this is preliminary to the course that *really* teaches the Constitution - American government, which students take in their senior year. I don't teach that one, but the standards for it deal extensively with the Constitution.

Per state law, teachers are also supposed to address the Constitution in every class all day on Constitution Day, which is 9/17, or on the school day closest to it. I don't know how they handle that in math classes, but we get all-staff emails about our obligation every year in September.

[whatsnextmom]

In our local CA district, Constitution is 8th grade and it's a big deal. In fact, kids start talking about "the constitution test" in 6th and 7th grade. It's also an "event" in that they do lots of courtroom re-inactiments, and such throughout the year. The kids really leave 8th having a good idea of what it says and how it's changed over the years (and why.)

It does come up prior to that too in elementary. They do a unit of it in 5th grade but not to the same extent.

[lauren]

I think kids might tune out a bit when they are studying it because they don't understand how it is relevant. I think it's taught thoroughly though.

[lach]

Originally Posted by lauren

I think kids might tune out a bit when they are studying it because they don't understand how it is relevant. I think it's taught thoroughly though.

I think this is true. I also think that most kids don't really have any clue how other systems work, so when they study the Constitution they don't really understand what makes it important. It's a combination of "normal" (we elect a president every four years. Big whoop. Everyone knows that) and sort of random stuff that doesn't really seem all that relevant to anything.

It wasn't until I was in college that I learned anything about the Articles of Confederation besides "oh, yeah, there was some other system they tried and it didn't work because different states had different currencies and that got confusing." And I certainly didn't learn anything about the parliamentary system until I was an adult. And I was a pretty well educated and well travelled kid, all things considered. As an adult who also happens to be something of a history and politics buff, the more I learn about the historical context of the creation of the Constitution, and the systems that other countries have, the more I understand why our government works the way it does and the more I understand just how special it was at the time of its creation, and how unique it still is. If anything, I think that kids should learn more about other systems of government, so they have a better understanding of ours!

[LynnS6]

Sounds like your MIL is listening to some biased views. It is taught. Repeatedly.

These are our district's curricular goals for 5th grade:

• Define ways that Americans share certain values, principles, and beliefs.
• Identify essential ideas of our republican form of government as expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
• Define “rule of law.”
• Identify fundamental values, principles, or expressions of patriotism.
• Identify the roles and responsibilities of the three branches of government.
• Know how a bill becomes a law.
• Compare the primary functions of federal, state and local governments.
• Identify basic rights given to citizens of the United States.
• Identify and give examples of actions citizens can take to influence government policy and decision making.
• Explain how different ways of governments are organized.
• Explain how nations interact with one another.
• Identify the benefits of diversity.
• Explain how conflicts should be prevented and managed.

Here are the relevant ones from 6-8th grade:

• Demonstrate knowledge of the principles, structures, and functions of government in a democratic society
  • Sixth Grade: Understand the differences between the structures of varying forms of government.
  • Seventh Grade: What is the function of government? Choose one culture and demonstrate how this works in practice.
  • Eighth Grade: How did the ideas of the John Locke and the French philosophers help shape the principles in the US Constitution?

They also teach about civil discourse, rights and responsibilities as a citizen and other elements of functioning in a democratic society.

Find the webpage for your local school district. Their curricular standards will be there. I bet you can find them and demonstrate that she's wrong. "They don't teach the Constitution" is something I hear from people who don't have kids in the school system or who don't actually understand the Constitution all that well.