Getting DD out of this funk

[physmom]

DD has been really off lately. She had a cold for over a week and we're at the tail end of it. Her activity levels are back to normal so I don't think it's that (although she still has a cough). Also she doesn't nap anymore except for rare occasions. We also decided to separate her crib from our bed (it was side-cared) but she's still in our room like 2 feet away from us, which initially meant she was not waking up as much at night.

Around 2 nights ago she went to bed too early (6pm) and didn't eat much before she fell asleep. Then she kept waking up OVER AND OVER again until I was to the point I just couldn't nurse her anymore because it hurt too much. DH finally got up with her and fed her and the whole process took about 2.5 hours to get her back to bed and she still woke up around 6am. Then the whole day yesterday she was much whinnier than normal and anything could set her off into a tantrum. We had planned to go to the Natural History Museum to see the dinosaurs but we were both so tired we ended up switching off naps and DD wasn't in any shape to leave the apt either because she kept throwing tantrums.

Well, last night it was more of the same she went to bed WAAAY too early at 5am and had refused to eat much of anything before she went to sleep (trust me we were trying really hard to feed her to avoid the same thing happening again). But, of course, it did and she woke up around 12:20 and was nursing non-stop until I finally told her I couldn't do it anymore and she flipped out. Eventually she asked for some water and we could get her back to sleep but we didn't want a pattern of her waking up in the middle of the night to eat so we kept her in the bedroom. Then she woke up at 5am. and nursed like crazy before she actually woke up so who knows how much sleep we actually got. Again DH and I had to switch off taking naps before work because we were too tired!

Then this morning she was really up. At least she ate a good breakfast and from the second she woke up she wanted to go outside. I'm trying to figure out how to get her to go to bed latter and actually sleep more at night. Lately she's been nursing so much more at night and it's like we're going in the completely wrong direction. DH wants me to just wean her flat out in the hope that she'll eat more solids. She's clearly not eating enough during the day but we just aren't sure how to get her to eat more! We offer her foods that she likes but even then she won't eat them!! We told her babysitter for just today to see if she could try and get her to take a short nap because it might help her to go to sleep later and eat more (naps are dangerous for DD because normally if she gets one it then it means that she won't go to bed until 10 or 11pm at night but still wakes up super early so she's even more tired in the long run).

While I think I'd really be happy to wean her the process scares me to no end because of how she reacts when I don't nurse her (it's not pretty and any attempts at distraction or even nightweaning have been complete failures). Oh, and another weird thing is that she keeps pointing out "boboos" that people have or complaining that different parts of her body hurt? We had asked the pediatrician because at the time it was just her feet that she kept doing this with and he said it was probably just that her shoes were too small but now she's doing it with everything ALL THE TIME and her dolls too. Sometimes she'll look over DH or my own body and look for booboos (I have a few thanks to the cat...).

I'm just not sure what is up with her and where to even start fixing it!!! Oh, and please don't move this thread to nightweaning or breastfeeding since it's really about much more than one thing.

[ellemenope]

Aw, physmom. I am so sorry about the funk. Sleep is so important to me. This too shall pass.

I certainly don't have all the answers. And, I have a hard time relating to night-feedings. (DD night-weened herself at about 8 weeks and has never looked back. I know it is unheard of in these circles, lol. I do want to be part of the club. Maybe next baby.)

I will mention that I have read a few books that cite a strong connection between feeding routine and sleeping routine. That is, healthy sleep habits foster healthy eating habits and vice-a-versa.

If your DD can't eat dinner because they are tired this is really going to screw her up, especially if she is accustomed to snacking on you at night if she gets hungry.

Getting DD to sleep (esp for naps) has been a struggle since she was about 2 weeks old. She never gets sleepy. So, I do relate to that. It is very easy to skip naps. But, your DD sounds a bit sleep deprived. Do not be afraid to reinstitute naps. Just because she fights sleep does not mean she doesn't need sleep.

