Acceleration, Starting K Early

[mommyfied]

My DD just turned 4 and is not eligible for public school K for 2 more years. There is no doubt in my mind she will be ready for K next year. The only doubts I have are those that are put into my head by everyone I mention this to! It's all about the unknowns of middle school and high school.

I am checking in with a private school and I'm going to have her tested for early entrance. She will either start their Jr. Kindergarten or Kindergarten next year. Provided she passes the test, we also have the option of trying Jr. Kindergarten after Christmas and then continuing into K next year or not.

My question is this... for those of you who have experience dealing with schools. How do you deal with the pervasive attitude that holding kids back is always the best choice (without making them mad)? I haven't met with anyone yet, but I was already strongly discouraged by the admissions officer NOT to move her ahead. "No one ever regrets holding a child back. You're not hurting her by holding her back. You could only hurt her by moving her ahead. It's good being the oldest. What about when she is in 6th grade? What about when her friends are driving and she's not? What about her going to college at age 17?" ETC. My response was that we haven't made a decision and are still exploring our options. I've already thought about all of those factors. In fact, as a former teacher, I used to be the one making these recommendations! Also, I was one of the youngest in my class and none of these things mentioned were a factor for me. I hated not being able to drive, but that was really insignificant if compared to having to be in the class underneath me. Yawn.

Another thing I'll be dealing with, maybe, is that DD is an introverted thinker. I am an INTP usually, sometimes flipping to INFJ. She is very similar to me. The main comments we hear from teachers: "She doesn't talk." That's what teachers always said about me at parent/teacher conferences. I say, "She's probably not comfortable talking to you in front of the class. She is better one-on-one." The preschool teacher was concerned and even had the director take her into her office to talk to her, and she talked up a storm when she was in that situation. However, I'm not sure how she'll do on her testing with an unfamiliar person. Anyone have kids that ended up not testing well because of their personality?

[Bird Girl]

The "Better late than early" attitude is ascendant right now among many educators. It strikes me as somewhat faddish; who knows what they'll be saying ten years from now. What worked for our family was a small, play-based preschool that was mixed age, (3-5) for the three and four-year-old years, then half-day kindergarten at age 5. We then took our DD out in order to homeschool at her own pace. Our other options included finding a school that would accelerate her at least one grade, or perhaps taking legal action to achieve acceleration at our public school. We took the easy way out.

Most primary-grade activities at public school are not very interesting for gifted kids; most focus is on learning to read and learning to calculate at a low level. If those grades can be put off and then zipped through, your child may have a more satisfying experience. We used preschool and kindergarten as an extended playdate, and did content-based learning at home.

[pregnant@40]

I know a family w/ a gifted child that chose Montessori b/c the kid can learn at his own pace. He is very advanced in both math and reading, but the Montessori method does not hold him back in any way. He has access to all the tools he needs, while the environment is smaller and more supportive.

Maybe an option for the younger years, until she builds the confidence/skill to test into an advanced program, or even accelerated grade, at some later date?

[serenbat]

The "Better late than early" attitude is ascendant right now among many educators.

this has been in place in my area for over three decades

cut off use to be Nov, some now have it Sept!


I started my DD later, she turned 6 in kindy, as did I

personally this was far more a pain being 18 and still in school, there were only a hand full of us that had late year birthdays so the majority was not effected

I do know a child that started early and had problems, so it can go both ways

in my area most school, private or public are very strong in not sending early- I would weigh the educational with the maturity level and how the social interaction skills are- if the school does have a negative attitude towards early that might reflect a bias towards her by some

grade skipping (in my area) is very heavy on the maturity level more so than simply the ed level

[whatsnextmom]

What I would consider is whether going to K next year is in the best interest of your DD being who she is. She may benefit from another year at home. I'm not suggesting she's immature or not capable. I'm just saying this as a mother of another introvert who while ended up doing a mid-year skip to first, does not at all regret that year we had before kindie started at all! I'm just saying, it might be in her best interest to do very little preschool next year, explore her own interests, start kindie on schedule and deal with a skip once in the system and they know her.

