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post #81 of 116
Thread Starter 

Industry representatives say DEC hydrofracking rules may keep drillers out

We can stop this, but we need your help! As of Monday, only 1,096 comments have been submitted, according to DeSantis. Deadline is December 12 2011. Four public hearings will be held in November, including Nov. 16 in Dansville, Livingston County, and Nov. 17 in Binghamton. DEC said the agency "NY will not cut corners in New York when it comes to protecting public health and environment."

Chip Northrup posted a guide to submitting a comment here. http://www.youtube.com/user/northrup49#p/a/u/0/deNiK_nl1jQ

Or if you want to do it by mail the address is

Bureau of Oil and Gas Regulation

NYSDEC division of Mineral Resources

625 Broadway, Third Floor

Albany, NY

Many are still on the fence about this; yesterday an article in the NY times concerning property values was released. Bankers and real estate executives, especially in New York, are starting to pay closer attention to the fine print and are raising provocative questions, such as: What happens if they lend money for a piece of land that ends up storing the equivalent of an Olympic-size swimming pool filled with toxic wastewater from drilling? Fearful of just such a possibility, some banks have become reluctant to grant mortgages on properties leased for gas drilling. At least eight local or national banks do not typically issue mortgages on such properties. Some real estate agents have started raising red flags. “When you decide to sell your house you may find it difficult to do so because many banks, here and elsewhere, will not mortgage properties with gas leases, which, in turn, limits the number of buyers willing and able to buy your property,” It’s not just well pads, gas wells require pipe lines, meter stations, which will mean compressor stations, gas holding facilities…any number of which may go through your neighborhood.



post #82 of 116
Thread Starter 


For years people here in New York have been saying we can't fight fracking, that it is a done deal. This is a lie!

Look at the most recent poll



"But polls, some more scientific than others, in many of the areas most likely to see gas drilling tend to show overwhelming opposition of two-thirds or more, particularly to horizontal hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, a controversial process that injects chemicals and massive amounts of water into shale to free natural gas."


Please understand, there is a reason for the "rush" to drill. Look at my previous post regarding gas industry exemptions. Everyday the technology used to drill the Marcellus evolves. That’s right there are already methods being tested that don’t use millions of gallons of fresh water per well. Better technology that will keep toxins out of the air. Air pollution is one of the biggest most understudied health hazards. New technology is expensive. The gas industry wants to drill the Marcellus on the cheap, the laws favor industry. They will not be held accountable when the cost of production comes storming in! In 10 years they'll have fleased the land owners, and left the tax payers to deal with the damages. There are so many reasons to wait! The state has not done long term health studies! There is no mechanism for funding the agencies who will be struggling with additional costs brought by gas production! No way to fund disposal of waste! Our local board is basing ALL of it's gas policy on the assumption that the gas companies will come to the tax payers rescue when ever we call. The gas industry employs the best lawyers in the world! A fool lives by their assumptions!

SEND a message to your senator tell them to suspend drilling


demand the SGEIS be revised



Please give a little of your time and show up at the hearings! We are blessed to live in a democracy! This is our opportunity to show the world NY cares about our quality of life! Citizens have rights and responsibilities.


DEC will hold four public hearings on the revised draft SGEIS, draft regulations and proposed SPDES GP. Each public hearing will have an afternoon and an evening session from 1:00 pm to 4:00 pm and 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm, respectively.

Comments will be accepted in written and oral format at the hearings. The hearings will be held:

 Nov. 16: Dansville Middle School Auditorium, 31 Clara Barton St., Dansville, NY 14437

 Nov. 17: The Forum Theatre, 236 Washington Street, Binghamton, NY, 13901

 Nov. 29: Sullivan County Community College, Seelig Theatre, 112 College Rd, Loch Sheldrake, NY 12759

 Nov. 30: Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers Street, New York, NY, 10007

Edited by tri31 - 11/3/11 at 8:39am
post #83 of 116
Thread Starter 

A federal advisory panel is warning that "serious environmental consequences" could result from the gas drilling technique known as hydraulic fracturing if steps aren't taken to reduce its impacts.

The seven-member committee said in a report released Thursday that progress by the federal government and the oil and gas industry on 20 recommendations it issued in August has been less than it hoped. It said if actions were not taken to avoid "excessive environmental impacts," a public outcry could delay or stop the gas drilling boom.

