Saucy, whiny, very rude 6yo - aargh!

[AllisonR]

Not sure if it is age. DS has just turned 6. Or because he just started school, so he is exposed to way more attitude and language than when he was in K. Or a combination.

Both DH and I are tired of the nasty attitude and whining and repeating ourselves. I believe in natural consequences, but I often can't often figure out what that should be. These are the main problems, which I think have gotten much worse in the last couple of months.

1. Being really saucy. Calling me, DH, DD... "stupid", "fart", "horsesh*t".... When I ask him what he said or to stop, he says "Sorry" or "Excuse me" - but in a totally sarcastic way - which, imo, makes it even worse. I ask him how he would feel if I call him stupid, and he says he wouldn't like it. But then 5 seconds later he does it again.

2. Constant whining and really rude behavior. He will say "I want milk" in a whining voice, instead of "may I please have some milk?" For goodness sake, my 3 yo gets it that she gets more bees with honey than with vinegar, yet I can't get my 6 yo to understand this. My answer is "No, not until you ask nicely" or "I don't understand whine." Then he will rephrase, but literally 15 seconds later he starts up again. AAARRGGGGHHHHH!

3. He choses not to hear me. I ask him to come and do something, like put his plate in the dishwasher after dinner, and he ignores me. So I have to repeat myself 2 or 3 times, and end up raising my voice out of frustration. Funny how I can ask if he wants ice cream and he can instantly hear me and come running, but I ask something he is not interested in, then he ignores me. If I say "did you hear me" or "what did I say" he just says "I don't know." Repeat multiple times a day. UGh. I feel like pulling my hair out! I'd love to do a natural consequence here, but I don't know what that is if he doesn't put on his coat or put his dish in the dishwasher.

4. Playing with food. For example putting carrots sticks out of his mouth as fangs or flopping his lettuce around and shredding it to bits. We have been casual about food, and maybe that is the problem; because I can see the grey area between a one time joke and gross behavior, but maybe he can not? So I ask him to stop. He continues. I ask again, raising my voice. But when I think, what is the natural consequences - him not eating, I don't want to do that. I mean, if he is playing with chocolate and ice cream, taking it away is logical. But over carrots, broccoli, lettuce - I'd rather let him eat it. Hmm, I realize as I write this that he never plays with ice cream.

My little boy is growing up, and that is fine. But I want him to have common curtsey and respect for others, and I am just not seeing it. And my methods are not working, because nothing is sinking in.

[waiting2bemommy]

would you consider it a natural consequence to send him away from everyone else? If his room is too much fun, then send him somewhere else. I have been known to send my almost 3 yo to sit on my bed (with a book, if I'm in a really forgiving mood!) for a while when he gets like that. He has never called me horsesh-t and I assure that if he did what would happen would be a UAV on this forum!!! But he does call me poopyhead and get that tone to his voice and the overal sassiness and disresepct like you mentioned.

I fiure it is a natural consequence because I wouldn't eb around anyone else woh talked to me like that and I'm not going to be around him. So one of us needs to leave until we can have a pleasant interaction.

I would take the food away from him, send him from the table, and save it in a container. Only thing you can't save is cold cereal. anything else can be saved and offered again at the next meal. He won't starve. If he gets hungry enough he will eat. In my family this is not a punishment but a necessity because we are often struggling to put food ont he table, so we save leftovers.

[tjlucca]

Originally Posted by AllisonR

Not sure if it is age. DS has just turned 6. Or because he just started school, so he is exposed to way more attitude and language than when he was in K. Or a combination.

Both DH and I are tired of the nasty attitude and whining and repeating ourselves. I believe in natural consequences, but I often can't often figure out what that should be. These are the main problems, which I think have gotten much worse in the last couple of months.

1. Being really saucy. Calling me, DH, DD... "stupid", "fart", "horsesh*t".... When I ask him what he said or to stop, he says "Sorry" or "Excuse me" - but in a totally sarcastic way - which, imo, makes it even worse. I ask him how he would feel if I call him stupid, and he says he wouldn't like it. But then 5 seconds later he does it again.