If you feel next year is crucial, how the school reactes will depend on the district. Ours is very flexible. I never heard any nay-saying from the staff. Some parents butted in but all it took was DD's success to shut them up. I reccomend going in positive and stressing the emotional welfare of your child over the academic one.

[MJB]

My son started K early this year (he will be 5 in December, cutoff is Oct. 1). His preschool teacher encouraged us to put him in K early and wrote a very strong recommendation. He had the same teacher for 2 years (2 half days at "3" and 3 half days at "4") and she has been one of his biggest supporters.
10 weeks into kindergarten he is doing great; he is socially and behaviorally well-adjusted and still very advanced academically. We have started discussing a future grade skip, but will keep him where he is at least for the rest of K for the experience. 1/4 of his class is already 6 and the rest are 5 (more older 5s than young 5s). There is a JK at his school that many 5 yr. olds go to.
If your daughter is in preschool, what does her teacher think? I really think that holds a lot of weight with schools. If she's not, the evaluators are used to dealing with shy preschoolers and if she's really ready for K, I think they'll be able to see that. Starting JK this year sounds like a good idea.

[VisionaryMom]

About 18 months ago, we spoke to an educational specialist about DS. Obviously we didn't figure everything out, but we're not sure what's going on with school! He advised us in our state that early entrance to K probably wasn't the hill to die on. I already knew it was next to impossible, but he said he'd seen profoundly gifted children denied early entrance. Our better option, according to him, would be to put DS in school at the appropriate time & then push grade skipping if it looked like he needed it. Once you're in the system, it's harder to put you off!

Now that I see how much K takes from DS emotionally and physically, I agree. He wouldn't have had the stamina for this much focus a year ago, and I think it would have been disastrous. That may be what folks are telling you when they talk about not doing early entrance.

Serenbat, the cut-off for K was Sept 1 in my district growing up, and 6 is the standard age to turn during the K year in most of the U.S. I don't think those are new phenomena. It's more waiting until a child already is 6 to do K that I think is the trendy thing in many areas. (I also see this trend in other areas. Many parents hold their kids back in soccer, which both of my kids play, and then marvel that they're "the best on the team." Yes, that's why they belong in the higher age league. I think it just makes some parents feel better that their kid is "the best.")

[ASusan]

I'm watching this thread with interest, because we may very well be in your position in a year from now when DS turns 4.

I just can't see him having *3* more years at his daycare/preschool.

We will likely do testing for early entrance to K, either public or the local Catholic school. Montessori would be LOVELY, but we don't have a "true" montessori locally.

Of course, if we think DS isn't ready, or he doesn't test as ready, we will go ahead with the regular K entrance. In which case, he will turn 6 a few weeks after the school year starts.

[pregnant@40]

I've been thinking about this, and just want to add that the biggest challenges in kindergarten are the social and stamina aspects, as another parent mentioned. It's not really about academics. The social scene is already so nuanced, which really surprised me (peer pressure & social hierarchy starts so early!). So I could see how a bright, academically gifted kid at 4 may be absolutely miserable in kindergarten, since they may not have the same emotional development or social skills. It may not be the best arena to let your kid shine & show what she can do, and perhaps would impair her confidence somewhat at the start. No one wants to be the "little kid". I can imagine that waiting until a later entry point to do testing and such would be much more beneficial. An ideal situation would be one that allowed tremendous academic growth and exposure, but I don't think that public school kindergarten fits that bill.

Even for my typically developing son (who is smart, but not advanced), I feel like this year is mostly one of social and institutional adjustment. There is a daily focus on academics, but it's not really challenging. It's really just average, so that the school can reach more kids (ie. lots of kids enter K w/out any letter or number recognition!). It may be a waste of time somewhat from that perspective, but the friendship building, learning how to follow social/classroom rules, and developing homework habits are also important. I'm OK with giving my son more time to grow as a kid before the real academics kick in, but some kids or parents may need more. I think my kid's class is pretty typical, so do you really believe this would benefit your child right now?

