Start UPing and have a UC? Possible Breech/Transverse

[redheadinlove]

Sorry this is WAY too long, but I don't really have anyone to support me and talk to other than my husband and our baby will be his first.

A little history - I had my son almost 9 years ago. I was told that he was breech at around 32 weeks, scheduled for an amniocentesis for lung maturity and a c/s. A week before the scheduled procedures when I was 36 weeks, I went into labor. I was young, and didn't know I was in labor. I just thought I had a bad case of constipation. Once my mom and I realized I was in labor, we headed to the car. On our way, my water broke and a foot popped out. An ambulance was called and I was rushed to the hospital. Once we arrived they said I was dilated to 10 and to start pushing. I thought I was going to get a vaginal breech delivery, but what I got was an extraction. He was coming out fine, then they grabbed his leg and he started going back in. The doctor then decided he needed to reach in with both hands and pull him out. Then they whisked him away.

It took about 25 minutes to stitch me up, I tore almost all the way to the middle of my crack (sorry tmi). Other than the terrible recovery from the tear, I was fine and so was my son. His lungs were fine, he weighed 5 lbs 14 oz and was 19 inches long. He is now a healthy 9 year old boy.

I didn't get to see him until about an hour after the birth and the whole experience was really traumatic for me and probably him too. I have since been diagnosed with a bicornuate uterus and told that was likely the reason for him being breech.

I am 33 weeks and 4 days pregnant now. I have been doing routine prenatal care with an OB, including many tests I am sure were unnecessary. I was also told that she doesn't do vaginal breech birth, no one does, so if he is breech I will need a c/s. She will let me go until 39 weeks to see if he turns. I had my last appointment around 30 weeks, where I was told he was breech and we would do an ultrasound in a few weeks to check position. I also failed the Glucose test by 4 points and would need to do the 3 hours test. She also strongly recommended I get a flu shot with swine flu shot included.

This pretty much did it for me. I have never had any reason to believe I have GD and I am not putting my body through fasting and then drinking that liquid sugar crap again. Also, I am 100% against a c/s. When the time came for my 32 week appointment, I really didn't want to go. So I canceled it, and said I would call to reschedule. That was about 2 weeks ago, I have not rescheduled and they haven't called.

Now to the point- I really don't want to go back to my OB and be ridiculed for not taking the 3 hour test or getting a shot. I don't want a hospital birth let alone a c/s. This baby is REALLY active and seems to flip A LOT, but it feels like he always moves back to a breech or transverse position. My son didn't move very much and I don't think his head ever moved from my top left side because there was always a large bump there. I am hoping that he stretched it out for this one and that is why he is able to move around so much. I am praying that he will be able to turn head down, but if he doesn't I am pretty confident I can have him breech unassisted with just my husband. I really think that when that foot popped out, had I done my research, been in water, trusted in my body and the birth process and calmly pushed him out, everything could have been fine and I would have avoided that awful situation.

What would you do? Should I make another appointment to check position? Does it not matter since I would try breech anyway? If something happens and I need to transfer, will I be treated badly if I didn't continue prenatal care past 30 weeks? If I have a successful unassisted birth, breech or not, what do I do after? Do I just take the baby to a pediatrician in the next few days? Do I call my OB? I don't really want the post partum check up either. As long as I am feeling fine and have no weird symptoms, I don't think it is necessary.

Also as I said before, I don't have support other than my husband. My mother is very medically oriented and worried because of the way my son's birth happened and my bicornuate uterus. She always asks questions, so I lied and said I went to the doc appointment when I canceled it, and I will have to keep lying or she will freak out. What makes it even harder is we currently live with her. We are trying to rent a house in the next month, but don't know if it will happen so I don't know if an unassisted birth would even be possible. She is already talking about being in the room at the hospital, etc so I am afraid she will call 911 or try to force me to the hospital.

Any advice or similar experiences would really be appreciated. Thanks!

[MittensKittens]

What a difficult situation to be in! While I would not have any qualms about giving birth to a breech baby unassisted, transverse babies can obviously not be born vaginally. I don't know enough about bicornuate uteri to be able to judge the risks. In your situation, I would at least consider the possibility that you might need medical care in an emergency situation.

Do you know about the Spinning Babies website? It is very helpful for learning to accurately assess the position of the baby. If you are confident that you know what position your baby is in at the time you go into labor, you can make decisions on the basis of that.

[kittywitty]

I would check out Spinning Babies. Also, since you have already had a vag breech birth, I can't blame you for not wanting a c/s. If you can get down to The Farm, I think they do them, or you may be able to rent a hotel room if you think you're in labor so you won't be at home where your parents could call 911.

