some grade skip questions

[VisionaryMom]

We are not looking at grade skipping right now, but it is something I have thought about for DS.

I just enrolled him in public K after a disastrous attempt at homeschooling. He is going to a 1st grade class for reading, which surprised me (though that's a different thread entirely).

I will need to speak to his teacher about math because he said that he's not doing math. He said last Friday that he was sad because he'd been put in a small math group with only a couple of 1st grade kids. Most of the kids in his class were in "really big" math groups. Yesterday he said that his teacher said that she's not sure about math, so he watched a "math movie." Obviously I have 5YO filtering on that sequence of events, but it wouldn't surprise me because a) he's beyond 1st grade math and b) he gets antsy and lack the impulse control not to shout out the answers or distract when math is well below where he is working.

I will give it the rest of this week so that his teacher has time to evaluate him fully, but then I'll go in to see where she has him (and possibly take some of the work he has from home).

His school is only K-1. They talk a lot about multi-age classrooms being great and flexibility, but let's be honest. If they're not sure where to put him now, what will they do with him next year?

I don't have any desire to push for a grade skip this year and really am not sure that's the right option anyway, but I am wondering about whether it may be better in the future. When your child is accelerated in math & reading, which I consider to be the core of elementary-school academics, then doesn't it make sense to move him up a grade at some point rather than continue this weird division? That's to say nothing of DD, who is 3, but I think she's a bit ahead of where DS was at her age (and yes, I know that one-to-one comparisons of a specific age aren't particularly meaningful).

If your child has skipped a grade, when? What that a good time? How did it go?

[KCMichigan]

I dont have a grade skipper (yet), but a few things I would want to bring to a meeting with the school....and I WOULD meet with the school (teacher, principal, whomever else works with your child).

1. Is his written language equal or near his reading/writing.....often reading and writing go hand in hand. I have seen a lot of gifted/advanced kids get frustrated when they can read and understand the material, but do not have the fine motor skills to compose what they want/need to.
* adaptations to this could be the opportunity to type/ dictate/ or other accommodation

2. Is the reading/math group he is in advanced (even if it is a 1st grade group...does it have 1st graders working at a higher level?)

3. How would they work with science/social studies? etc?

4. Do you have flexibility to go to another building and/or when he moves to 2nd grade ( you said he is in a K/1st building)?

I would sit down and formulate a plan with the school on how to meet his needs in the current setting and then discuss next year and/or future options.

They *may* have gifted programming for later grades and/or a mixed grade level class.

[whatsnextmom]

My DD did a mid-year skip from kindie to 1st. She was assessed as 2 to 5 grade levels advanced the first couple weeks of kindie. We went through a series of trials. First, "class helper" which didn't work, then in-class differentiation which DD found too iscolating. They tried pulling her out with time in the school library and reading with the librarian. Then they sent her to first for reading and math. At one point, DD just asked not to go back to kindie and we agreed to the grade skip which is what the principal had suggested from the beginning. I'm glad that we tried several other options first as we have never had to play the "what-if" game... niether has DD.

We did have a few bumps in the beginning largely due to things like DD feeling stupid for not knowing where the pencil sharpener was, or now knowing that "regrouping" was the new word for "borrowing and carrying" (which, of course, she already knew how to do.) It all smoothed out in a couple weeks. We were offered an additional skip a couple years later but DD refused it.

DD is 13 and in 9th grade. She's has subject accelerations in math and science as well as being in the highly gifted program for her other subjects. She is grateful for the grade skip and I'm glad we did it earlier rather than later.

It's not for all. We were offered a skip for DS but refused it. For starters, he was already young for kindie starting at 4 in a school that heavily red-shirts kids (and thus already a year younger than most of his classmates.) He is very bright but not nearly as focused, organized or driven as DD. He has tremendous handwriting problems and not as confident in his abilities. Plus, he's extremely social and things like age, height, ability to kick a soccer ball... those things were very, very important to him. So, we moved him into an immersion school with accelerated academics, a strong GATE program and differentiation options. It was the right move for him.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by KCMichigan

1. Is his written language equal or near his reading/writing.....often reading and writing go hand in hand. I have seen a lot of gifted/advanced kids get frustrated when they can read and understand the material, but do not have the fine motor skills to compose what they want/need to.
* adaptations to this could be the opportunity to type/ dictate/ or other accommodation

His writing looks pretty good, but his hand does start to hurt fairly quickly. That was a problem we had when homeschooling b/c the curriculum at his level was too writing-heavy for him. His comprehension and contextual reading are far above his actual decoding ability, which is why I'm so surprised that he was moved to the 1st grade group. I really didn't think his decoding ability is particularly advanced, but I'm not sure of where the other kids really are.

They're sending him home picture books that they've read to the group at school. He always knows them when he gets home, but I really am not sure that he's truly reading them.

Originally Posted by KCMichigan

2. Is the reading/math group he is in advanced (even if it is a 1st grade group...does it have 1st graders working at a higher level?)

Hmm, I'm not sure. I will ask when we go in.

Originally Posted by KCMichigan

3. How would they work with science/social studies? etc?

I'm not sure. I have looked at the curriculum for both science & social studies, and there's really nothing new in there. Science is mostly living vs. non-living, ocean life, etc., and social studies is neighborhoods/communities. So I don't think there'd be a problem in moving ahead in those areas.

Originally Posted by KCMichigan

4. Do you have flexibility to go to another building and/or when he moves to 2nd grade ( you said he is in a K/1st building)?