2. Constant whining and really rude behavior. He will say "I want milk" in a whining voice, instead of "may I please have some milk?" For goodness sake, my 3 yo gets it that she gets more bees with honey than with vinegar, yet I can't get my 6 yo to understand this. My answer is "No, not until you ask nicely" or "I don't understand whine." Then he will rephrase, but literally 15 seconds later he starts up again. AAARRGGGGHHHHH!

3. He choses not to hear me. I ask him to come and do something, like put his plate in the dishwasher after dinner, and he ignores me. So I have to repeat myself 2 or 3 times, and end up raising my voice out of frustration. Funny how I can ask if he wants ice cream and he can instantly hear me and come running, but I ask something he is not interested in, then he ignores me. If I say "did you hear me" or "what did I say" he just says "I don't know." Repeat multiple times a day. UGh. I feel like pulling my hair out! I'd love to do a natural consequence here, but I don't know what that is if he doesn't put on his coat or put his dish in the dishwasher.

4. Playing with food. For example putting carrots sticks out of his mouth as fangs or flopping his lettuce around and shredding it to bits. We have been casual about food, and maybe that is the problem; because I can see the grey area between a one time joke and gross behavior, but maybe he can not? So I ask him to stop. He continues. I ask again, raising my voice. But when I think, what is the natural consequences - him not eating, I don't want to do that. I mean, if he is playing with chocolate and ice cream, taking it away is logical. But over carrots, broccoli, lettuce - I'd rather let him eat it. Hmm, I realize as I write this that he never plays with ice cream.

My little boy is growing up, and that is fine. But I want him to have common curtsey and respect for others, and I am just not seeing it. And my methods are not working, because nothing is sinking in.

Have you read "Love and Logic"? I was going through so much of this with DD until I read the original book, I believe it was the original one. Thank god I did, I felt angry at DD almost all the time! Which I then felt guilty about. Any way, we do much better now. I address the behavior easily and it ends there. Though these instances are rare now, luckily.

Here is an example.

DD: I don't want to pick up my toys, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me: It's your choice sweetie, but remember Mama keeps the toys that Mama picks up. I love you either way.



DD: (exceptionally whinny voice) I don't want that for dinnerrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Me: Those who are grateful and respectful may join me at the table.


DD: (random whinning and complaining)

Me:Feel free to use that tone of voice in your own space (DD's Room). I will be happy to talk when I am feeling respected.


This has worked wonders for us. I am not consistently mad at DD anymore and she really doesn't try to push my buttons as it doesn't go anywhere for her now. Good Luck!

[MommytoB]

TJlucca-too bad it's not as easy to do that when you get kids that are stubbornly determined so there has to be something that will get them not to do it.

In their homes I don't see problems with children playing with their food but at some place else like in another home or at a restaurant I see a problem with it . I learned if you point it out say don't do that or stop that right now they will continue so before you leave you should say We Use Our Manners when we are out that means we are Polite with Please and thank You . We do not play with food in someones else house or at a restaurant . We eat as you eat with your school table manners!

Some kids at home may use gross table manners then if that is the case I'm for sure in some homes there is like a kitchen table then a island or a dining table then if that habbit is too gross for you because I would remember mom gross habbit picking out chickken putting them on her plate of chewed up fat chicken she even did that at restaurants when you mentioned it she would say don't look and she still does it !

The smart talk would be like not paying attention say boys with not nice words do not get what they want to get or to do things they want to do .

Anyhow, the demanding I would just say what's the magic word or what do you say when you want me to give you something because no matter how much demanding they do i will make sure he says please before he gets anything he wants and he has to say thank you afterwards .

the not hearing is a tough one I still need to figure that one out even though I go to him say Repeat what I said if he said I don't know because who knows if he may actually remember because kids have plenty of things on their minds like maybe a good tv show, a toy that they can't wait to play with , reading a great book, playing a game that is on the DS , WII or Xbox, or even to play with friends !

