Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Special Needs Parenting › Psychiatrist wants to Psych Hold a 6yr old.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Psychiatrist wants to Psych Hold a 6yr old.

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I have a friend (seriously- not my kid's here) and she's got 2 boys DS1 is 9(he has depression an anxiety takes anti-dipressents and is living quite normally) and DS2 just turned 6. She has been through the ringer trying to get her son the help he needs, and will have some success for a small amount of time- then he will regress. They (doc's in idaho) were saying DS2 had Aspergers- then they said that he did not have that and was only depressed with language delay/issues. SHE (mom) Has not posted here, and she's not that....computer literate or comfortable writing a thread like this. I have her permission, and pleading to post this here with list of symptoms. This is her account of DS2's behavior.

*Has violent outbursts:...hitting... bitting... kicking.... cursing....scratching...threatens to kill....wants to make people bleed, and cry

*He gets set off by hunger, lack of sleep, not getting his way at the moment, some times small things set him off all day, sometimes it takes full day events to set him off, too much social interaction can set him off, embrassed easy,

*Just about every day he has episodes just to get him to school. they have people waiting each morning to restrain him so i can leave. they also get punched hit bit scratched ect.

*Have to restrain him anywhere from 20 min to 45 min,
if not restained episode can last up to two hours with him going for anything he can brake or throw at me, he will try to attack luke and anyone around even is he doesnt know them but feels like they are watching him.

*High sensory issues, gags at tastes, smells, and sights, depression, doesn't sleep through the night has to take sleep aids, pees the bed, pees himself during the day,

*Doesn't have bowel movements but every 2-4 weeks, has no control over when and where the bowel movements happen, its usually the size of an adults shoe, i think this is do to him "holding it in" during potty training, just got him potty trained almost a year ago due to his mental state, eats very little frequently due to stomach ache cause by lack of bowel movements

*Has obessions over Hot Wheels Cars, Coloring and Plastic Army Men,
spends most of his time playing alone with these objects (lines them up, freaks if they are moved by others without his consent) use to carry a back pack everywhere full of special toys that nobody can touch,

*Excited about playdates but can't contain his anxitey over the situation, and would rather either play by himself or go home, can't handle others kids in the hyper state, the school works with him and his social anxiety, instead of recess he has other activitys,

The doctors in her area (middle of Nevada) are saying that this child needs to be admitted into the psychiatric ward in Reno, NV. They are saying that she isn't going to have a "choice" about weather or not to admit him- or plans for removing him after he's been admitted. They are aso saying that if she does not admit him, then they (the dr's office) will "be forced" to report to CPS that this 6yr old is dangerous, and have him removed that way. I'm at a loss here Mighty Mama's. My gut tells me that admitting him (i'm from this area btw) to that hospital is a BAD idea. I think that the school is not helping (he has an IEP and full time aide) but she is firm that they are helping. Looking at his list- What would you do? Where would you go from here? What would you do or suggest that she do??

Thanks for reading and helping. Also- thanks for any input!
post #2 of 22
IDK what her insurance limitations are and Im guessing that is part of the problem?
I would get a developmental pedicatric work up (this is different than a reg ped appt)
I would get a new psychatrist
I would a pediatric counselor
I would start family therapy
I would try for 'brain mapping' if at all possible (google this)
Does the child have developmental delays or only the behavior issues mentioned?

Is the child on any medication for DX?
Are there possible food allergies?
Has there been a life event? (parent leaving, family move etc)

At this point im not sure I would go for the inpatient unit. I would be searching for an outside team approach though. I would also reconsider school for now. School does not seem to be a good fit the way things are. Either homeschool in some format or take some time to really focus on getting the entire family healthy and well before tackling academics.
post #3 of 22
I don't really have any advice, but I saw this thread in "new posts" and also saw another similar long thread in "new posts" and thought I'd point you in that direction. The folks on that thread might have some advice:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...137864&page=17

best of luck!
post #4 of 22

not sure

this sounds like a very difficult situation! I am intuitively against hospitalizing a 6 year old in some sort of facility.

Sounds like the school situation is NOT working, in this case, homeschool or any other alternative would be very useful. Ideas for new doctor, new psychiatrist, second opinion defnitely needed.