The 2-5 building is really close - maybe 1 mile away. I don't know that he could move between buildings during the day, but I could drive him if that were the only option available. It's not my first choice, though.

Each "pod" in his school has 2 K classes and 2 1st grade classes with the idea that students can move between them. So, there can be, say, 8 reading groups between all 4 classes, and each teacher is responsible for 2. That sounds good in theory (and probably is preferable to each teacher trying to have 8 small groups), but the problem then is that there is nowhere to send really advanced students. I suppose I think we'll wait it out through K, but then 1st grade is where we may have to start pushing for a grade skip because then he would be in a school with more wiggle room.

Originally Posted by KCMichigan

They *may* have gifted programming for later grades and/or a mixed grade level class.

Beginning in Gr2, they pull 25% of the students and track them together. They consider them "likely to be advanced," and then in Gr 4, they test the ones in that group that teachers have identified as candidates for the gifted program. The problem, obviously, is that they don't then *start* gifted until Gr 5! Too me, that's just too late.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom

First, "class helper" which didn't work, then in-class differentiation which DD found too iscolating.

Yeah, I don't see either of those working for DS. For starters, he becomes downright bossy when he's supposed to be helping DD. He would love in-class differentiation, but he tends toward being an isolationist anyway. Actually that's not entirely true. Other children listen to whatever he says and always have. So he tends to distance himself from the other kids until he has a scheme (yeah, talk about the potential for good or evil!), but he's perfectly happy playing alone all the time. I'm afraid if we went w/ an in-class option, it would encourage him not to make any friends ever.

He was put back into the large group math today because he said his teacher told him that they don't have a group for him. They made a "counting book" with pictures of objects and the numbers. Maybe I'm showing a significant bias here, but really??? There really are kindergarteners who cannot count to 10? I just find that shocking.

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom

For starters, he was already young for kindie starting at 4 in a school that heavily red-shirts kids (and thus already a year younger than most of his classmates.)

We are not in an area where red-shirting is common. I think perhaps that's why I've gone into this with the idea that K is "the new 1st grade." I think that's probably true in places where students are 6 going into K, but here they are the standard 5YOs. That makes DS stand out more.

[whatsnextmom]

Yeah, I don't see either of those working for DS.

We knew those wouldn't work either but felt it important to give the teacher a chance to try what she knew. In the end, I'm grateful we went through that process as the teacher was the one to go to the principal and went to bat for DD. Sometimes giving the administration their trials so they can "be sure" is worth it.

Maybe I'm showing a significant bias here, but really??? There really are kindergarteners who cannot count to 10? I just find that shocking.

No, that's pretty unusual. I taught underpriviledged preschoolers for several years and I can't think of more than a tiny handful that couldn't count 10 items correctly before going to kindie. I know several kids in DS's kindie class could count past 100 the first week. By this time of year, they were adding and subtracting small numbers. Sure, not as advanced as you'd probably need but certainly well passed the count to 10 projects.



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[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom

No, that's pretty unusual. I taught underpriviledged preschoolers for several years and I can't think of more than a tiny handful that couldn't count 10 items correctly before going to kindie. I know several kids in DS's kindie class could count past 100 the first week. By this time of year, they were adding and subtracting small numbers. Sure, not as advanced as you'd probably need but certainly well passed the count to 10 projects.

Although it doesn't feel like it to me (self-selection of friends & all that, I suppose), we are in a really impoverished, uneducated state all around. Acc to stats the school has, about half of the kids live below the poverty level. A good number are native Spanish speakers with non-English-speaking parents. I'm sure that all plays into it, but geez, they're 2.5 months into school.

One of the daycares we considered for DD3 harped on how they're "educated-based" and starting going on about how they teach the kids to identify letters and to know their numbers - before kindergarten! Yeah, DD has been doing that for 18 months or so. She's reading small words. I just find it incredibly difficult to believe that there aren't other children like ours. Maybe their parents are less concerned??? I don't know, but DH wants to move after looking at the school's curriculum map. (Okay, he wanted to move before, but that's giving him ammo to push up the process.)

[A&A]

I just want to say that my dd's grade skip was the best thing we did for her, school-wise!

[cyncyn]

We have been really happy with my dd's skip. She was in a 1/2 blend last year as a first grader and it was pretty clear that she had completed all the 2nd grade benchmarks. She was in the highest second grade math group already and would have had the same teacher again for second grade. She previously went to a public K and was sent to a first grade room for reading and spelling tests, plus got first grade homework. The sending out to a different room is disruptive IMHO.

I think a good time for a skip is when the next year's key benchmarks are mostly met and the curriculum would be repetitive in the next standard grade. Around here, I had heard 2nd grade was mostly getting kids up to speed for the increased literacy demands of 3rd grade. Jumping to the new building next year for 2nd (skipping first grade) would open up a lot more options for differentiation for your ds at the very least.

DD was also tested at this previous school for reading and for TAG. Her scores from those helped with the skip at her new school so we had a pretty easy time negotiating the skip. After I got dd's report card in the spring, I talked to her teacher a couple times at the end of first grade (June) and he checked with admin and the teachers in the grade she would be moving to. It is a public charter so it might be more flexible.

She is now in a 3-4-5 blend and it is working out great. She is being challenged more and is enjoying learning. There is a lot more writing in these grades and I feel lucky that dd had a crash course in that when she went to the first grade room in K. All those spelling tests have paid off now! Writing is an activity she enjoys outside of school so that helps too. I would keep your child's writing skills and enjoyment level in mind when considering a skip.

We are very happy with the skip and her school overall.