It's easy to forget to do something when there is something else to do even if it's thing that should be done instead of saying You forgot or you were supposed too ask at the table as What do you do with our plates, silverware when we are done eating then that way your son will be able to answer then with him knowing the answer it may help him remember automatically .

The same thing is to use the questions of the Where or What do you do with your toys or clothes that way they can rember the answer and yeah they may forget once in awhile but everyone forgets but our kids are still more aware of responsiblity now which is a heavy plate because they have more tasks they need to do and it's tough to remember them all when your mind may be only thinking of dinosaurs, star wars, ben 10, transformers or all the holidays that is coming up!

[meemee]

dont insist too much mama dear.

i expect this is hormones at play.

he is just the right age for it.

prepuberty issues.

by 6 my dd already had body odor.

just hang in there. this is the last hurrah before babyhood is completely gone and you suddenly will have a ds who wont throw a fit at your no's. instead he might offer can i do this instead because then....

so be silly. join him. are you insisting by the way he eat his veggies?

figure out another way to serve those. my wonderful eater started teh phase of no veggies at 7.

have patience. do what it takes to take care of yourself and meet your needs so you can have compassion towards ds rather than frustration. you just have to hang for a little bit.

he will suddenly turn the switch on you when you are least expecting.

[tjlucca]

Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy

would you consider it a natural consequence to send him away from everyone else? If his room is too much fun, then send him somewhere else. I have been known to send my almost 3 yo to sit on my bed (with a book, if I'm in a really forgiving mood!) for a while when he gets like that. He has never called me horsesh-t and I assure that if he did what would happen would be a UAV on this forum!!! But he does call me poopyhead and get that tone to his voice and the overal sassiness and disresepct like you mentioned.

I fiure it is a natural consequence because I wouldn't eb around anyone else woh talked to me like that and I'm not going to be around him. So one of us needs to leave until we can have a pleasant interaction.

I would take the food away from him, send him from the table, and save it in a container. Only thing you can't save is cold cereal. anything else can be saved and offered again at the next meal. He won't starve. If he gets hungry enough he will eat. In my family this is not a punishment but a necessity because we are often struggling to put food ont he table, so we save leftovers.

[mizliz72]

DSD (or DD since I'm her only living mom, but that's another post...) is nearly 7 and aside from the name-calling she does pretty much everything you just listed. I have had a very difficult time with her and I assume it's because I don't have the extra biological connection to her that keeps me from disliking her at times. However, I keep telling myself it is normal and age-related (even though honestly I've been having a hard time since she was about 4 or 5, after people keep telling me what a wonderful age it is!) and that I am not the only one dealing with it.

[Callimom]

I'd probably go on the assumption that it is related to changes in his routine (I am assuming gr 1 is more school than K was) and the resulting changes in his ability and opportunity to connect with you.

We experienced a real shift in our relationship with my oldest when he transitioned to grade 1. It came out in other ways but it was terrible all the way around and we now homeschool in part because of that.

Have you ever read Hold on to your kids by Gordon Neufeld? I would highly recommend it. The premise is that as children spend more and more time with other children the relationship between adult and child can become compromised. Children start attaching to other children and taking their socialization cues from their peer group rather than the influential adults in their lives. I think in your situation I would work first on really trying to connect deeply with him.

I would also be doing a lot of talking about expectations around how family is to be treated and a lot of work towards him understanding the effort that goes into running a home and how he can contribute to that. I would make sure he has chores and that there are clear and enforced expectations around helping in the home. At six he can help prepare food, set and clear the table, help with sweeping up etc. He shouldn't have the opportunity to ignore you - it should just be part of the routine and expectations of your family.

As for the name calling - I have a hard time with that. It's not something that I have encountered with my own kids. I know many people say just to ignore it but for me personally I think that kind of disrespect errodes family relationships and can be a prelude to a really unhealthy dynamic.

One thing that has really worked for our family is the concept of family rules. When our kids were 2, 4, 4 and 7 we had a family meeting and came up with some family rules. The ideas came from the kids and then we helped simplify and consolidate them to make them really workable in a variety of situations. They cover being helpful, kind, respectful, use words to solve problem and respect/do what Mum and Dad ask. Honestly they are absolutely one of the best parenting tools we have and I am regularly pleasantly surprised at how well they work for us.

