Birth experience and baby temperament - Page 2

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by lach

I think that birth is SUPPOSED to be pretty traumatic for babies, so I'm not sure I buy into that. Babies are made to bend in strange ways so that they can fit through the birth canal. I can't imagine that it's particularly pleasant to have your skull be in multiple pieces so it can squish together and make it out of Mom. And don't forget that going through the birth canal is supposed to be a REALLY tight fit, and one of the frequent complications with C sections is that the baby doesn't get all the fluid squeezed out of her. I mean, when you're saying that it's a GOOD thing that the baby is squeezed so tightly that her lungs are completely compressed and anything in them has to come out, you're definitely not talking "fun times." Then there are mom hormones and baby hormones designed to race through them, and that can't be entirely pleasant.

If any of us, as adults, recreated a birth experience we'd most likely end up dead!

I think that births can range from easy to traumatic for Mom... but I kind of have the feeling that as far as the baby is concerned, birth ranges from traumatic to very traumatic. Luckily, they have very, very short memories!

So true!

I don't buy into this theory at all.

[Smokering]

Funny how that coincided with colonialism-- which I'm sure had nothing to do with maldistribution of resources, increased stress, etc.

Er... yes? What's your point? I don't imagine colonialism interfered with the availability of traditional foods for a while - most traditional foods weren't valued by white men, which is why they introduced their own. So I doubt the colonists were scooping up all the fermented roots and shellfish and sour porridges. It was probably more of an availability/novelty/"charity" thing. White sugar is convenient and addictive: you introduce it, trade with it, people will eat it.

I suppose stress due to colonialism could certainly have had an effect on labours, but I dunno... do you have any specific evidence on that? It seems a bit generalised. One of the societies WAP studied was an Inuit tribe, where Europeans were hardly crowding in. Western food was available, and medical care when necessary, but it wasn't exactly what I'd call colonialism - the Westerners were mostly researchers and scientists, not colonists. The women laboured at home and were often brought in to the medical station after days of labour, as opposed to their previous very quick births. It's hard to imagine that the women were having difficulty because they were stressed about their native customs being absorbed by Western culture while they were in the middle of labour.

[babyjelly]

My babies' birth seemed to be influenced by their temperaments- as percieved by their movements and sleep/wakefulness patterns in the womb- rather than their temperaments being affected by birth...
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[Catubodua]

my personal opinion - since you can't go back and test this theory, it's not worth much to try to "prove" it. i.e. - we can't go back in time and also have my son's birth go smoothly and easily for him, so how can we prove that the only difference in how his personality might develop is related to how he was born? you can't watch the same baby in two different worlds/lives to see how each develops when every single thing in their lives are the same except for their birth experience.

now, having said all that - my son had a difficult labor, stressful induction, emergency c-section birth and he's the happiest, calmest, easiest baby. our only issue with him (and it's our issue, not his) is he likes to be awake and participating in everything which means he's not a good sleeper. he's perfectly happy being awake and wanting to play at 3am. we're not so thrilled about it!

[wombatclay]

baby one- long back labor, 32+ hours, eventual c/s. She was "high needs" but generally happy, slept well, loved interacting with others, all that.

baby two- twelve hour "textbook" labor that ended in a VBAC but there was shoulder dystocia, a 4th degree tear, and scary low apgars. She was beyond high needs, eventually diagnosed with sensory processing disorder and anxiety issues. The medical opinion was that oxygen deprivation at birth may have played a role, but that it wouldn't have been the "main" cause of her emotional/psychological/interactive needs.

baby three- insane, fast, screaming labor roughly 4.5 hours from first contraction to baby. And I was starting from a long/hard/closed cervix at that! Anotther VBAC, no dystocia or oxygen dep. But despite the fast and furious pace of labor he is a laid back, mellow, meatball of a kid.

So at least for me... birth experience doesn't pan out all that much. But there is a book/website (Cesarean Voices) that your mom may be interested in. It sort of examines the impact cesareans have on the developing psycology of an individual, and the impact that different types of cesareans (labor vs non-labor) have. Just google "cesarean voices" and you'll find the site!

[JamieCatheryn]

I doubt it shapes them very much, but what things are like the first hours or weeks probably have an effect for at least several months.

For example, with my first the first day was in the hospital, me grouchy and uncomfortable, being interrupted and scolded all the time by nurses. We were sent to the lab daily for the first week after birth for tests (jaundice). Breastfeeding didn't get a good start and was a struggle, DS1 never has gone to sleep well. And he's a hothead for sure. The labor was long but uncomplicated.

