Could poor sleep be more than just teething and development?

[lessmith23]

I'm just looking for some insight/advice from some other mothers with poorer sleepers.

DD is 15 months old and hasn't slept through the night since she was 4 months old. From 4 months until 1 year was pretty rough (almost every night she would wake 1/2 hour after going to sleep), 8-10 months being the absolute worst. We had a good period from 12-14 months and now we're back to it being really crappy again (waking up at the 1/2 hour mark again).

She's right on track developmentally and has 8 teeth. I was hoping nightweaning would help but she doesn't need to be nursed back to sleep at every waking so I'm not sure if it would be as affective as I had hoped.

I'm starting to suspect allergies but am feeling overwhelmed at the thought of doing an elimination diets for her and me as we're both picky eaters.

I would love to hear from any other moms who have BTDT. I'm quickly losing hope that her sleep will improve with age as it just seems to be getting worse.

[bodhitree]

I don't know how much help I can be, since my 18mo is a pretty poor sleeper. We've tried a lot of stuff, and some of it has led to a bit of improvement for at least a while, but overall she still doesn't sleep well. But I'm right with you in wondering if some sort of allergies could be at least partly to blame. I do think that if there are food allergies, you're likely to see some other signs or symptoms of them--at least I think that's what it says in one of the Sears books. For my DD, she also has eczema and chronic ear infections, so we recently eliminated dairy to see if that helps. I might try eliminating gluten too for a few weeks and see what happens.

FWIW, I do know several people who said that their awful sleepers didn't start STTN until they were two. That seems to be pretty common. So I don't know, I'm looking into the allergy stuff but I don't think the fact that a 1yo's sleep isn't improving necessarily means there are bigger problems, if you know what I mean.

[jaylily]

I wondered the exact same thing with my son, about allergies! I was finally able to night wean him and he is 2 (tried at 18 months using Jay Gordon's method - gave up - tried again a few weeks ago and it finally worked.) He still usually gets up a couple of times a night but it's not usually as bad as it used to be and no longer nurses back to sleep (usually) but still wants Daddy and does still want me.... He doesn't sleep perfectly at night but it's a lot better finally.

It can't hurt to try an elimination diet. It can just be hard, that's all. I'm still wanting to do it as I haven't been able to successfully do it for long enough just yet. From reading I've done I just know dairy and gluten seem to be a couple of the biggest culprits, so I'd start with those. From what I've read a lot of people don't even know they are intolerant or celiac as they have no obvious symptoms or think certain things are "normal" or related to something else... plus a lot of people end up feeling better once eliminating certain foods. If you are BF'ing you'd need to eliminate the same foods from your diet too since they can pass through your milk. I believe I have also read that picky eating can be a sign of allergies though I am not sure how true that is - as well, certain foods that a person finds "addictive" can be foods they are actually sensitive to.

[Carrie1105]

Your daughter sounds a lot like my 11 month old. She's always fought sleep, but STTN once I was able to get her down. Around 8 1/2 months, it all went downhill. I just got her to sleep and tried to put her in her crib, and she wakes up, screams and clutches to me. She's in our bed.

We'd rather not co-sleep just for the fact that it doesn't work for us. If she wasn't a bed-hog and well all got decent sleep, there wouldn't be a problem. If I try to keep her in her crib at night, she's up every 5-30 minutes. We don't breastfeed (milk didn't come in due to combo of PCOS/stress). My girl does have milk issues, which we discovered at 1 month after every day being just horrid. Right now, I'm on day 4 of no wheat (at this point, I'm grasping straws). That's the only other food that I can think she's having an issue with.

My girl also had 7 teeth and she is teething, working on her molars. She's been teething for over a month and we haven't seen any sight of them, although all four molar areas are swollen on various days. I've read that molars can take awhile to come in and that they can start bothering the babe weeks before they come in because they're moving up. My girl has felt every tooth.

I don't know what's going on with her. I wish I had some clue because I feel that something is wrong with her (like her first month when doctors told me she was "normal"--we had to figure out the milk issue on our own). I know she really clings to me when she's not feeling 100%. I wish I had something to offer you rather than "you're not alone."

[D_McG]

Does she seem uncomfortable when she wakes?