Good luck
Karen

[philomom]

I agree more with the love and logic approach. As your child sees the consequences of his bad choices... he will gradually make better ones.

[Petie1104]

Originally Posted by AllisonR

Not sure if it is age. DS has just turned 6. Or because he just started school, so he is exposed to way more attitude and language than when he was in K. Or a combination.

Both DH and I are tired of the nasty attitude and whining and repeating ourselves. I believe in natural consequences, but I often can't often figure out what that should be. These are the main problems, which I think have gotten much worse in the last couple of months.

1. Being really saucy. Calling me, DH, DD... "stupid", "fart", "horsesh*t".... When I ask him what he said or to stop, he says "Sorry" or "Excuse me" - but in a totally sarcastic way - which, imo, makes it even worse. I ask him how he would feel if I call him stupid, and he says he wouldn't like it. But then 5 seconds later he does it again.

2. Constant whining and really rude behavior. He will say "I want milk" in a whining voice, instead of "may I please have some milk?" For goodness sake, my 3 yo gets it that she gets more bees with honey than with vinegar, yet I can't get my 6 yo to understand this. My answer is "No, not until you ask nicely" or "I don't understand whine." Then he will rephrase, but literally 15 seconds later he starts up again. AAARRGGGGHHHHH!

3. He choses not to hear me. I ask him to come and do something, like put his plate in the dishwasher after dinner, and he ignores me. So I have to repeat myself 2 or 3 times, and end up raising my voice out of frustration. Funny how I can ask if he wants ice cream and he can instantly hear me and come running, but I ask something he is not interested in, then he ignores me. If I say "did you hear me" or "what did I say" he just says "I don't know." Repeat multiple times a day. UGh. I feel like pulling my hair out! I'd love to do a natural consequence here, but I don't know what that is if he doesn't put on his coat or put his dish in the dishwasher.

4. Playing with food. For example putting carrots sticks out of his mouth as fangs or flopping his lettuce around and shredding it to bits. We have been casual about food, and maybe that is the problem; because I can see the grey area between a one time joke and gross behavior, but maybe he can not? So I ask him to stop. He continues. I ask again, raising my voice. But when I think, what is the natural consequences - him not eating, I don't want to do that. I mean, if he is playing with chocolate and ice cream, taking it away is logical. But over carrots, broccoli, lettuce - I'd rather let him eat it. Hmm, I realize as I write this that he never plays with ice cream.

My little boy is growing up, and that is fine. But I want him to have common curtsey and respect for others, and I am just not seeing it. And my methods are not working, because nothing is sinking in.

Ok, so here is what we do, and have done...

If you speak rudely, or whine, you have to walk away from me until you feel you can ask politely. DD went a whole morning until lunch before she stopped screaming at me to give her a glass of juice.

Instead of speaking to him across the room, either call him to you or go to him. Get on his level and look him in the eyes. Give him one thing at a time, so for instance..."You need to put your plate in the dishwasher". Then ask him to repeat what you said. If he starts whining or refusing then simply say, " are you able to do it yourself or do you need my help?" If he still refuses, take his hand and say, "I guess you need some help, here let's go to the table and get your plate" If he refuses to pick up the plate, then guide his hand to his plate, etc. You get the idea. He will eventually learn it is just easier to do what you say than to keep ignoring you.

In my home, if you play with food then you have to leave the table, you can return when you are ready to eat, or when you come tell me that you are done.

We are non-punitive and these are the types of things we do. They even work with our difficult child. Hopefully at least some of this will help.

[Petie1104]

Originally Posted by philomom

I agree more with the love and logic approach. As your child sees the consequences of his bad choices... he will gradually make better ones.

We use more of a love and logic approach to our teen, but for our smaller ones, they haven't gotten to the point of putting all together yet.