Energy Secretary Steven Chu asked the panel in May for advice on ways to improve hydraulic fracturing's safety and environmental soundness.

It recommended reducing air pollution and eliminating diesel fuel and disclosing all other chemicals pumped underground to fracture rock and access natural gas.


Oh and it also turns out that both the U.S Army and the U.S. Geological Survey armed with over fifty years of research have confirmed on a federal level that that “fluid injection” introduces subterranean instability and is a contributory factor in inducing increased seismic activity.


post #84 of 116

I posted in the local tribe area and no one responded about the Nov 21 rally in Trenton- shocking so little care about their water--HELLO NYC where do you think your drink water comes from?

post #85 of 116
Thread Starter 

Hi mama, glad to hear your voice. Thanks for speaking up! I just read this, it's from the Times last week, did ya see it? 



post #86 of 116

YES, I did see it



I am SHOCKED not to see anything in the tribe section when so many IRL in my area are going and we are FARRRRRRRRRRR from "crunchy" here - just super aware of the river (Delaware) but HELLO, like I said--this effects soooooooooooo many people!!! not just in PA


I do not know (not sure if this can even be "said" here- with the recent Penn State "thing") the sad thing is their deep connection and the total lack of knowledge by most! AND really the two are so closely related! MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!!!!

FRACK for SPORT!! yea!!!! http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10260/1088268-100.stm


as a PA resident, the outcry over the damage of the lives (with the current thing) - is super tragic, throw in non-usable h2o and that is thousands and thousands of lives totally destroyed - once your water catches on fire you really won't want to play football

post #87 of 116

very sad to see that the local tribe area didn't respond at all -


as holistic type mothers I find this shocking!


my area contributed to the fracking rally in Trenton and the pressure prior to the rally certainly had a major impactjoy.gif http://newjersey.sierraclub.org/PressReleases/0231.asp

post #88 of 116
Thread Starter 

Gas development has been a real wake up call. We were so frustrated to find that the motive to profit was so dominant in peoples decision making. It is really important that people are exposed to the real economics involved here. The media needs to stop making the issue jobs vs environment. Right vs left. It is the media, that has failed to inform the average person that a fraction of the population will profit from gas. They refuse to expose the massive costs that citizens will be forced to pay. Superfund site, what's that? Looking into exclusions,exemptions and state laws, it is clear that legally the gas industry is untouchable. I've heard lots of assumptions about what the gas industry may do. I don't see stories about how the state will pay for it's subsidies to the gas companies or increased funding to departments (like the DOT) that will be effected by massive industrial activities. You'd think someone would be carefully monitoring the produce/dairy products that are coming from formally rural, now industrialized areas. But, that would damage the economy. Just because they aren't taking potentially toxic products seriously doesn't mean people don't boycott them.The result is still economic harm.  When people get sick from the toxic air pollution, they pay with there health. Again, the masses take on the financial burden. Tourism? When is your family planning to visit the oil production regions of Louisiana? People believe ignorance can be a sanctuary. In my county, those people are in local government.

post #89 of 116
Thread Starter 

Okay it's easy to be negative. I apologize to those politicians in our area that are clearly well informed on working for the publics well being. In case you are interested this is the binghamton DEC hearing


post #90 of 116
Thread Starter 

New Food & Water Watch Analysis Reveals the New York SGEIS is exaggerating the Job Creation Potential of Shale Gas Development

Washington, D.C.—As officials in New York determine whether to allow the controversial practice of hydraulic fracturing, the consumer advocacy group Food & Water Watch today released new analysis that finds that the Cuomo administration is exaggerating the potential of shale gas development to generate jobs for New Yorkers. How New York State Exaggerated Potential Job Creation from Shale Gas Development finds that New York residents should expect a mere fraction of the jobs promised by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation.

Food & Water Watch examined the department’s socioeconomic impact analysis and found that within its “average scenario”, New York residents can only expect 195 new jobs associated with shale gas development.  This would increase to over 600 new jobs for current New Yorkers by the tenth year of shale gas development, but after this tenth year, there would be virtually no new jobs.  With over 755,000 New Yorkers unemployed as of August of 2011 according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 195 new oil and gas industry jobs would create new employment opportunity for only one-fortieth of 1 percent of those who are out of work.

“The number of actual jobs that would be created from shale gas development in New York is a very small fraction of what state residents have been led to believe from all of the industry’s hype,” said Food & Water Watch Executive Director Wenonah Hauter. “Such minimal economic benefits do not justify the short and long-term public health and environmental costs that would accompany drilling and fracking for shale gas.”