The bowel thing, sounds like something which needs to be tackled immediately, through some sort of alternative medicine - something is very wrong in the gut - though i am not trained at all, I would say consult a naturopathic or acupuncturist - something as simple as taking acidophilis, drinking kefir or kombucha and loading on fiber foods seems like it is defnitely needed. I feel like the key to the behaviors is in the gut and getting the correct foods needed to balance the body and have regular movements.. The bowel thing is almost of an emergency situation and the diet needs to be examined, immediately.... that's my intuition, not any formal "medical" training.... but there has been alot of research with diet, casein gluten free etc helping with those types of behavior symptoms in kids ...

best of luck - this is a difficult road.. the answer is not in an institution, get rid of this doctor and take a long break from the school...
post #5 of 22




If that was my child, i would have them admitted. The child is a danger to everyone around him. It's not helping anyone to not have him admitted to figure out what is really going on with him.


post #6 of 22
If they admit him to a pediatric facility it might help him. The staff there are good at providing structure and routine which can help in this situation. It also provides a safe environment for the child to be diagnosed.

However, I would never agree to an admission without a second opinion. I would find another psychiatrist (not associated with the 1st one) ASAP. Your friend should also keep in mind that a person can be committed against their (or their guardians wishes) if they are a danger to theirselves or others (suicidal/homicidal). Once committed, they can be forced to stay until they are no longer a danger.

Since some docs are quick to call CPS, I would advise your friend to quickly start finding another doc to eval her child, and to advise her child's psych that she is seeking another opinion.
post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
We are NOT talking about a Pediatric Facility If that was the case I would have agreed with the doc's more than likely. I am totally in agreement with the bowel issues- something I knew nothing about till I begged her to let me post something here.

Thanks so far for all you ideas and support.
post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by yarngoddess View Post
We are NOT talking about a Pediatric Facility If that was the case I would have agreed with the doc's more than likely. I am totally in agreement with the bowel issues- something I knew nothing about till I begged her to let me post something here.

Thanks so far for all you ideas and support.
I'm not an expert in any of this, but I have a friend who has dealt with "encopresis" with her daughter. Google it...it sounds just like the stool holding you're describing.
post #9 of 22
OK so here is the deal. I was threatened with that as well, but our psych was willing to work with us. Here is kind of what we did...

We assured the psych that we would not leave dd alone with any of the kids or animals.

I dropped out of college so that I could stay home with her and pulled her from school to homeschool her.

We had to assure psych that either myself, my dh, or my brother (who was active in her care at that time) would be with her constantly.

We doubled up on therapy sessions for a while.

She had already been to a developmental specialist and was diagnosed as having asperger's and she sounds almost exactly like your friend's son, not that he will get the same dx, but having an accurate dx is the most important measure to take, so a developmental specialist is a must.

We started a journal to keep track of when her behavior was good and bad, her diet for the day, her sleeping schedule for the day, and the specific incidents necessary.

DH, myself and my brother were all trained in how to hold her and handle her episodes (which should be done one on one if possible with someone there to help only when necessary).

We were lucky in that her psych was willing to work on a plan with us as opposed to just institutionalizing her. So if your friend's psych isn't willing to work with her, I would highly suggest she find someone who is so that at least if CPS is called she has a second opinion to offer them. Our lives had to change drastically and this was not easy at all. With that said, it has paid off. DD is now medication free and rarely (meaning only once or twice a week) has an episode, and hasn't has a major one (injuring and attacking others) in quite a while.
post #10 of 22
What types of Drs has she been to? The symptoms you describe sound more like something I would take a child to see a developmental pediatrician or a pediatric neurologist about, not a psychiatrist first. Possibly even a geneticist since the older brother also has symptoms though less severe.

Is the child in a special ed class or is he mainstreamed? Does he receive any services at school?
post #11 of 22
I would NOT have him admitted.
I'd find a developmental pediatrician. I LOVE my son's DAN doctor, but the DAN methods don't work for everyone .
I'd try going casein-free for at least a few weeks, and note any changes.
I'd then try going gluten-free as well, and note any changes.
I'd consider supplements, such as: fish oil, GABA, magnesium.
I'd look into options for occupational therapy.