But this is all generalization, only you know your kid. Though I know a mom who regretted her decision to enroll her daughter early (even though she tested into it w/ flying colors), obviously some families have a different experience.

[mommyfied]

To clarify, I was wondering how to handle the topic gently with the principal to help persuade her that it isn't *always* best to hold a child back. I was thinking people may have been in that position before. I don't want to say the wrong things and make her feel like I'm stepping on her toes, but on the other hand, I want to stand up for my daughter. So far, I've only spoken to the admissions officer on the phone. We would need to go do the screening and officially apply before meeting the principal. The other people who have encouraged me to wait are also people who do not know her. Everyone else falls back on the "you don't want them to grow up too fast" line.

She is already in preschool full time and does well. She is not at home. Also, I taught kindergarten so I have a pretty good frame of reference about her abilities and how she compares with others socially, academically, and physically. However, I mention the introvert part because she is quiet and it takes longer for teachers to get to know her. She doesn't scream "I'm gifted!" like some kids do and I don't know if she'll test well. Maybe she will... ?? Another year isn't going to change her personality. That said, I haven't made up my mind about sending her early. Maybe what's bothering me is that she is a little sponge and we are stuck in limbo for 2 years if we wait to go to public school. There aren't many options around here for preschool. Most are run by a director who may or may not be a degreed teacher and are staffed by people who simply love kids. In her current class (3-4 year olds) she is the oldest and they are learning their letters, numbers, and shapes - things she has known since she was 18 mo old. The next class takes it a step further, but when I asked about reading/writing, the director said she doesn't want them to be bored in kindergarten. I go back and forth on whether or not she even needs to be there but she likes to go play with her friends. (Plus I work at home and it helps to have her at school when the little ones are sleeping.) At a previous preschool they were grouped differently and she had friends older than her. I think she does better in that situation. I've also weighed homeschooling, but I don't think it's the right fit for her (not to mention trying to work at home and take care of the little ones).

[pregnant@40]

As a former K teacher, you probably have the best idea of how to approach the principal. Also, she/he may put more weight into your assessment of your daughter due to your professional background; you probably already know which kind of questions to prepare for, and understand the types of concerns your principal may have. If you have no other options for your daughter & feel that she is truly ready for K on all levels, call the school & make an appt to advocate for your child! Good luck.

[mommyfied]

The problem is that as a teacher, I was the one making the same recommendations to people! We are brainwashed into thinking age grouping is best. The other side of the coin is new to me. The only thing I know to do right now is re-read A Nation Deceived to stimluate some thoughts.

[jillmamma]

2 of my neighbors have DDs that barelly missed the 9/1 cutoff here (b-days of 9/2 and 9/4). Both girls were clearly ready for K at turning 5. What they did was enroll the child in private school for K and 1st, and then moved to public at second grade. Both girls seemed to handle the transition just fine as well.

[Petie1104]

I'm dealing with this from two different angles. My parents paid for my kindy because I could already read at 4 yrs. old. So they started me early. I did fine. I had one incident, when I went to my first day of first grade and the kids were all lined up outside the class and a little boy asked me how old I was (this tells you how bad this was for me I still remember it). I told him I was 5 and he starts telling me, "you aren't allowed in 1st grade, it's for big kids, you have to be 6 to be in this line. You need to go over to the baby line for kindergarten" OK, so I started crying, at which point my first grade teacher came over and told me that the boy had no clue what he was saying and reassured me that I was in the correct class. That's it, my one traumatic episode about being the youngest in my class.