I would get a nap in earlier in the day. Either right after lunch or even before. DD is now on a schedule where she eats a snack around 10 and goes down for a nap at 11:00 (45 minute nap.) Then, we eat lunch. We then start bedtime around 8:30 and she is asleep before 9:30. Any nap after 1:00 would totally push back bedtime.

This is probably just a phase. It just might be one that warrants a strict daily nap to get her through. She might be going through one heck of growth spurt. DD went through one where she took 2 hour naps instead of 45 minute ones for 2 weeks straight. She did not even eat anymore during this time so I never thought growth spurt, but she gained 2 lbs after those 2 weeks. Just think if we hadn't been putting her down for a nap? And, growing pains do hurt. I remember! Good luck!

[physmom]

Originally Posted by ellemenope

I will mention that I have read a few books that cite a strong connection between feeding routine and sleeping routine. That is, healthy sleep habits foster healthy eating habits and vice-a-versa.

If your DD can't eat dinner because they are tired this is really going to screw her up, especially if she is accustomed to snacking on you at night if she gets hungry.

Getting DD to sleep (esp for naps) has been a struggle since she was about 2 weeks old. She never gets sleepy. So, I do relate to that. It is very easy to skip naps. But, your DD sounds a bit sleep deprived. Do not be afraid to reinstitute naps. Just because she fights sleep does not mean she doesn't need sleep.

I would get a nap in earlier in the day. Either right after lunch or even before. DD is now on a schedule where she eats a snack around 10 and goes down for a nap at 11:00 (45 minute nap.) Then, we eat lunch. We then start bedtime around 8:30 and she is asleep before 9:30. Any nap after 1:00 would totally push back bedtime.

This is probably just a phase. It just might be one that warrants a strict daily nap to get her through. She might be going through one heck of growth spurt. DD went through one where she took 2 hour naps instead of 45 minute ones for 2 weeks straight. She did not even eat anymore during this time so I never thought growth spurt, but she gained 2 lbs after those 2 weeks. Just think if we hadn't been putting her down for a nap? And, growing pains do hurt. I remember! Good luck!

Oh, I agree about the food/sleep connection. The problem is that she absolutely REFUSED to nap today. Our babysitter tried pretty much the whole time she was here today and when I got home I tried again too and nothing. Although our babysitter also commented about how she was off today and there was no way to please her.

We've really tried early naps but we've never once been successful. We've tried everythingwearing, nursing, walking with her in the stroller, a routine, taking a bath first, dimming all the lights etc. We finally just threw up our hands and let her set her own naps and before now it was going really well to let her drop her naps. In general she was sleeping 13-14 hours a day, which was wonderful! However, now we're luck if she's getting 10 hours! I'm assuming part of it was her cold that got her off but now I'm not sure how to get her back to normal.

Sigh... Right now I'm feeding her pizza because I know she'll eat it. It's already after 3, which means only 2 more hours until she could possible sleep so hopefully I can get her to eat as much as possible and hopefully she won't go to sleep so early today.


ETA: don't be sad about missing out on nighttime parenting my dream is that next time around I have a kid that actually sleeps!

[carmel23]

This is what I would do.

Pick a date in a week, or 5 days where you will have a night weaning party. Explain to your little one that she will no longer nurse at night, but only during preselected times that work well for you, during the day (morning, when you come home, whenever.)

Have your dd plan what foods you will have at the party, and have cake or cookies. Get a special new cup that she can keep by her bed with water.

Make a big deal about the party-- talk about how she is going to have a celebration and after the party, she will no longer nurse at night, but only user her big girl cup.

I think if she knows it, and feels like she is part of the plan and has control over it, then it won't be so scary. All her life when she is hungry at night, she has been able to nurse. You can't do that anymore. But just doing it in the middle of the night is kind of shocking and not really fair. yk?

Does she drink milk, or another high fat milk-- coconut or almond milk?

Do you think if you just switched to water she would eat more solid foods? Also, having a snack like grapes, apples or something fairly teeth friendly by the bed with her cup would be helpful. If she wakes she can eat these snacks and go back to bed.

Also, is her activity level during the day meeting her needs? Does she get out to the park in the morning? Fresh air always wears my kids out better/faster.

