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post #61 of 116

Let me ask at Delaware Riverkeeper Network and see what they say. I will try to get back to you in a week or two -- our stream monitoring person is on vacation for the next couple of weeks so I may not be able to get an answer ASAP. (But if you're in NY you really do have time to figure it out -- with the SGEIS release, it's still not complete, and there are going to have to be regulations written before any gas drilling a occur).

Originally Posted by tri31 View Post

Quirky? Do you know about base line water testing? I/we can't defend our water (our birthright) without one.

My local health dept has this list posted


Do these entities test for both the naturally occuring pathogens (that drilling opens a pathway for) and the industrial hazards released by fracking?

I am at home with four kids, thank you praying.gif.

Like most of us, we can't piss away a dime. Any thoughts on where to get our testing done? 


post #62 of 116
Thread Starter 
post #63 of 116
post #64 of 116
Thread Starter 

NYS dept of transportation cautions DSGEIS does not address many gas traffic impacts and unless revised impinges state and local ability to remediate problems.




Document link




tonight is the town of Vestal's opportunity to say "no to drilling".

7pm at the town hall be early, if you want to speak.

post #65 of 116
Thread Starter 
"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt Unfortunatly my visit to the local town board indicates a clear and present danger of the gas drilling industries potential to dominate our region. Federal state and local representives are following the money.
post #66 of 116

subbing....i'm fighting coal currently (tooth and nail for my community), but I want to support and stick together....hope that's ok. smile.gif

post #67 of 116
Thread Starter 

So glad to meet you, we are fighting for the same cause. In fact I think part of the problem (environmental activism) is that this one objective is fragmented into a thousand parts. Let us come together. Pollution for profit has controlling interests all over the planet. How can we help eachother?

post #68 of 116
Thread Starter 

Speaking of the same cause, our pro indusrty government just arrested several good people for no good reason.



Many blessings to these brave activists. Our childrens resources are under seige, and the western world is asleep.

Teach peace, demand accountability.



post #69 of 116
Thread Starter 

Morning I thought this news worthy.


Of course I am not surprised that the pie in the sky gas production estimates are fictional. It's good to hear the feds are willing to adjust their outlook, and it's quite distressing that the NYDEC hasn't. 

Also this week this very interesting piece caught my eye http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11242/1170836-503.stm  seems that official assesments (PA state and local) refuse to support the gas industries claims of the tremendous  local economic benefits of shale gas. As it turns out the proper data for actually tracking this money is not even in place.


Still, our elected officials are drawing up policy based on gas mythology.

Edited by tri31 - 9/6/11 at 6:52am
post #70 of 116
Thread Starter 

Top 10 Fracking Flaws (revised DSGEIS)

1. New York State isn’t proposing to ban any chemicals, even those known to be

toxic and carcinogenic. While the proposed public disclosure component has been

strengthened, telling New Yorkers what toxic chemicals will be used is not the

same as protecting the public from negative health impacts.

2. The preliminary draft allows drilling waste to escape treatment as hazardous

waste, even if it is in fact hazardous under the law. This means fracking waste

could be sent to treatment facilities unable to properly treat it, putting the health

and safety of our waters and communities at grave risk.

3. The state proposes allowing sewage plants to treat drilling wastes, even

though such plants are not permitted to handle the toxic elements in such wastes,

and even though the DEC itself has called into question New York’s capacity and

ability to treat fracking wastes.

4. Drinking water supplies would be inadequately protected. The preliminary

draft increases buffers and setbacks from aquifers and wells. However the

protections are inconsistent and can be waived in some instances. All setbacks

and buffers must be set to provide maximum protections that cannot be altered.

5. Some fracking restrictions would have sunset dates. The preliminary draft

proposes to place some areas of the state off limits to gas drilling, but upon closer

examination, many of the restrictions have sunset dates and some of the protective

buffers only call for site-specific individual environmental review, rather than

clear restrictions.

6. The preliminary draft does not analyze public health impacts, despite the fact

that fracking-related air pollution and the potential for water contamination have

serious effects on people—especially the elderly and children, and communities

downwind and downstream of proposed fracking operations. There is growing

evidence of negative health impacts related to gas extraction in other states.

7. The DEC proposes issuing permits before formal rulemaking is complete, a

backward move that leaves New York’s waters and communities at risk.

8. The state is breaking up environmental impact reviews. The thousands of

miles of pipelines or compressor stations required for drilling to get the resulting

gas to market will be reviewed by a different agency under a different process.

Without an accounting of such impacts, New York’s environmental assessment is

incomplete and the full impacts of fracking are unknown. The Public Service

Commission has jurisdiction over gas infrastructure. As such, Governor Cuomo

should direct state agencies to coordinate their efforts in order to protect our air,

water and communities.

9. While proposing to put the New York City and Syracuse watersheds offlimits

to drilling, critical water supply infrastructure would not be protected.

The state proposes a buffer around New York City drinking water infrastructure

in which only an additional review would be required and upon which projects

could be permitted—not a formal ban. The proposed buffer is only one-quarter as

long as a typical horizontal wellbore, too close to the sensitive, aging

infrastructure that provides the city with drinking water. There are no proposed

buffer requirements for Syracuse.