You could go to the hospital after, call an ambulance (depending on circumstances, of course) or just not do anything. I never went for a postpartum checkup after my UC with #4. Some people take their kids to the pediatrician a few days after birth, especially if they want tests done. I may or may not. If baby is healthy, I probably will not for at least a week.

[dayiscoming2006]

I'd UC a breech baby. I like the PP suggestions but just wanted to chime in.
I'd probably stay home if you aren't terribly far from a hospital and if everyone is supportive who is there - (not going to panic and call 911 for nothing.)

Read up on UC and UC birth stories and check out the UC resources thread with info on how to handle complications.

I would totally be freaking out if what had happened to you had happened to me. It's great that you got to deliver your son vaginally but OUCH! That doctor was probably too ignorant to know how to handle the breech delivery.

[karynao]

Hi,

I just wanted to answer your question.
What would you do?

I would get a new doctor or midwife. It's not too late.
I would continue to trust your instincts.
I would sit down w/your mom explain your fears. constantly remind her during your talk that it is YOU who is having the baby. You appreciate her concerns and love for you but what YOU need from her is SUPPORT.
INVOLVE her by asking her to help you look for a new dr/midwife.
YOu also need an advocate.
Is a Doula an option?

There might be complications. What it sounds like you need is support and a safe place to birth. It is frustrating to have to fight when you should be focusing on yourself and the baby.

If you can only go back to your dr. I would be very clear. Perhaps your husband could accompany you. Demand answers, demand respect.
If you are in america are you not paying this person?
IF the Dr. "feels" strongly about that. Look for someone else.
TRUST you will find it. You will be so proud of yourself that you have demanded the birth experience you want.

Good Luck!

[dayiscoming2006]

karynao is wrong about getting a doc to go along with a breech delivery if that was what she was trying to say. I don't think any doctors will do those anymore on purpose anyway.

Do what you feel is right for you and baby. I must have missed the part about you living with your mom. Woops!

If you can't rent an apartment by the time you have to birth then, the idea of going to hotel sounded good from a PP. I totally get why you are lying to your mom. It isn't any of her business anyway. Not really. Definitely try to get out of there before you have to give birth if possible. That'll make things easier on you. She'll get over it if she finds out you gave birth without her. If you feel confident in speaking to her, you can tell her that you would prefer if it was an experience just between you and the father. And then fib about having a hospital birth if you would rather she didn't know it was an UC and if she asks questions you just say everything went fine (if it goes fine.) If something goes wrong and you have to transfer, then your mom doesn't need to know too much about it. She can just know about the hospital part of the experience if you want her to know.

[dayiscoming2006]

I wanted to add that I don't tell my parents anything about my pregnancy or birthing plans at the moment. They don't seem to ask too many questions this time around thankfully so that is working out. But, they used to be really nosey about it, it's up to you to decide that you're not going to share any more about it if you don't want to.

My parents probably think that I'm planning a home birth with a midwife because of what I posted on facebook and I'm not telling them otherwise. If my mom asks questions I'll keep it very general. Things went great, it was a great birth, etc. Then switch to talking about how cute baby is.

[stik]

It's possible to safely birth a baby in the footling or full breech position, although it makes many doctors nervous. However, a c-section is the only physically possible delivery for a baby who is transverse.

Spinningbabies.com has great info, and the techniques might help you. But you should also prepare yourself for the possibility that your baby will not turn, and you will need a c-section. Working with your doc would be a good plan here - you probably don't want to be operated on by someone who will be surprised by your bicornate uterus.

[LisaSedai]

karynao is wrong about getting a doc to go along with a breech delivery if that was what she was trying to say. I don't think any doctors will do those anymore on purpose anyway.

My OB in Atlanta GA does alot of breech vaginal births (because no one else will- along with twins,triplets and vbacs!)

OP It is so unfair that your OB will not consider a vaginal birth for you especially since you have proven you *Can* birth a breech baby. Have you called around to see if there are any OB/MW/FP that you could transfer to? If you are within 3 hours of Atlanta there is one I can suggest you try

Good luck & ELV -

[Jennifer Margulis]

After the baby's born

I wanted to reply to your question about what to do after the baby is born. I had my last baby at home unassisted and was nervous about her not being seen by a doctor or even a midwife. But there was no actual reason that she needed to be evaluated! She was perfect. That said, when a midwife friend came by to see her and said as much, I stopped fretting about it.