DS2 was a homebirth, another long but uncomplicated labor, very intense 2nd stage. His first hour was spent nursing, cord not yet cut, newborn exam put off then done gently. Then we slept in my own bed, comfy and cozy, practically stayed there for a week. He's always been pretty laid back and joyful, and *loves* to nurse and to eat.

[Pirogi]

I agree with Ms. Black. Birth isn't inherently traumatic for babies. I do believe that in some cases the Westernized medical model of birth can be traumatic. But I would never blame a mother for a choice or acquiescence that led to medicalized obstetric care.

Originally Posted by kcparker

I would bet money that just like it's been discovered that maternal antigens play a role in younger sons being more likely to be gay than older sons, there will be a discovery that the hormonal bath that #1 marinates in affects the hormonal bath that #2 marinates in.

Just wanted to comment on the article. The premise behind the theory is that maternal and fetal blood inevitably mix during birth, which creates an antibody response in the mother that may affect future sons. We know that this is not true, especially for physiological birth. Maternal and fetal blood does NOT inevitably mix. Sometimes, yes, but not always.

[Lady Lilya]

I've read that when we feel the pain of labor, endorphins are released to help us cope, and are also released into the baby's blood stream. So, the baby is getting a natural pain relief.

Contrast that with experiences after the birth, like rough and callous treatment that some babies get at hospitals. (Did you all see the video on youtube of a nurse bathing a newborn? She was holding him under running water in the sink while he was sputtering and panicking, and she was roughly rubbing him with a coarse-looking rag.) Or perhaps painful medical issues like a surgery shortly after birth, or reflux, etc.

[Litcrit]

My personal whacky belief is that a baby's inborn temperament has an effect on how it is born.

My husband forced his mom into a c-section (he was huge, breech, the water broke and then there were no contractions for hours). He can be passive, difficult to get going, reluctant to change his environment.

I saved my mom from a scheduled c-section by storming out of her before anyone had any time to think. I think of myself as showing initiative and being sometimes rash and stubborn.

[bcblondie]

What if the temperment of the baby is the reason for the long, difficult labour?

ETA. Lol. Just read the previous post. I agree litcrit.

[cocoanib]

I've been thinking about this alot.
I think that the way the Mama feels during labor and the way she and baby are treated during labor, birth and those first moments and days have alot to do with temperament. Not necessarily how long or difficult labor was.
I especially think that babies who are induced and treated roughly during labor and birth will have a hard time adjusting to life on the outside.
Just look at the way babies are typically greeted when they're born.
-Lot's of rough handling by strangers
-taken away from Mama
-Bright lights and strange noises
-Familiar scents immediately washed away
-Poked with needles
-Blinded by eye goop

I think all that plays apart into how a baby adjusts to it's new world.

[Lady Lilya]

DS had a really gentle entry into the world.

During pregnancy I was very relaxed and unstressed. During the labor I felt calm. It started in the early morning, and I went back to sleep. Spent much of the day chatting with my friends via IMer. They couldn't believe I wasn't panicking. Labor finally picked up at 6pm, minutes before my midwife and mother arrived. Never for a second did I feel any fear for my safety or the baby's, or any concern about having trouble birthing him. Everybody took good care of me. Nobody and nothing annoyed me during labor. Then I felt the urge to push and wanted the MW to check my cervix. I found the news that I was fully dilated to be very encouraging. I felt a bit frustrated during the 2 hours of pushing because I felt like he kept sliding back. But it was all gentle and calm and I knew I just needed to keep plodding along and that over time I would stretch and his head would get narrow. He was born into gentle lighting, a warm temp, no eye goop or vit K, no needles, no strangers handling him, no washing until the next day.

Though he was received into the world very gently, it was immediately clear he had an intense personality. He seemed agitated or furious about everything. Very insistent and demanding about his needs being met. (I would have met them either way. I've seen how quietly other babies protest and ask for things, and their parents take their gentle cries very seriously. But DS started with the loudest and most urgent cry you ever heard.) He wore everyone out very fast. All my helpers disappeared. And I spent the first year very stressed and alone and exhausted. And it really damaged my health.

He's much more relaxed now. And looking back at that first year, and how worked up he used to get over the slightest thing, I couldn't imagine that by 3 he would be so laid back and unfazed by everything.

[Drummer's Wife]

I have four kids, and ALL of them were easy babies. Calm, easy to soothe, didn't cry unless they were hungry or had a real reason to. It was never stressful to take care of them as infants (well, except when I had their older siblings to care for at the same time).