10. New York’s environmental agency has been subject to steep budget and staff

cuts and does not have adequate staff or resources to properly oversee

fracking, even if every possible protection were in place. This reality raises the

possibility that the DEC will be forced to cut corners with its reviews or fast-track

permits despite the risks. Natural Resources Defense Council and Environmental

Advocates of New York are members of an advisory panel expected to weigh in

on agency resources and staffing in the months to come.


read more at www.CleanWaterNotDirtyDrilling.org NY has a mere 60 days to comment to the DEC and advocate for more responsible mandate. Let your voice be heard!


post #71 of 116

This issue seems to be heating up again in the media...

post #72 of 116
Thread Starter 

Please share Sandra's videos



Edited by tri31 - 9/15/11 at 6:41am
post #73 of 116
Thread Starter 

All told, the oil and gas industry spent $174.7 million and registered 788 lobbyists to influence lawmakers and regulators last year, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan research organization. Since 1998, the industry has spent $966.8 million on lobbying, making it the sixth-biggest-spending interest group in Washington, the center found. Furthermore, in a well-researched article today, the Center for American Progress' Brad Johnson revealed that the members who hosted this morning's hearing were the recipients of a lump sum of over $11 million in campaign contributions from the gas and oil industry. Johnson closed his article by pointing out the core flawed premise of this phony scandal. 


“The solar industry is truly dependent on subsidies,” subcommittee chairman Cliff Stearns (R-FL) said at the conclusion of the hearing. Stearns did not express similar outrage about the hundreds of billions of dollars that have gone into subsidizing the oil, gas, coal and nuclear industries. None of the Republican members of the panel worried about the $11 million in subsidies they have received from the fossil fuel and nuclear industries in campaign contributions.

Rather than examine the dirty energy subsidy implications of this story, opportunistic politicians and media have focused on the *tiny by comparison* $535 million loan guarantee to Solyndra initiated by former President George W. Bush and approved by current President Barack Obama. The bulk of the media have instead flocked to the "alternative energy must not be viable" narrative.  


Solyndra Loan was Pennies By Comparison -- Were they Set Up to Fail?

It is no wonder then, that handed a loan that was pennies by comparison to what the fossil fuel industry receives in subsidies and tax breaks on an annual basis from the government, Solyndra was bound to fail. The Chinese government, for one, recently handed $20 billion to solar panel corporations.  Given no tax cuts, no extra subsidies after the initial loans, and handed an astronomical handicap in an energy industry dominated by oil and coal, journalists have yet to ask government officials the crucial question:

With members of both parties finger-pointing and laying the blame on Solyndra, was Solydra, all along, set up to fail by the federal government? Is that what's really going on here?


Dave Roberts of Grist may have hit the nail on the head: 

For a mix of financial and ideological reasons, U.S. conservative movement activists, operators, and politicos hate clean energy. They don't believe in climate change, they love fossil fuels and fossil-fuel campaign donations, and they think, or want the U.S. public to think, that clean energy is weak, unreliable, marginal, and dependent on government subsidies. They have been trying to make that case for a long while. What Solyndra gives them is a symbol, something to use as a stand-in to discredit not just the DOE loan program, but all government support for clean energy and indeed clean energy itself. 

One can only hope the terms of the debate change, and quickly!



post #74 of 116
Thread Starter 











post #75 of 116
Thread Starter 

Many regulations geared towards protecting

the population from the impacts of toxic

substances are based on results from adult

studies, which fail to account for the

different toxicokinetics in the young.

What a tough day it has been already.  Here is some information about childrens environmental heath, endocrine disruption.  .http://www.psr.org/ &


This is a site that  tracks commonly used chemicals and human health impacts. http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/index.html

Three of my seven pregnancies have ended in early losses, so this is a subject I generally avoid. My guess is most moms and dads do, it is outrageous that every mother (I know) understands  the dangers of beer and cigs and crib bumpers but are unaware that our kids are not being protected from industrial chemicals. The air and water in your womb make up the most fragile of environments.  It is time to start talking to about this.  

Edited by tri31 - 9/23/11 at 7:01am
post #76 of 116
Thread Starter 

Sandra Steingraber  9/27/11







Edited by tri31 - 10/2/11 at 3:48pm
post #77 of 116
Thread Starter 


The Delaware River Basin, a vital part of the interconnected watershed system that provides water to 15 million people in Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and New York, including half of New York City, is facing the most serious threat in its history. There is currently a moratorium on hydraulic fracturing (fracking) in the region, but that could drastically change on October 21st when the Delaware River Basin Commission (DRBC) will meet to vote on whether to end the moratorium.

Fracking in the Basin would be a devastating blow to the eco-system of the Delaware River Basin and the surrounding areas and an assault on the safety of our drinking water. The damage that could be caused by fracking would impact the landscape for years to come. Despite industry claims that it is “safe,” a long list of violations, accidents, spills, and incidents of contaminated water are evidence to the contrary.