OK, now the other side. DS was also reading by age four but I followed what the school system said, and they said his birthday was too late and he needed to wait a year. Well, I hate to say it but a kid is NOT going to stop learning or reading just because the government says they are too young to do it. So, over the next year he began reading more and more until by the time he was "ready" for school, he was reading at a 4th grade level. Since I wasn't teaching him anything else, he just kept reading through our library. I do have to admit, I taught him how to use the dictionary because he was getting tired of asking me what words like "melancholy" meant, but that was it, I was determined not to start teaching him or he would just be further ahead. So, well, the fact that he read enough to learn that the earth was round, 70% water and guess what so is the human body, well that's not "REALLY" learning, is it. LOL At any rate, we started him in kindy, and his teacher called me and asked me if I could send him books from home, so that he could keep busy. Then first grade same scenario. Sending books from home, the librarian told me that the school policy was that first graders had to stay in the first through third grade section so she would sneak him books from the junior high section that were age appropriate content, which was hard to judge when he came up and started telling her about how Pluto had been demoted and was now no longer a full fledged planet, and then explained to her about the difference between the neolithic and paleolithic era (OK he'd laugh if he read this because I really have no clue about the eras back then). At any rate, 2nd grade went much the same until I pulled him out to homeschool. Now, we are moving to AZ in a couple weeks and I am going to LIE LIE LIE whatever it takes to get him moved up to 4th grade instead of making him spend another year too far ahead. The boy knows long division, understands fractions and their relationship to decimals, knows his conversions for feet to meters and well, any other tidbit of information he can find.

So, the point is, he was MISERABLE and completely BORED in school because he was too far ahead and the school wouldn't even consider skipping him a grade until he stayed with HIS class for the state tests. Yeah, I'm sure they were only thinking of HIS best interests (ok that's sarcasm.) I have since learned that this school is famous for holding advanced children back so that they raise the overall scores of their class, giving the school higher marks than the surrounding schools. All the while, they refused special needs services to my daughter insisting that phonics were "not as important as a parent might be led to believe" and that memorizing books was "proven a just as effective method of learning reading as a phonics based program." WHAT!!! OK, so enough venting, I hope this helps with your decision. If your daughter is ready, then I say go for it. Better to be the youngest, then to be the oldest and way too far ahead of the other kids.

[serenbat]

I wanted to add---

as was said, your child won't stop learning just because they are not in the K program yet and most times even if you are at a GREAT school with a perfect fit you still might not get that your child needs and you will need to do the work with your child anyways

as far as being early for things- to me the social ability will play far more into in the long run, K and even up to 5 (sometimes you even know earlier than that) that no matter how advance/gifted if they lack the social ability skipping grade doesn't help

personally waiting (I was 5 in K and turned 6 early) and that has many draw backs too-you are in the minority since most children are born in the spring and summer, I was only one of 5 out of 116 that had a birthday before Feb. -later years in a traditional setting it has drawbacks

and don't think too far ahead, when you see college at 17 and wonder HOW and suddenly you are dealing with it at 14 - the social skills are the big factor, at least the were for my DD

she did have problems because many of her friends, while advance and or gifted did not meet her on her social level and suddenly she had more in common with 18+ year olds


we started DD in a private Kindy (at age 5 and turned 6 in Nov) the school came highly recommended and it was awful! 1st at another private school was out of this world and 2nd we get the teacher we dreamed of only to have her leave two weeks prior to the start of school-it turned into H*LL! and we pulled out and home-schooled, we did testing at that point (with a good idea where we were at) and the local public school could not handle her- and could not offer her anything until 6th grade, she was at 8th grade for most subject at this point----so what you think you need and what really happens can be far different in the long run

and as was said- schools and states have "funny" rules- HSers in PA add mega points to the PS test grades, so do little smarties add to their grade and depending on the school they may go along with early placement if they know what your child will give them

[mom2ponygirl]

Originally Posted by mommyfied

To clarify, I was wondering how to handle the topic gently with the principal to help persuade her that it isn't *always* best to hold a child back. <snip> I've also weighed homeschooling, but I don't think it's the right fit for her (not to mention trying to work at home and take care of the little ones).

I think I would never use the term acceleration with the principal. I would discuss appropriate academic and social fit. I know my daughter always had an easier time fitting in with the older kids and shared more interests with them than her age mates. When given the lame arguments about early college, I would simply say that you know of many gap year opportunities if she doesn't seem ready to go at that time.