My first was born via c-section after 39 hours of labor.
My second was born via c-section after 0 hours of labor (scheduled section).
My third was born via c-section after 36 hours of labor.
My fourth was born via c-section after 0 hours of labor (scheduled section).

The only one I would say had a slightly higher needs temperment wise compared to his brothers and sister, was my 3rd. He had eczema that was really bad as a baby, and would cause him discomfort and lots of scratching. But he was still a 'good' baby - maybe just slightly more irritable than the others. I don't even think he cried any more than they did - which was very rarely.

[caedmyn]

I would say my most intense labor was my most intense baby, but I don't think his personality had anything to do with the labor. My first was a pretty easy 7.5 hr homebirth, 20 minutes of pushing. She was a mellow, easy baby. Second was a much more intense labor, 7.5 hours again, maybe 5 minutes of pushing...home waterbirth. I don't know why the labor would have been traumatic for the baby, but he's VERY intense and high-needs. My 3rd labor was 5 hours, home waterbirth, in between the other two for intensity. Pushing stage was a little different with this one because I tried to breathe baby out to avoid tearing (and he turned out to be breech so that changed the way the urge-to-push felt). He's only 5 days old but looks like he will be pretty mellow, definitely not super intense like my middle child.

[tireesix]

I have 3.

First baby, unnecessary induction over 3 days followed by 12 hour labour etc etc etc, she was an easy baby, quiet, fun etc BUT it was ME who had issues with her, each time I looked at her, I felt fear, I loved her, I still love her nearly 7 years on but our relationship suffered because of that birth.

Second baby, 12 hour labour, wasn't easy, wasn't particularly hard, very difficult baby, hours and hours and hours and hours of crying, the whole family up until 3 in the morning etc etc.

Third baby, easy 5 hour labour but another tricky baby.

After the first year, they all kinda chill out and are all excellent kids, friendly, sociable, kind, loving, everyone who meets them tells me how wonderful they are (kinda sounds like boasting but I am just saying)...... I don't know about my last 2 children, but the first birth affected me awfully and that ended up affecting my daughter because I wasn't responding to her properly.

[ILoveMyBabyBird]

Originally Posted by Lady Lilya

I've read that when we feel the pain of labor, endorphins are released to help us cope, and are also released into the baby's blood stream. So, the baby is getting a natural pain relief.

Contrast that with experiences after the birth, like rough and callous treatment that some babies get at hospitals. (Did you all see the video on youtube of a nurse bathing a newborn? She was holding him under running water in the sink while he was sputtering and panicking, and she was roughly rubbing him with a coarse-looking rag.) Or perhaps painful medical issues like a surgery shortly after birth, or reflux, etc.

Or foot pricks,vit k shots and vaccines. I have read that high stress during pregnancy equals high stress/high needs baby. Not so sure about the delivery though.

[Lady Lilya]

But I had a very high needs baby after a super low-stress pregnancy. At least until near the end, when I got some sciatica and worried that it would interfere with my ability to have a natural birth. (It was so bad the first day that I couldn't move, but it got better very fast and didn't interfere with the birth at all.) Can one day of stress about 5 days before the birth have enough impact to counteract 9 months of relaxed pregnancy?

This pregnancy I have had a lot more stress. DH reacted very badly to the news, even though it was a planned pregnancy. He has said a lot of things since then that have made me worry that we shouldn't have gotten pregnant again. I spent a lot of time crying about it. We'll see how the baby turns out, but I have a feeling he will be a lot more laid back than the first one.

[Kidzaplenty]

Well, I gotta say, my most high needs baby that is a constant strain on my sanity was my only baby that was hospital born, pit induced due to Pre-E/HELLPs. I have wondered if his birth experience did affect his temperment.

[GoBecGo]

Maybe conception has more of a relevance? Afterall the one cell is going to be affected more than the billions of a full-term baby, no?

[Marylizah]

Meh, I don't buy it.

DS1 -- beautiful, calm pregnancy, beautiful, peaceful natural birth, immediate latching on, never separated from me, blah blah blah was a very high-needs baby who finally slept through the night at age... four. He's still intense, needs lots of physical contact, and super sensitive.

DS2 -- much more stressful pregnancy (isolated in a new country, the death of a close family member & international travel to go to the funeral) plus a seriously traumatic birth experience (emergency Csec under GA, separated for a couple of hours after birth, etc). He's much more laid back and independent than his brother. Sleeps better (though not great) and is just the most laughing, cheerful guy imaginable.