Another "other people's kids" post...

[Kreeblim]

I never know how to deal with other people's kids, and sometimes it borders on dangerous. This last incident at a playgroup was a bunch of kids in the 4-6 year old range running around a little playground while some parents hung out there, and others were doing stuff inside a building with younger kids. The 4-6 crowd was picking up handfuls of leaves and throwing them, sometimes dropping from the top of climbing playground, and sometimes actually throwing at people. I noticed some woodchips, dirt and rocks getting scooped up instead by certain kids, so I just reminded everyone that while leaves are OK, rocks, sticks and dirt are not. I was the ONLY parent saying anything to any of them and there were maybe one or two others watching from a distance (my husband was here and dealing with our younger kids though).

Shortly after, one specific kid scooped up a huge double handful of JUST dirt, woodchips and rocks, and threw it into another kid's face point blank, causing that kid to stop in his tracks and rub his eyes while spitting out dirt. I got up, and followed the thrower and said in my stern-but-understanding voice: "Hey, no throwing rocks, woodchips or dirt because it could really hurt someone. You can throw leaves though..." and literally as I was saying the last part he bend over, scooped up a bunch of woodchips, and threw them at my face. It was a direct hit from like 2 feet away and got in my eyes and mouth. I was just totally stunned silent. He then ran off, scooped up another handful of dirt and woodchips and ran to the slide as my husband was getting to the bottom with my 10 month old and chucked it in his direction before running to the other side to throw more at other kids. Fortunately my husband’s legs were the only things hit and the baby wasn't at all.

I have no idea how to handle these things. If this happened with my kid we'd go to another part of the park IMMEDIATELY because they can't play with other kids if they hurt them. I don't think we've have ever gotten past the "Throw leaves please, not dirt/sticks/rocks" request though since they already understand that. The kid was probably 5 and his parent might have been one of the ones watching from a distance, or maybe his parent was out of eyesight completely, I have no idea. I got the distinct impression that if I asked him to come sit with me or walk to another part of the playground that he would probably be a fighter and screamer (and I do not want to touch some other persons kid to force them to talk with me) or just throw another handful of woodchips in my face. The next thing I did was tell my boys to go into the building because we were getting ready to go, and then I was going to ask thrower kid who his parents were but he ran off to the other area where some of the parents were so I just kind of let it be. I don't even know if any of the other parents saw it.

He was probably 5, and my big fear is that this kind of stuff is happening specifically when his parents are NOT there, and if he is allowed to be one of the kids playing alone in the playground that these types of things will keep happening, but the parents won't be terribly receptive since they don't see it themselves. This time the kids all dispersed around the time where something would have needed done, but what if it continues in the future? At what point do I ask him to stop, and if he doesn't at what point do I remove him from the area? I don't even know who his parents are or what his name is, so it might take a while to go get his parents if I have to go through the building asking "who's-the-parent-of-the-kid-with-the-red-jacket" or whatever.

Anyway, how would you all have handled this?

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I would have been SOOO mad at that kid.

That is the type of behavior that keeps him from being invited to parties and other get togethers.

Unfortunately, they are also often the kid who's parent will say "Johnny.. did you throw rocks at Mrs insertname"? Johnny says "no", and Mommy believes him, and never, ever sees him do it, and never ever believes it when all the other parents tell her the same thing. Then, school starts and the teacher has a complaint about little Johnny.. and Mommy and Daddy think it MUST be the teacher's fault.. she's not challenging him enough. Because he never does that at home.

If it's not your child that is being hurt, I would learn to ignore what the other kids are doing. It's hard at first, but I just ignore most of it now. If it doesn't hurt me, my child, or my property, I let other people's kids do what they want, because usually the parent don't care, so I don't care.

[Super~Single~Mama]

I would have told ALL the kids, no throwing things at people.

I wouldn't have made the distinction between leaves and dirt/rocks - b/c that leaves too much of a gray area.

[Kuba'sMama]

If I child acted the way you describe in a playgroup I would totally look for the parents, and I have done that in the past. Sometimes we all get caught up in conversation and it's not intentional neglect. I come up, really friendly like and say in a non-judgemental tone "Hi! There seems to be some rock/stick throwing where your son is playing and I would hate for him or someone else to get hurt. I actually got some in my face just now." Most likely the mom just didn't notice.

It's the tone of your voice that sets the stage for either friendly resolution, or mama-bear defensiveness. Something like "Hey! Your bratty kid just chucked a fistful of rocks at my face!" shouted across the yard might not do the trick.

I never hesitate to approach parents or kids at this age, especially when there are younger children playing nearby. They're too young to deal with this themselves. Most of my experiences have just been moms who got caught up in chatting, enjoying adult time and forgetting to look at their kid. Been there too.

[mama2cal&darby]

I would ask once for no throwing stones and dirt and if he did it again, I'd go find his parents.( Even if I have to shout "Who's the parent of the child with the red shirt?!?") I don't think it's up to me to discipline other people's kids, but I definitely think it's well within my rights and responsibility to let parents know if their child is being a aggressive or destructive. If I don't like how the parent deals with it (or doesn't) I can either leave or complain if someone is in charge.