[hadleys_mom]

Can anyone pass on the authors name of the Love and Logic book? I did a google search but found a lot books with similar titles.

[Petie1104]

Foster Cline and Jim Fay The full title is actually "Parenting With Love and Logic". There are alot of follow up books, but that is the main one.

[hadleys_mom]

Originally Posted by Petie1104

Foster Cline and Jim Fay The full title is actually "Parenting With Love and Logic". There are alot of follow up books, but that is the main one.

Thank you!!

[bobandjess99]

i think its the age..we have a "support group" going at work, lol, because a bunch of us have 6 yo, and OMG, we ALL want to kill them. We talk longingly about how there should be a 6 yo boarding school to ship them off to, lol. It seems to be extremely normal. And we haqve kids at public school, private sachool, M school, and homeschooled. Doesn't seem to make a difference.

[Mere]

My ds1 - age 6! - does all those things...or would like to do all those things if I let him! He's a challenge to be sure, and the way I deal with it is to make a few rules and be 100% consistent in following them at all times. Some of the rules are really specific, like at dinner the rules are no nonsense talk, your bottom has to be on the chair, and no playing with your food. If I let any of those things slide, chaos erupts very quickly (especially between ds1 & ds2).

We talk about respect A LOT. All the time in fact. I try to be repetitive and not too wordy. I hope that he is internalizing some of it, because for all the talking we do about respect his behavior does not always show it. I'm not a fan of time-outs, but we use them as a discipline method because I don't know what else to do. Anyhow, name-calling is an automatic time-out and he has to apologize to the victim. He generally doesn't name-call anymore in front of dh or me, but I know he does it some with ds2 or dd when I'm not around. SIGH...

Whining - ugh. I have no solution. I try to ignore it, but when they follow you around it's difficult to do. Often he loses privileges or gets a time-out because of whining.

I am definitely going to check out the Love and Logic book!

[jilly]

Has my son moved in with you?

He also just turned 6 and we are getting the same emotional eruptions - only he is also sneakily hitting his brother when we're not watching, and screams whenever we refuse him anything.

This morning dh held him for 30 min. because he would not stop screaming and refusing to go outside and play (when he was waaay to rowdy to be in the house and had been refusing to be quiet all morning - we have neighbours upstairs and downstairs, so yelling in the house is not acceptable). I was crying this morning because I am so exhausted from the defiance, and I'm a substitute teacher right now, so I go to work and deal with kids being defiant all day and then come home to the same.

I deal with the ignoring thing by telling him once and then making him repeat it back to me, "So, what do you need to do now?".

I am trying to laugh and have a sense of humour and enjoy him when he is in a good mood so he knows he is loved, and spend extra time talking to him. But boy, are we having a lot of escalating power struggles these days.

So glad to know i"m not alone.

[One_Girl]

I think a lot of it is age and starting school. My dd tests boundaries for several weeks when school starts again then she is fine. I don't really do a lot different. I stay consistent about expectations, boundaries, and the way I parent and she goes back to her normal self. I will say that I have gradually moved towards more of a Love and Logic type approach as dd has grown older, though not completely. I also really like the Raising a Thinking PreTeen Approach a lot and am trying to implement it more.

[HappilyEvrAfter]

+1

We're going through it here too. DS turned 6 at the end of Sept.
Lots of little emotions heaped on top of trying to find his place in the world...with a touch of sporadic regression.
Fun times.

L&L with LOTS of patience....and lots and LOTs of discussions.

And praise when it's done things are done correctly. This seems to have helped with those "I'm pretending not to hear you" times. I give him the dramatic, over showering, playful "OMG! You heard me! And you did it! Holy geeze! For reeeeeeeal?!?" (not sacarsm, more playful parenting).

But, I hear ya and feel ya.

[jilly]

oh yeah, also, the one thing I'm finding fun about this age is that I can use more humour to diffuse the whiny / demanding stuff. He actually "gets" a little bit of sarcasm or irony now, but he has to stop and think about it, so it takes him off track. I remember my Dad used to do this with me when I was in a mood, and when I remember to do it, it usually helps.