According to Food & Water Watch, the Cuomo administration provides an inaccurate account of shale gas development’s job creation potential by:

  • Counting many jobs that would be filled by out-of-state workers, or by workers with shale gas industry experience who would relocate to New York permanently;
  • Mischaracterizing a rapid pace of shale gas drilling and fracking as an “average” development scenario, one that would lead to more than 20,000 wells drilled in just three counties of the state (Broome, Chemung and Tioga);
  • Failing to account for the negative impacts drilling and fracking would have on employment in other industries, such as tourism and agriculture;
  • Assuming that shale gas wells will produce for 30 years when they may only produce for much shorter timespans;
  • Misusing economic multipliers to estimate the economic spillover effect of gas industry jobs;
  • Failing to provide methodological details necessary to validate the basis of these claims.




post #91 of 116
Thread Starter 

A Chesapeake Bay Foundation infrared video investigation of natural gas drilling and processing sites in Pennsylvania, Maryland, and West Virginia found invisible air pollution rising from almost three quarters of them. Here is a link to the video




Pennsylvania law exempts gas drilling and well site activities from the need for state air pollution control permits, and therefore state regulation.  That exemption was approved more than five years ago, before the Marcellus shale drilling boom started.  Now that drilling has dramatically increased, it is time for the state to re-examine that exemption.




post #92 of 116
Thread Starter 

Findings in the recent EPA report directly contradict longstanding arguments by the drilling industry for why the fracking process is safe: that hydrologic pressure would naturally force fluids down, not up; that deep geologic layers provide a watertight barrier preventing the movement of chemicals towards the surface; and that the problems with the cement and steel barriers around gas wells aren’t connected to fracking.


It seems that the gas industry just can't keep the facts from seeping into the fracking debate.

post #93 of 116
Thread Starter 
Ohio State Study Finds No Jobs Boom:  "It matters whether there are 1,000 jobs distributed as 1,000 for one year and then none, versus 100 additional jobs for 10 consecutive years, or 10 additional jobs for the next 100 years. Yet, impact analysis such as that used by the energy industry typically does not differentiate among these scenarios and the whole topic is usually ignored by the media"  
Let there be light, we can finally start to change the national conversation. Please share.
post #94 of 116
Thread Starter 

Ms Deborah Rogers, a financial analyst turned entrepreneur, discusses the myths and realities of shale gas profitability with host Bill Podulka. Is shale gas drilling a financial bubble? Why has it swelled so much? How much longer can this go on, who gets hurt and who profits from the party?





Emily Wurth Food and Water Watch observed, the energy portion of President Obama's speech sounded like it could have been written by the oil and gas industry. Quote: "He cited the industry's deceptive claims and grossly inflated the jobs numbers, rather than actual labor statistics. President Obama needs to hear the truth about shale gas. Agreeing with the President that gas companies should disclose the chemicals they use in fracking, simply telling us which chemicals gas companies use will not prevent contamination from happening in nearby communities. It falls far short of removing the oil and gas industry's exemption from key environmental regulations like the Safe Drinking Water Act, which the President should agree would be "regulations to prevent irresponsible behavior" by the oil and gas industry."


President Obama believes we can "develop this resource without putting the health and safety of our citizens at risk," but the research increasingly shows that it is not possible




post #95 of 116
Thread Starter 




Governor Cuomo says a decision to allow Marcellus Shale horizontal hydrofracking might be made in as little as 8 short weeks!!!


The National Resources Defense Council (NRDC), which has two seats on the Governor’s Gas Advisory Panel has suggested  2 disturbing alternative actions:


1) – A “Demonstration Project in which up to 300 wells could be drilled in 3 years


2) – A “Special Places Off Limits to Drilling”  that would protect NYC, Syracuse, Catskills, Fingerlakes, Delaware River Water Gap and Cooperstown Corridor BUT NOT PROTECT THE SOUTHERN TIER.


1. Tell them you want them to join with the grassroots and

publicly declare opposition to ANY Demonstration project, anywhere in NYS,

in an open letter to Governor Cuomo.


2. Request that they sign the Defacto Moratorium Pledge.  Accept  No Excuses: Tell them that if they are truly interested in protecting us there is no reason for them to NOT sign the pledge!!!