That said, we did try to argue that our profoundly gifted daughter be allowed into 1st instead of K with a birthdate only 10 days past the cut-off. We ended up homeschooling! LOL She had gone to Montessori for preschool and K full-days. As an introvert she has found homeschooling to be great. She finds it much easier to be social when she has sufficient time to recharge between social engagements. She did try school last year by attending high school half-time. She was 10 turning 11 when she started. She did fine academically, socially fit in at school, and made several casual friends. However, she discovered how much she really enjoyed homeschooling so we are back full time with that now.

[mommyfied]

Originally Posted by mom2ponygirl

I think I would never use the term acceleration with the principal. I would discuss appropriate academic and social fit. I know my daughter always had an easier time fitting in with the older kids and shared more interests with them than her age mates. When given the lame arguments about early college, I would simply say that you know of many gap year opportunities if she doesn't seem ready to go at that time.

Thank you - good points. I have noticed she does do well with older kids. In fact, she seems to have regressed with the less mature kids that she is with now. I can look back and see myself doing the same thing.

In the end, we're only talking about a month or two difference between her and the next youngest kid in the class unless this particular class has a lot of early birthdays. I'll be sure to ask about that. DS will only be 2 months older than her when HE starts kindergarten.

[whatsnextmom]

I was thinking people may have been in that position before.

I have. Like I said, I wasn't trying to tell you that early enterance was wrong... only that it's not neccessarily the right choice. I say this as a parent whose DD was reading novels in preschool and studying Egypt. Of course she could have handled kindergarten at 4 (my youngest started at 4 and he wasn't nearly advanced.) Personally, that year before kindie was so wonderful for us and I'm grateful DD had the extra year before having to adapt to the system as really, she was too advanced for kindie even the year earlier but also would have taken to not fitting much, much harder at 4 than when she started at 5. I'm just saying you might want to really look at this kindie program and see what it is they are going to give her outside more stringent curriculum and schedule.

Have you looked to see if your district has an EAK (early attendance kindergarten.) This program is meant for older preschoolers ready to start kindie but miss the cut-off. They start in January and finish off the year. Typically they go to regular kindie in the fall but it's not been unheard of in our district for kindies to "prove" themselves in EAK and move to 1st grade in the fall.

Another year isn't going to change her personality.

No, another year won't change her personality but another year will change how she manages it. I know that my DD's privacy needs are pretty much the same as a teenager as they were when she was a tot. However, when she was little, it could be problematic. As she aged she was able to delay that need when neccessary, become savvy enough to know when more peace would come from speaking than remaining silent and so on. Kindie is tough for kids who don't speak. It just is.

[mommyfied]

Thanks for your input, everyone. I agree with you, whatsnext. I definitely haven't made up my mind yet. I just don't want the idea of her starting K early to be automatically shut down by the school because it's perceived that no one ever regrets holding a child back. I know that's simply not true, but I'm contemplating how I address it. I guess I don't really need to address it and just focus on my DD.

In public schools, kindergarten is funded by districts rather than the state and they can't afford to take in kids any earlier. Grade skipping is very, very rare in this area too (go back to the list of reasons given to me by the admissions officer - it's just the mindset), but I don't see that being a good option for her anyway.

Re: the fact that they won't stop learning if they stay out of K another year. That is so true. That reminds me of another comment... the woman I talked to assumed I worked with DD a lot and explained that I actually haven't... she figures things out on her own. She said it's good that I haven't worked with her because then she would be so far above everyone else when she starts that I wouldn't know what to do with her. It reminds me of the "we don't want them to be bored in K" comment I got from her preschool. She's going to be there no matter what I do, even if we start early.

Petie - I hope the school environment in AZ is better for your son!

[RiverTam]

Originally Posted by mommyfied

What about her going to college at age 17?" ETC.

I've got a grade skipper and my answer to this is that if he needs to take a gap year, he can take a gap year. A year of working and taking a class or two at the community college or backpacking around Europe or volunteering somewhere or doing an internship or attending a prep school for a year really isn't going to hurt anyone.

I had a good friend in college who started at 17. He had to wait longer to buy beer, but that was the only thing anyone noticed. ("Don't send Gary to the store. He can't buy the beer!")