I never like taking a healthy tiny baby to a doctor's office (where there are sick people). But you need to gauge how you feel after the birth. If you'll feel less anxious bringing the baby in (and if you want to vaccinate her at birth), then it makes sense to do so. For me, my anxiety levels go way up at the doctor's office and I often come away feeling disrespected (made to wait for unreasonably long periods of time, chastised for refusing the medical intervention "offered," given free samples of products that are harmful, etc.)

I also wanted to say that I'm sorry for what you are going through, and for how badly you are being treated during this pregnancy. Unfortunately, it's indicative of a much larger problem in pre and post natal care in our country. Don't go back to that practice where no one seems to be listening to you, caring for you, or giving you options. Perhaps, instead, you could find a homebirth midwife in your area?

I know a midwife here who had three unassisted homebirths with a lot of complications (let's call them special circumstances). She is incredibly kind, generous, and supportive, and her goal is to support laboring women. I am sure she would welcome a phone call from you and have a lot of very good advice to give you (and support). If you are interested in talking to her, please contact me privately (my email is on my website at www.jennifermargulis.net) and I will put you in touch.

[dayiscoming2006]

OK, sorry for saying it's flat out impossible to find a doc who will do a breech birth but I do believe they are very rare. Hope you find what you are looking for, whatever that may be.

[redheadinlove]

MittensKittens - I am really hoping he won’t be in transverse position for delivery. I think he is breech more of the time than transverse anyway so I am keeping my fingers crossed. The risks that come with a bicornuate uterus are early miscarriage, growth restriction (he is growing fine), abnormal presentation (breech, transverse), and premature labor. I am not against calling 911 or going to the hospital if treatment is needed. However if it isn’t, I don’t want to be in the hospital and be subject to unnecessary treatments and procedures. If I could have an ambulance wait outside my house just in case to satisfy my mom’s worries, I would do that, but unfortunately things don’t work that way. Also, I will definitely be heading to Spinningbabies.com.

What if 911 is called, but then not needed, can I refuse to go with them?

KittyWitty - I live in Michigan, so the farm is a little too far. Getting a hotel room is a good idea though. I was thinking about the pediatrician because I thought that might make it easier to get a birth certificate, but I guess a few days or a week doesn’t make much of a difference.

Has anyone birthed in a hotel room? How was your experience? I am curious how it would work, what clean up would be like, etc.

Day - I live within an hour of at least 5 hospitals. I have been reading tons of birth stories, resources, I am going to print Emergency Childbirth and other UC documents. My husband was in the military and received some medical training. He also knows how to do infant cpr. The doctor DEF didn’t know what he was doing. There were 17 doctors and nurses people in the room, and it was a teaching hospital so most of them were learning and learned his awful technique. Also, what REALLY ticked me off was that I was only 17, scared and wanted my mom then and they wouldn’t let her in. Out of those 17 people they could of got rid of half and gave me my mom but nope. I didn’t see her until about 45 minutes after. Thanks so much for all your kind words. I love my mom but she can be quite overbearing. I understand she is worried, and I have thought about trying to talk to her about it, but the one time I mentioned a home birth, she pretty much cringed. Waiting until after the event to tell her is probably better. It is harder to worry about the details when everyone is fine and there is an adorable baby in front of her.

Karynao – Trusting my instincts would be to no longer see my OB and have a UC. As Day stated, finding a doctor or midwife here that is supportive of a breech is pretty much impossible. Even then, they probably would require a complete breech. My son was a footling, that could be a possibility again and I am okay with that, but I am sure they wouldn’t be. My insurance is Medicaid, so my choices are pretty limited as well, and we can’t afford to pay a midwife out of pocket. Also, I feel that birth is an intimate thing between me and my husband. I don’t like the thought of strangers being involved.

Lisa – I live in Michigan, and unfortunately there is no one around me that does breech.

Thank you everyone so much for your kind words, advice and support.

[NewSolarMomma]

UC can be a great option, but If I was in your situation I would bite the bullet and stick with the OB and the hospital this time. maybe you can UC the next one! I am only saying this because you ASKED for opinions : )

There are lots of people that talk about how great UC and HB is for low risk cases, but, unfortunatley, this is not low risk at all. This is what hospitals are there for, and its better to be there than hope you can transfer in time. And hotels are full of germs!

I know its not what you want, but Im sure a healthy baby is more important, and this is the best way to get one in your situation. There are just way to many risks for me to feel comfortable suggesting UC or HB. I know you are limited by your Medicaid, but I bet you could find a hospital that will treat you well.

I'm also sorry you had such a bad experience the first time, that tear sounds awful!

Good luck!

[NewSolarMomma]

I also wanted to add that I had to have a CS about 12 weeks ago when my son was born, and it was not what I expected- it went very well!