The de facto moratorium pledge:


Given the irreparable harm that shale gas extraction could wreak on New York's environment and public health, I request that Governor Cuomo maintain DEC's de facto moratorium on Marcellus Shale horizontal hydrofracturing until there is a consensus among all local, state and federal authorities as well as potentially impacted parties that the 17 major shortcomings documented in the Withdraw the Revised Draft SGEIS Coalition Letter have been fully resolved.


The full coalition letter with over 22,000 signatures can be found at:




Please Call and Email all contacts below.  

(Send a copy of your email to NYRAD as well at info@nyrad.org)


Tell them you want them to sign THE PLEDGE to protect all New York State citizens from the dangers of High Volume Horizontal Hydrofracking.  Be polite but firm:


1.  Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Esq, NRDC

Phone: 914-422-4343 - ask for his Secretary, Mary Beth

Email:  webform: http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/contact.html


2. Kate Sinding, Esq, NRDC

Phone: 212-727-2700

Email: ksinding@nrdc.org


3. Eric A. Goldstein, Esq, NRDC

Phone: 212-727-2700

Email: egoldstein@nrdc.org


Additionally, Please Contact New York State Congressional Members from the Southern Tier who are on the Gas Advisory Panel and request that they sign THE PLEDGE:


1. Assemblywoman Donna Lupardo, NYS Assembly Rep.

Phone: 607-723-9047 (Binghamton)  518-455-5431 (Albany)

Email: lupardod@assembly.state.ny.us



2. Senator Thomas W. Libous, NYS Senator, 52nd District

Phone: 607-773-8771

Email: senator@senatorlibous.com







Please direct questions or comments to:

www.nyrad.org email: info@nyrad.org


post #96 of 116
Thread Starter 

Catskill Mountain Keeper is alerting NY residents to call NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY SPEAKER SHELDON SILVER TODAY.   HERE IS WHY.

Negative impacts on human health have accompanied gas drilling using hydrofracking wherever it has been done.  Despite that, the permit conditions proposed by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to “govern” fracking makes little mention of the health impacts of fracking. 

That is why Catskill Mountainkeeper and our coalition partners are demanding that  the legislature require that an independent comprehensive Health Impact Assessment (HIA) be done prior to any further discussions of shale gas.

In October 2011, 250 physicians and medical professionals wrote a letter to Governor Cuomo calling for a comprehensive public health impact assessment.   This was sent because the concerns outlined in a previous letter sent to The department of health and the Governor were clearly ignored in the draft Supplemental generic environmental Impact statement (SGEIS) .

A health impact assessment, which is defined by the National Research Council of the National Academy of Sciences, "INCLUDES MANY TOOLS THAT HELP ENSURE THE VALIDITY OF THE FINDINGS AND HAVE MULTIPLE PLACES FOR PUBLIC INPUT TO THE DOCUMENT."

This will tell New Yorkers what the “true” costs of gas drilling are. 

Certainly the risk to the human and animal health in New York State justifies that such a health Impact assessment be done.

On Tuesday our allies in the Assembly worked to have this attached to the budget as a resolution.

Now the industry is pushing hard to have it removed.

The Cuomo administration keeps calling for science not emotion.  This is the science.  Call Assemblyman Sheldon Silver today!

Thank him and ask him to continue the fight to keep a Health Impact Assessment in the Budget.  It is very important that he hears from you now.

New York State Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver Contact Information:

District Office
250 Broadway
Suite 2307
New York, NY 10007

Albany Office
LOB 932
Albany, NY 12248

post #97 of 116
Thread Starter 

Please read. Please read. Please..

Many people in the Pennsylvania/ New York really do believe that responsible drilling is being, or can be, done in their region. In both states the legislation being enacted is weakening the existing infrastucture that could have (or will be neccessary) to hold these industries accountable.  I live in New York and I can tell you that our small town board will not even pass a road preservation ordinance, and by their refusal to act are failing to provide basic safe guards to our community. Once the state begins granting permits many opportunities will have been lost.  The sales pitch says that big gas will pay for and improve everything they touch. People all over the world have been harmed by these industries. “Americans aren’t used to being treated like they are the indigenous people being colonized. But that’s what’s happening.” We must protect our childrens resources! Please keep faith that as more and more people join this conversation they will inform themselves and act together to protect our communities shared resources. Godspeed.