Do you have a partner who you can hand off nighttime parenting to and see if that helps?

Have you tried the full Jay Gordon thing where you ultimately don't comfort them when they wake?

I think it's most likely to be behavioural and I'd want to exhaust all options that target that before delving into the allergy thing.

[JuliMummy]

I would have thought that if it was due to allergies there should be some other symptoms or indications such as diarrhea, rashes, excema, asthma, lethargy. If she is generally happy and healthy and things only go pear-shaped when it comes to sleeping, it's most likely just a sleep issue. I know how you must be feeling. My 14-month-old daughter is a terrible sleeper as well. (Interestingly, she has followed a similar pattern to what you have described: things getting worse after 4 moths, 8-10 months being the most horrible, around 12 months slightly better, and now back to waking every hour or so.) And it would be kind of good to find a reason for the terrible sleeping, so that we can eliminate it, but in our case at least, we just have to accept that she is a terrible sleeper and hang in there until it eventually gets better.

Do you have any reason to suspect allergies besides poor sleep?

[lessmith23]

Thanks to everyone for all the replies!

Perhaps I'm grasping at straws with regard to the cause of poor sleep being allergies. I've never really watched what I've eaten and DD slept fine up until 4 months when she was EBF. Also, she was eating a variety of solids during the period where her sleep improved.

Originally Posted by D_McG

Does she seem uncomfortable when she wakes?

Do you have a partner who you can hand off nighttime parenting to and see if that helps?

Have you tried the full Jay Gordon thing where you ultimately don't comfort them when they wake?

Unfortunately, I don't have any help from DH due to his shift schedule but I'm willing to try the Jay Gordon method and feel like I can at least attempt to do it myself.

I'm a little confused about the method as when DD wakes, she doesn't always need to be nursed back to sleep. I can usually just lay her back down and either lay with her in bed or simply sit and rub her back.

I've been reluctant to try nightweaning as DD doesn't seem to be waking to nurse so I'm not sure it would make a difference (but perhaps I'm wrong in my thinking).

Any thoughts on this?

[Tattooed Hand]

MY DD is like yours, except we are in the total hellish sleeping phase of her waking every 30-60 minutes. Just so you know, she does have food sensitivities, but I've been on a pretty intense elimination diet since she was 4 weeks old, so it's not that. When I eat something bad she wakes up screaming in pain, develops rashes and throws up and gets the runs. It's pretty unmistakeable.

I did learn that I too am dairy and gluten intolerent and when I can start eating the other things (corn, soy, nuts), I'll stay away from those two.

[D_McG]

Well the whole idea is that you wean her from YOU at night. So you say you lay her back down, lay with her, rub her back etc. Whatever it is you would try to stop doing that. Nightweaning might help. Just anything that lessens the interaction. When I nightweaned I was careful to not replace nursing with anything. I would mutter some comfort and snuggle in. But basically I pretended to be asleep. The whole idea is that she (a) no longer wakes to interact with you and (b) if she does wake she just puts herself back to sleep.

My son woke a TON until I nightweaned him. With my daughter I was always careful with her sleep and had better luck with it. But still, she woke a few times a night until I weaned her. Now, she almost never wakes.

[sammymama]

This is the perfect thread to see right now - at 4am, that is. I am so there with you - 14 mo old DD with the exact same patterns you are all describing; I had a moment of shining hope around the 1 yr mark when I got the first (EVER) 2-3 hr stretches of sleep, but we're back to waking every 30-60 min now. I just ran down the same list of possibilities with my DH - we don't suspect allergies as she has no other symptoms. We've done a very slow introduction to new foods, and I tried a hardcore elimination diet when she was a few months old and EBF and it made no difference. She has 8 teeth and we've been guessing more on the way for quite some time now, but no sign of them yet. We have just concluded that she is "sensitive" - like the pp who said her girl feels every tooth. I have mama friends who are all, oh look at that, he got a new tooth, I didn't even know he was teething. So not our case! Same with growth spurts -t here was no mistaking what was going on with her.