[ellemenope]

I am so thankful that babywearing works for DD. It is the only thing that works right now. And, it still takes up to an hour to get her to fall asleep back there, and is only working about 60% of the time right now.

DD has never ever ever just lied down and taken a nap. I have tried lying down next to her for hours and it did not work. She has not even fallen asleep in the car or stroller since she was 18 months. At 21 months, if the ergo did not work, we would have been right where you are right now. Nothing but the ergo has worked since about 18 months.

I think a lot of it right now is routine for DD. She knows when I say I have to clean up the house she is getting in that ergo. She knows she gets her blankie and we listen to the same song over and over. She protests and protests, but once she is in there and has her blankie and she hears that music and I start dancing around she just melts. I can feel it. I really feel I have wired her for this now.

But, this doesn't really help you, does it?

Perhaps, waking her up earlier in the morning and at least trying to get her down at the same time everyday using the same routine for a few weeks might get her wired for it, too. Nothing will happen overnight. It will definately take at least two weeks for any new routine to take hold.

There are many methods to try. You just have to be focused and let DD know what the routine is. And, I am sure you already know this, but it is not like you can shop around for a routine every couple of days. You got to stick with one for weeks before it will work.

I would maybe try bundleing her up tight and putting her in a umbrella stroller and taking her out for a brisk but extremely boring walk. Let her know you've got business to do and that you can't interact with her. If she whines reassure her that when your business is finished she can get out. In this weather, you might have a good chance of her conking out.

I know this is what I have had to do. But, this even sounds daunting to me when I write all this down. It sounds like it has been a long time since your DD has had a routine when it comes to naps. This might keep on working for you, but I do warn you, you will have weeks like this where it really does become apparent that she needed a nap. I know it does for DD. Every now and then there is a week where I skip DD's nap and I realize by about 5:00 she really did need napping that week. Then, the next 4 or 5 weeks she misses a nap here and there and it is fine. They just have good weeks and bad.

And, not to scare you, but DD was much better about getting through the day without a nap at 18 months then she is now. She is just so much more active and emotional. I am really thankful that she is still napping at this age. I probably would not have said that at 21 months.

[physmom]

Originally Posted by carmel23

This is what I would do.

Pick a date in a week, or 5 days where you will have a night weaning party. Explain to your little one that she will no longer nurse at night, but only during preselected times that work well for you, during the day (morning, when you come home, whenever.)

Have your dd plan what foods you will have at the party, and have cake or cookies. Get a special new cup that she can keep by her bed with water.

Make a big deal about the party-- talk about how she is going to have a celebration and after the party, she will no longer nurse at night, but only user her big girl cup.

I think if she knows it, and feels like she is part of the plan and has control over it, then it won't be so scary. All her life when she is hungry at night, she has been able to nurse. You can't do that anymore. But just doing it in the middle of the night is kind of shocking and not really fair. yk?

Does she drink milk, or another high fat milk-- coconut or almond milk?

Do you think if you just switched to water she would eat more solid foods? Also, having a snack like grapes, apples or something fairly teeth friendly by the bed with her cup would be helpful. If she wakes she can eat these snacks and go back to bed.

Also, is her activity level during the day meeting her needs? Does she get out to the park in the morning? Fresh air always wears my kids out better/faster.

The nightweaning party sounds fun. In the past nightweaning has always been a failure because she just never falls back to sleep without nursing (as in sometimes she'll be up for 3 hours! ) even if I offer water/food.

The reason I stopped the past two nights was that I was completely empty and she had been nursing for over an hour (and it hurts when she nurses and I'm empty)! When she was a newborn that was fine because I was trying to establish a supply but in the middle of the night for someone who really struggles with insomnia if I'm up to long it's not going to happen. Normally her night wakings last at most 20 minutes (maybe a bit longer if she has to get up to pee) even on days they are frequent they normally don't last too long. But even then sometimes 20 minutes is enough to keep me up for hours.

She does drink cow's milk occasionally. She'll drink more if DH offers it and we also giver her smoothies although she's shown less and less interest in them lately (mostly she just likes watching me make them in the blender so she'll ask for them and then not drink a sip). Even getting water in her can be a struggle (again, something that DH seems to be much better at than me because with me she just wants to nurse).