Alternet recently posted an artical about PA's Act13




Pennsylvania's Republican leaders have given the natural gas industry unprecedented power to overrule local government and drill anywhere. Act 13 does many things to elevate the rights of gas companies above the civil rights of people and communities. To start, it revokes local zoning authority to discourage oil and gas development, stating, “this section pre-empts and supersedes the local regulation of oil and gas operations” (page 162). Municipalities can adopt some rules on how drilling is to be done, but they cannot say no to drilling. Moreover, the law tells municipalities that they must revise their local ordinances to allow drilling if they want to receive payment under the new per-well impact fee. The law empowers the state’s Public Utilities Commission—a body of appointed, not elected officials—to overturn local zoning, and to determine if a community is eligible to share in impact fee revenues.

The law also gives the industry the power to seize private property for any part of a drilling operation. On page 65, it states, “a corporation empowered to transport, sell or store natural gas or manufactured gas in the Commonwealth may appropriate an interest in real property” for “injection, storage and removal” of hydrocarbons. However, it does not require the industry to notify any town government of leases it has acquired or of a future interest in using any property—for say, a pipeline or processing facility. Neither homeowners nor other businessmen seeking to develop property are protected if the gas industry intends to use their land. 


The law also prevents health professionals from discussing medical impacts. On page 99, it requires oil and gas companies to tell medical professionals what chemicals are used in drilling fluids—but only after they sign “a statement of need and a confidentiality agreement.” However those details—the chemicals in drilling fluid and medical significance—it states a page later, are secret and “shall not be a public record.”  “I know exactly why that is in there,” said Shields. “That makes it extremely difficult to bring a civil suit if the information is locked away behind confidentiality agreements. A physician can’t release information during discovery. They can’t even tell another patient that they are dealing with the same thing. They can’t go to a public health official and disclose it—so if this lady has benzene in her blood, or methyl-whatever. He can’t do it.”  


Edited by tri31 - 3/12/12 at 7:06am
post #98 of 116
Thread Starter 

Come join the facebook virtual lobby day, and tell NY leaders to end special exemptions for natural gas companies. Close the loophole and force the gas industry to play by the same rules enforced upon all other industries in NY state.



post #99 of 116
Thread Starter 

Small doses can have big health effects.

That is a main finding of a report, three years in the making, published by a team of 12 scientists who study hormone-altering chemicals.

Dozens of substances that can mimic or block estrogen, testosterone and other hormones are found in the environment, the food supply and consumer products, including plastics, pesticides and cosmetics. One of the biggest, longest-lasting controversies about these chemicals is whether the tiny doses that most people are exposed to are harmful.



post #100 of 116
Thread Starter 

The first challenges to Pennsylvania act 13 are being filed. We have only to read the minor newpaper blurbs to see where this is heading. For the people, by the people. Hello people? You can bet big gas doesn't think this is last page news.

HARRISBURG, Pa. — A state judge will hear a request for an immediate injunction against Pennsylvania’s new Marcellus Shale law filed by a group including seven municipalities that says it unconstitutionally takes away local powers to control land use.

The Commonwealth Court hearing was scheduled for Wednesday in Harrisburg. The approximately 120-page lawsuit was filed March 29.

Opponents of the sweeping, six-week-old law say it prevents municipalities from protecting homes or businesses, and possibly even schools or parks, from drilling activity that could damage a community’s quality of life and property values. Land-use provisions are scheduled to take effect in a few days.

Gov. Tom Corbett’s office says the administration is confident that courts will uphold the law, and members of the natural gas industry say overturning it would hurt them.


PITTSBURGH (AP) -- A coalition of oil and gas industry companies is challenging a group of municipalities who are suing the state of Pennsylvania over a new law that aims to regulate gas drilling.

The Pennsylvania Oil and Gas Association, the Marcellus Shale Coalition and several companies filed a legal petition Thursday morning, seeking to intervene in the lawsuit filed by municipalities last week.

The municipalities want an injunction stopping the law from taking effect and, ultimately, for it to be struck down.

The new petition from the oil and gas industry groups says that overturning the new state law, known as Act 13, would negatively impact the industry.

Gov. Tom Corbett, a Republican, supports the industry's objectives in Act 13, which is scheduled to take effect in mid-April.


For those who are still not aware the law prohibits medical professionals from discussing health impacts, but that's not all! Please read this informative link courtesy of the Pennsylvania Medical Society





Edited by tri31 - 4/11/12 at 9:05am
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