It is critical that we all act together and act now to let our elected officials and the oil and gas industry know that we will not stand for the destruction of one our most precious resources—clean and safe drinking water. Stand with Delaware Riverkeeper, Riverkeeper, and other environmental organizations in a united front against unregulated and unchecked fracking at a protest rally on October 21st at the Patriot’s Theater, War Memorial in Trenton, New Jersey.

Call President Obama and the governors of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware can influence whether to allow fracking in the Delaware River Basin. On October 21, the Delaware River Basin Commission — comprised of representatives appointed by each governor and President Obama — will convene for a vote on proposed regulations. We will hold each elected official accountable for how their representative votes. 
Will you join me in asking our governor and the president to protect our drinking water from risky natural gas drilling?
Please call your Governor and President Obama 
and urge them to vote no on fracking the Delaware: 
President Obama: 866-586-4069
NJ - Governor Christie: 877-559-7809
NY - Governor Cuomo: 866-961-3208
PA - Governor Corbett: 866-582-4813
DE - Governor Markell: 877-247-182


post #78 of 116
Thread Starter 



The natural gas industry has exemptions or exclusions from key parts of at least 7 of the 15 major federal environmental laws designed to protect air and water from radioactive and hazardous chemicals.

Below are the seven laws listed in the order they were passed.

National Environmental Policy Act

1969 Requires that government agencies evaluate environmental impacts of major federal actions like authorizing oil and gas drilling on public land.

2005 Congress exempts drillers from having to produce certain types of rigorous reports on the potential environmental impact of some types of oil and gas activities.

2006-7 The Bureau of Land Management grants the exemption to a quarter of all wells approved on public land in the West.

Clean Air Act

1970 Limits emissions of toxic air pollutants.

1990 Congress amends the act, strengthening limits on emissions of more than 180 hazardous air pollutants, but exempts all oil and gas wells from certain protections under this rule.

Clean Water Act

1972 Limits discharges into rivers, lakes and streams. Establishes goals of water that is “fishable and swimmable” by 1983 and zero discharge of pollutants by 1985.

1987 Congress amends the act, requiring the E.P.A. to develop a permitting program for stormwater runoff, but these amendments largely exempt oil and gas exploration, production and processing.

2005 Congress expands the industry’s exemptions to the act.

Safe Drinking Water Act

1974 Protects the quality of drinking water and regulates the injection of waste into underground areas.

1995 Carol Browner, head of the E.P.A., writes that hydraulic fracturing is not regulated by the part of the law that pertains to the “underground injection” of waste.

1997 A federal court rules that hydraulic fracturing constitutes “underground injection” and falls under the regulation.

2004 An E.P.A. study focused on coalbed methane concludes that the injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids into underground wells does not present a threat to drinking water. An E.P.A. whistleblower later charges that the study’s conclusions were unsupported and that some members of the study’s peer review panel had conflicts of interest.

2005 Congress exempts hydraulic fracturing from regulation under the act unless diesel is used.

Resource Conservation and Recovery Act

1976 Sets standards for the handling of hazardous wastes.

1980 Lawmakers tell the E.P.A. to study oil and gas exemptions and report back to Congress.

1988 Over objections from agency officials, the E.P.A decides not to apply some hazardous waste rules to specific oil and gas wastes.

Superfund Act

1980 Establishes a governmental response to releases of hazardous substances into the environment and holds polluting industries liable for cleanup costs. But natural gas and oil are not considered hazardous under this law, making it more difficult for the E.P.A. to hold some oil and gas operations liable.

Emergency Planning and Community Right to Know Act

1986 Requires certain industries to report to the E.P.A. on the storage, release or transfer of significant levels of toxic substances. But much of the oil and gas industry has not been required by the E.P.A. to follow the law’s reporting requirements.


Please go to http://nyrad.org/ and get involved in our struggle to protect the commons for our children and their future!

post #79 of 116


New York State will hold four public hearings on its proposed rule making concerning high volume hydraulic fracturing. Upstate hearings will be held on Nov. 16, 2011 at Dansville Middle School Auditorium, 31 Clara Barton St., Dansville, NY; Nov. 17, 2011 at The Forum Theatre, 236 Washington St., Binghamton, NY; and Nov. 29, 2011 at Sullivan County Community College, Seelig Theatre 112 College Rd., Loch Sheldrake, NY. The New York City hearing will be on Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2011 at Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers St., New York, NY. The hearings will be held at 1 and 6 p.m. at each of these venues. Also submit your comments.

How to comment



Tuesday, October 11th 2011 

New York City's chief water protector is raising a critical question about plans for intensive natural-gas drilling upstate: Could tremors from the process known as hydrofracking damage the city's underground aqueducts, disrupting their all-important billion-gallon-a-day flow? Read the story.   

post #80 of 116

November 21 is DON'T FRACK THE DELAWARE Day. If you can't join us in Trenton, please, visit Delaware Riverkeeper's website for actions you can take from home! We need all the letters and calls we can get from residents in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware!



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