[chfriend]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

I would have been SOOO mad at that kid.

Unfortunately, they are also often the kid who's parent will say "Johnny.. did you throw rocks at Mrs insertname"? Johnny says "no", and Mommy believes him, and never, ever sees him do it, and never ever believes it when all the other parents tell her the same thing. .

My experience is the opposite. In my experience, the kid that is running wild and hurting people when the parents aren't watching are the kids whose parents physically punish, give them painful or very unpleasant chores or embarrass them as punishment.

[tsfairy]

Originally Posted by chfriend

My experience is the opposite. In my experience, the kid that is running wild and hurting people when the parents aren't watching are the kids whose parents physically punish, give them painful or very unpleasant chores or embarrass them as punishment.

Or he's the kid whose parents use gentle discipline and are loving and caring but are at the end of their rope because despite all this, their kid is the one kid on the playground who always takes things too far, pushes and hits other kids, yells the loudest and gets the craziest. Parenting style can play a huge role in a kid's behavior, but personality and wiring are unique to each kid and you never know what else might be going on to cause this kind of behavior.

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Originally Posted by chfriend

My experience is the opposite. In my experience, the kid that is running wild and hurting people when the parents aren't watching are the kids whose parents physically punish, give them painful or very unpleasant chores or embarrass them as punishment.

I wonder if it's different in each area. Not just regionally, but my actual town.

Most parents here either don't discipline at all, or are generally gentle and thoughtful when they do. I don't think I know a single person who spanks or yells at their kids. (except my sister in law)

Generally the abuse you see the most around here is non parenting. Not as much physical punishment or humiliation.

Most parents fall somewhere between yelling at the kids, or ignoring the kids.

[goldingoddess]

At the point that the child threw it at your face is the point that his care-giver needs to get involved, I would have asked the group of parents if they knew or were his caregiver and relayed what happened and left it at that.

While I'm OK with someone I know taking my child and sitting down with them and giving them a stern talking to, I would have been majorly freaked out if it as someone I didn't know doing that. If I had been the caretaker, and was looking a way and not noticed the incident I would be very appreciative (and extremely embarrassed) to be notified of the situation from you so I could discipline myself.

[mamazee]

All I know is that I'd want you to seek me out if it were my kid doing it, because I'd want to know that I had misjudged my child's level of responsibility and that I needed to be closer when he was playing.

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by mamazee

All I know is that I'd want you to seek me out if it were my kid doing it, because I'd want to know that I had misjudged my child's level of responsibility and that I needed to be closer when he was playing.

[southernmommie]

I would grab that kid and go inside and start asking where this child's parent is. Then explain what happened. Then let the parent deal with it. But I would definitely have his arm in my hands around the wrist so that he would come with me and not run off. I don't care. I can't let another CHILD run around like a madman and hurt others.

*and if the parents didn't do anything about it and let him keep doing it, my family would leave the park immediately. And explain to the kids that we cannot stay where there is another kid that is going to hurt others. That way when they are at a park by themselves when older, they will leave if the same happens.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

I wonder if it's different in each area. Not just regionally, but my actual town.

Most parents here either don't discipline at all, or are generally gentle and thoughtful when they do. I don't think I know a single person who spanks or yells at their kids. (except my sister in law)

Generally the abuse you see the most around here is non parenting. Not as much physical punishment or humiliation.

Most parents fall somewhere between yelling at the kids, or ignoring the kids.

same here. 'those' kids at the park are the ones where the parents aren't paying attention or those who make excuses for their kids behaviour. Because you know, a 5 year old doens't know any better.

[Kreeblim]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

If it's not your child that is being hurt, I would learn to ignore what the other kids are doing. It's hard at first, but I just ignore most of it now. If it doesn't hurt me, my child, or my property, I let other people's kids do what they want, because usually the parent don't care, so I don't care.

I normally would, but my older two were in that group. Plus my younger kids were in the area, though not participating in the leaf tossing. I try to let kids work things out themselves, which it why these things are so difficult for me. The kid wasn't just tossing...he was throwing hard, right at faces, and it wasn't leaves.

I would have told ALL the kids, no throwing things at people.

I wouldn't have made the distinction between leaves and dirt/rocks - b/c that leaves too much of a gray area.

I thought about that, but I had two issues. Number one is that a leaf fight is something I see all the time without much problem. My initial reaction is to only get involved in the things that are actually dangerous.

My second issue is that there were a couple of parents watching from a distance while they talked. I don't think they were paying attention enough to see the kid specifically pelting people in the face (or if they did they didn't feel like it was any of their business), but I'm sure they could see the leaves in the air being tossed around and no one seemed to have a problem. So I would have basically been deciding the rules for everyone's children, even though even I didn't think leaf throwing was wrong. And that's assuming that one kid who was actually hurting people would have even cared...he certainly didn't seem to think anything I said was important, nor did he seem to have any qualms about throwing mulch, dirt and rocks into the face of a random adult while they talked to him.