We'll try the nighttime snack. She's on an apple kick at the moment so that might help.

Yesterday her activity levels were zero. We wanted to take her outside but just couldn't because of all the tantrums she was having. Today she's been out quite a bit and she does seem to be eating more, which is good. She even had some chicken and black beans just now, which is encouraging, and at the moment she's eating an orange (ok, I'm coming back to add she killed that orange and asked for more but we're out of fruit so I'm giving her a leftover apple cinnamon pancake that's she's already eating). She also doesn't look like she's about to pass out even though it's almost 5 pm so hopefully she waits until at least 6pm to fall asleep because I'm not sure if we can handle another 5am wake up!

I also wonder if she might be a bit constipated. She's been having a lot of gas and hasn't had a bowel movement in a couple of days so maybe that's at play here too.

[carmel23]

I get burned out with night nursing around 20 months. I also give my kids chamomile tea if they're having trouble sleeping.

She may still not feel well, and as adult we know we don't feel well, and take it easy, but kids don't know why they feel crummy...

[physmom]

Well, I do think part of it was constipation. She had a pretty big bowel movement yesterday (sorry for TMI!) and was slightly better. What we did is when she passed out at almost 5am yesterday we woke her up a bit after 6. Then we fed her a lot (she seemed to be much more interested in food then) but she wouldn't go back to sleep until 10pm!!! And then she woke up at 5:30. She didn't wake up as much at night, though, which was good at least. However, that was definitely not enough sleep for one day for her! She did at least eat well this morning, so that was nice...

The nap seemed to ensure she wakes up less at night but then sleeps about 2 hours less per day. Ugh! I actually hurt my back yesterday and started seeing a chiropractor this week. I talked with him and we're going to try and start taking DD to see if that could help at all. I'm about to try anything at this point.

Originally Posted by carmel23

I get burned out with night nursing around 20 months. I also give my kids chamomile tea if they're having trouble sleeping.

She may still not feel well, and as adult we know we don't feel well, and take it easy, but kids don't know why they feel crummy...

Did your kids drink it warm? How did you give it to them? DD gets really freaked out about anything remotely hot...

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by physmom

Well, I do think part of it was constipation. She had a pretty big bowel movement yesterday (sorry for TMI!) and was slightly better. What we did is when she passed out at almost 5am yesterday we woke her up a bit after 6. Then we fed her a lot (she seemed to be much more interested in food then) but she wouldn't go back to sleep until 10pm!!! And then she woke up at 5:30. She didn't wake up as much at night, though, which was good at least. However, that was definitely not enough sleep for one day for her! She did at least eat well this morning, so that was nice...

The nap seemed to ensure she wakes up less at night but then sleeps about 2 hours less per day. Ugh! I actually hurt my back yesterday and started seeing a chiropractor this week. I talked with him and we're going to try and start taking DD to see if that could help at all. I'm about to try anything at this point.










Did your kids drink it warm? How did you give it to them? DD gets really freaked out about anything remotely hot...

Does she have a safe place to be if she wakes at night, and you are still sleeping? Honestly, I would just let her be awake, if she wants to, but tell her you are going to sleep, if that is possible.

My kids drink it warm, but I don't see why you couldn't make a nice infusion, and serve it to her cold.

[physmom]

Originally Posted by carmel23

Does she have a safe place to be if she wakes at night, and you are still sleeping? Honestly, I would just let her be awake, if she wants to, but tell her you are going to sleep, if that is possible.

My kids drink it warm, but I don't see why you couldn't make a nice infusion, and serve it to her cold.

Yep. Our bedroom is completely babyproofed. We've tried letting her roam around if need be but that normally leads to her trying to attack DH and myself until we wake up. Either that or banging on the door non-stop yelling "open" at the top of her lungs.

She got another nap today... which meant she didn't fall asleep until 10pm. I'm just really hoping we don't have another extremely super early wake-up. There's no way she's getting enough sleep!