I have pondered nightweaning as well, but had several LLL moms who said they did the same thing and it did not fix the nightwaking issue for their babes, rather, they were left with one less comforting tool. So I am scared to try. (I also just know it would be a nightmare-ish process, as when DD wakes and cannot nurse herself back to sleep she simply cries/screams. My only thing left then is to put her in the sling and bounce on the ball until she's deeply asleep and then try to lay back down with her in bed.) If you are not feeling comfortable nightweaning then I wouldn't try it just yet. I think you will know when you are ready to take that step...

So, no real tips from here, more a you're-not-alone post. I just keep telling myself that yes, at some point, when she's ready, DD WILL wean and sleep! Hang in there!

[lessmith23]

Originally Posted by D_McG

Well the whole idea is that you wean her from YOU at night. So you say you lay her back down, lay with her, rub her back etc. Whatever it is you would try to stop doing that. Nightweaning might help. Just anything that lessens the interaction. When I nightweaned I was careful to not replace nursing with anything. I would mutter some comfort and snuggle in. But basically I pretended to be asleep. The whole idea is that she (a) no longer wakes to interact with you and (b) if she does wake she just puts herself back to sleep..

What you're saying makes total sense. It's not the nursing she needs to get back to sleep - it's me! She does take a pacifier, do you think that's ok to still use?

So basically, when she wakes, should I still lay with her but ignore her (as in no talking, nursing etc.)? We still co-sleep as she seems to sleep longer that way but perhaps that's not helping the situation since as you said, I need to wean her from me.

[Tattooed Hand]

that would be nice, but if I pretend to be asleep DD just crawls all over me, jumps on me, pulls my hair, etc. or even worse, takes off and starts pulling on the curtains, trying to play in the dark and inevitably hurting herself.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by lessmith23

So basically, when she wakes, should I still lay with her but ignore her (as in no talking, nursing etc.)? We still co-sleep as she seems to sleep longer that way but perhaps that's not helping the situation since as you said, I need to wean her from me.

I think you could do it gradually. Soothe her with your voice, etc. Put the pacifier near her but make sure she's the one who picks it up, etc.

I was thinking about this post earlier actually. I had transferred my 2 year old from the car to a stroller (slepping). She woke up 3 times in the next 45 minutes or so (it was loud where we were). But every time she just looked around and went back to sleep. As an infant she wouldn't/couldn't have done that. She'd have needed me every time to soothe her in some way. So getting from there to here just took time and effort/encouragement. It'll work out!

Some kids do sleep better alone but I don't think you have to stop cosleeping. My DD still sleeps with me. I think it helps her.

[lessmith23]

Could poor sleep be more than just teething and development? - UPDATE

I wanted to once again thank all the moms who took the time to reply to my thread and provide an update.

About 1 week ago, after a night where DD slept ~20 minutes and then REFUSED to go back to sleep for another 2 hours, I decided that I had had enough, I'd reached my breaking point and so had DH and we felt we needed to do something as we just couldn't keep using the "wait and see" approach and hope things would improve on their own.

So after reading up on Dr. Gordon's night-weaning methods I decided to give it a go. As I said in an earlier post, DH's shift schedule prevents him from having a lot of nights home to help so I decided to go it alone. The first night was better than I anticipated. As usual DD went to sleep fairly easily and then as usual woke up at the 1/2 hour mark. This time instead of rushing to her I gave her 5 minutes. I sat outside her room with my watch and she fussed but not a big cry more pissed-off sounding. Then after about 3 minutes she was back asleep! And she subsequently slept for 7 straight hours that first night before her first waking. This pattern has continued except with less fussing and crying when she does wake. On a few nights she has woken before the 7 hours are up and I simply go in her room, lay down with her and don't' engage with her in any way. She's back to sleep in minutes.

DH and I are amazed. We've gone from 4+ wake ups (on a good night) to 2. I feel like a different person due to having a much less interrupted sleep. I also feel like DD is much less dependent on me now for sleep which is wonderful. She had a nap at my parents hours for the first time since she was a newborn. My mom just laid with her and she went right the sleep and had as long a nap as she does at home!!

Now I'm not saying that this is the magical answer for all but it was for our family. For the first time in almost a year I don't feel like a slave to DD's sleep and I can't tell you what a stress relief that is. I also think I was in the right mind-set to do it this time. I was willing to be tired in the short term to see long terms results. Previously, I just never really had my heart in any efforts to make changes.

Thanks again!

[D_McG]

wonderful!