I was as low risk as it gets, everyone said I would have no problems, and that the baby was around 7#. I expected to push him out alone! BUT After 35 hours of labor, fully dilated, fully effaced, then 2 hours of pushing, 2 hours of "laboring down", then 1.5 MORE hours of pushing, the baby had other plans! He was stuck! You could see the top of his head, but he wouldn't come down. When they got him out, they said he was totally stuck, like a cork in a bottle, and it had started to effect his breathing. He also was 9.2#, not 7 !

Anyway, I wanted to let you know that my CS was much better than expected in every way, so if you have to have one it will be OK. It doesn't have to be horrible! I was home after 3 days, up and running errands after a week, totally back to normal by 2 weeks. Pain control was excellent, and the nurses were caring. I thought it would be traumatic- and it WAS scary at first- but it ended up fine, my DH was with me the whole time. I got to nurse him right away, and he latched on like a champ!

Best Wishes!

[kittywitty]

It does not have to be horrible, no. But this is not what she wants and it's reasonable she would want to avoid it. At the very least, the increased neonatal and maternal death rate warrant doing whatever possible to avoid it.

Btw- baby weight estimates are notoriously wrong and scientifically unproven. They said my son was huge, they induced, he was premature and still has neuro issues. And barely 7 lbs instead of the 9+ they were guessing. A 9 lb baby is not difficult to birth compared to other weights. It's fairly common. Not that your c-section was not warranted or good for you, but just because a baby is above the "average" does not mean a c-section is necessary. At all.

Can you see a chiropractor for the Webster technique? Transverse birth will NOT happen, but breech is certainly possible.

[NewSolarMomma]

Originally Posted by kittywitty

It does not have to be horrible, no. But this is not what she wants and it's reasonable she would want to avoid it. At the very least, the increased neonatal and maternal death rate warrant doing whatever possible to avoid it.

Btw- baby weight estimates are notoriously wrong and scientifically unproven. They said my son was huge, they induced, he was premature and still has neuro issues. And barely 7 lbs instead of the 9+ they were guessing. A 9 lb baby is not difficult to birth compared to other weights. It's fairly common. Not that your c-section was not warranted or good for you, but just because a baby is above the "average" does not mean a c-section is necessary. At all.
.

I would want to avoid it too, but if you cannot avoid it it's always good to know that it can be an OK experience. I wish someone had told me this! I wouldn't have been as terrified had I known.

My CS wasn't because he was 9#, which is not even big these days. It was because his HEAD was too big to fit through my pelvis. I've heard it's not too common for the head to be too big (more common to get stuck because of baby's position, NOT head size) but it does happen. My little guy came out with a Charlie Brown noggin!

Its amazing to me that with all the technology we have, we still can't figure out how big a baby is!

[klemomma]

Just wanted to add a few points:

I would definitely NOT call 911 and then refuse to go with them. There is a chance they will freak out and cause a lot of issues for you. I know a local family that did this - called 911 (for issues with mom, not the baby), but just wanted to paramedics to check mom out, not have her go to the hospital, and they freaked and demanded the baby go to the hospital. They then took the baby to the hospital. Then, they ended up having CPS called on them AND were criminally charged with child endangering.

This is not to say that you shouldn't call 911. If you even think there is a chance you need them, you should call. But, once you call, you should accept that you have entered the system and will have to go along with it.

Also, I would rather have a c/s than a breech with an caregiver inexperienced in breech births. This is exactly what you experienced before - trauma at the hands of a caregiver who doesn't know what they are doing.

I honestly don't know what I would do in your position, OP. I'm sorry you are going through this :-( If it were me, I would probably start by looking to see if anyone would attend a vaginal breech birth - just to rule out the possibility. If I found someone, I wouldn't necessarily forgo a UC, but I always feel better when I know what options I have. Having that as an option you could choose would be nice, I think. Knowing that it truly isn't an option would also be helpful.

Best of luck to you, mama, and please keep us posted :-)

[menomena]

Originally Posted by redheadinlove

Lisa – I live in Michigan, and unfortunately there is no one around me that does breech.

If you're within an hour or so's radius of Traverse City, I believe my homebirth MW does breech. PM me if you're interested in her info.

[Jacksonmom]

I would UC. But, that's me. Praying for you during this decision time.

[Illiana]

I had my baby about a month ago and he was an 11+ pound footling breech baby. (he turned breech at 39 weeks). The most important thing to remember is to not have anyone touch anything down there during the birth unless the arms are up by the head. Read emergency childbirth and check out laura shanely's website and yahoo group (unassisted childbirth).