I never hesitate to approach parents or kids at this age, especially when there are younger children playing nearby. They're too young to deal with this themselves. Most of my experiences have just been moms who got caught up in chatting, enjoying adult time and forgetting to look at their kid. Been there too.

I assume that's what was going on, I just wish I knew who his parents were before it happened. I still don't actually know if they were inside or outside or what his name is. I'm terrible at faces and names.

I would ask once for no throwing stones and dirt and if he did it again, I'd go find his parents.( Even if I have to shout "Who's the parent of the child with the red shirt?!?") I don't think it's up to me to discipline other people's kids, but I definitely think it's well within my rights and responsibility to let parents know if their child is being a aggressive or destructive. If I don't like how the parent deals with it (or doesn't) I can either leave or complain if someone is in charge.

This is probably close to what I'll do next time. It's hard for me not to come off like I'm attacking people though, so unless the parent sees it for themselves I always worry that it will backfire.



I'm not sure I would go much further and speculate about what type of parenting situation the kid is in, but this is a very crunchy group and I don't remember seeing any kid spanked. There are super polite kids and some really destructive ones just like in a normal playgroup. I just need to find a way to make sure my kids are able to play with their friends without having to take them to the eye doctor later because one kid thinks it's fun to baseball-pitch rocks/dirt/mulch into other kids and adults faces. I already had the "some kids are just like that" talk with them on the way home because my eldest got really really upset about the mulch being thrown at the baby. I think I'll try to make a point of learning parents names and whose kid belong to whom...that might make it easier in the future.

[chfriend]

Originally Posted by southernmommie

I would grab that kid and go inside and start asking where this child's parent is. Then explain what happened. Then let the parent deal with it. But I would definitely have his arm in my hands around the wrist so that he would come with me and not run off. I don't care. I can't let another CHILD run around like a madman and hurt others.

*and if the parents didn't do anything about it and let him keep doing it, my family would leave the park immediately. And explain to the kids that we cannot stay where there is another kid that is going to hurt others. That way when they are at a park by themselves when older, they will leave if the same happens.

I understand where you are coming from, but you really can't physically assault another person even in retaliation. You are taking a huge risk if you lay hands on a strange child.

There's nothing wrong with going to where the other parents are and saying in a loud voice: "There's a little kid out there throwing dirt in people's faces. People are getting hurt."

I can't imagine folks not going out to check on the situation regardless of their parenting style if you did that.

[prothyraia]

Originally Posted by southernmommie

I would grab that kid and go inside and start asking where this child's parent is. Then explain what happened. Then let the parent deal with it. But I would definitely have his arm in my hands around the wrist so that he would come with me and not run off. I don't care. I can't let another CHILD run around like a madman and hurt others.

I have to say that I think this is a really, really bad idea. Laying hands on another child almost always inappropriate, unless you are directly preventing them from attacking another person (and not "he's running around wild and crazy and going to be throwing stuff" attacking, but actually in the immediate process of hurting someone).

And if this child just ignored you and threw dirt in your face, most likely you will not grab their wrist and calmly walk them to their parents, you will have your hands on a child that is kicking/screaming/biting/throwing themselves on the ground/etc. And when their parent (or any other adult) sees you in that sort of physical altercation, that is going to end up as a bad, bad scene.

[Petie1104]

I have, in the past, gone over to an area in the park and asked who the parents of a child are. I usually just explain what happened and emphasize the safety issue involved. Usually the parent is appalled that their child behaved that way. Of course, I felt horrible when one father spanked his child right there, and just kind of thought to myself how that just made the situation worse.

[southernmommie]

It's not assault when you grab their wrist and walk them to the parent. No police force would dispute that.

[Minxie]

Originally Posted by southernmommie

It's not assault when you grab their wrist and walk them to the parent. No police force would dispute that.

Ummm, yeah, actually it is. When you put your hands on someone unwanted and in a manner that could reasonably be construed to cause fear in that person, it is assault.

[Kreeblim]

It's not assault when you grab their wrist and walk them to the parent. No police force would dispute that.

I'd be less concerned with the legality of it than other issues. I've cringed in publc when I saw a mother practically dragging a child by the wrist, and seeing as the kid literally threw mulch in my face when I asked him to not throw it at the other kids, I doubt it would be as easy as leading him by the wrist. I have had to pick up my 2 year old mid-tantrum and carry him facing-outward under the armpits so he couldn't kick me, but this kid was like 5 and I can't imagine having to do that to someone else's child (or to one that large!).

It also wasn't a playground...it is a playgroup with classes in a nearby building for other kids, so although there were a couple of parents in eyeshot, most were in the building, up or downstairs, in rooms, possibly even outside around the whole other side of the building. I want to say I know what I would have done had it progressed further, but I have no idea, which is why I wanted to get opinions and ideas here. I CAN say that it would be very mentally difficult for me to get to a place where I could physically carry or drag somebody else's child around a building. Maybe if the mulch had been pitched right in my baby's face instead of mine it would have felt like more of an option...though for what it's worth I don't think he missed the baby out of any actual concern for him.