I'd try these methods before resorting to any prescription meds.
I would hide my child from the authorities and do whatever else necessary to keep my young child out of a psych institution. And I say that as someone who was admitted into one as a teenager, twice. More bad than good, in my experience, and should only be used as an absolute last resort. They're not even close to that yet.

My older son has high-functioning autism. He was violent and angry and anxious, and had frequent meltdowns. That all changed with supplements and dietary changes and occupational therapy.

Good luck to your friend and her family!
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
And I say that as someone who was admitted into one as a teenager, twice. More bad than good, in my experience, and should only be used as an absolute last resort. They're not even close to that yet.
This is why my dd's therapist wanted to keep her out of there. She said that the kid's that she treated in the psych hospital actually came out worse, simply because they learned new worse behaviors in the facility. She said, some come out better but it is most definately something that should only be used as a last resort, and even then it should be as temporary as possible.
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepster View Post
What types of Drs has she been to?
I'm curious about this as well. What kind of evals has this child had? Who did them? Who said Asperger's?

Some of the traits are aspergery, but some just aren't. The most serious ones aren't.

And Asperger's specifically states "no language delays."
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
I'm curious about this as well. What kind of evals has this child had? Who did them? Who said Asperger's?

Some of the traits are aspergery, but some just aren't. The most serious ones aren't.

And Asperger's specifically states "no language delays."
My son has numerous Asperger's symptoms, but had a language "delay" (actually, language loss) and violent behaviors. His diagnosis is high-functioning autism. It's hard for some people to find the place on the spectrum where a child fits. I'd disagree with an Asperger's diagnosis from what I read here, but wouldn't be surprised if this child was on the autism spectrum.
post #15 of 22
Safety is always first, so if there is an issue of the child being seriously self harming, or a serious threat to others, that's at the top of what needs to be attended to. I don't know from the post what the thoughts are about how this issue is playing out, but my guess is that it's at the top of why a psych admit is on the table.

If I were in your friend's shoes, I would pre-empt what's going on and get a second opinion from another child psych, specifically looking at the danger issues. If the facility that the child would potentially be admitted to is not appropriate, ie not a pedi floor or pedi facility, find one that is, and preferably one w/a partial hospitilization or day treatment program. That can either work as an alternative to try before hospitilization, or work as a therapeutic option after hospitilization. I can't stress strongly enough that if things are falling apart, make a plan for it. Look for the right facility, if you can, have a plan for the "crisis" that might occur-whatever that might look like, know the parameters of what's safe or not safe for the child and others, etc.

Hospitilization can be a trauma in an of itself. Sometimes it is absolutely necessary though, and can help stabilize a really difficult situation. I have sometimes seen that although everyone tries to avoid the crisis of hospitilization, sometimes it is what's needed at the moment. I don't know specifically about the situation you described OP, but the docs are probably looking at it from a triage model--what absolutely has to be dealt with immediately in order for the child to remain safe. I really feel for the family.
post #16 of 22
She can also delay the doctor by insisting that she will only consider a facility that has a separate pediatric ward (locked and separated from adults & adolescents). That should be a primary safety factor. She can also call her local branch of MHMRA and ask for assistance in locating another facility and another provider. They will also be able to help with counseling services.

Also, she should start a paper trail. A list of doctors, agencies, and therapists that she has contacted, with the dates times and summaries of the conversations. If CPS is called, she can state that she feels she needs a second opinion since the facility does not specialize in small children and she feels that could be detrimental. If she can show she is working to get the child help, she can not be prosecuted for medical neglect.

It also can be a long wait for specialist visits, so I would suggest a general pediatrician visit. It will go a long way to establish that a second opinion is being sought out. Meanwhile, I would agree with the PP and ensure the child is separated from animals and young children, and always accompanied by an adult that is train in restraint and aware of the situation.
post #17 of 22
So I know nothing about ASD's or mental illnesses, but the thing about the bowels caught my eye. My kid has the opposite problem (constant diarrhea) but when he's having a flare up, he gets violent, hyper, his sensory issues come up big time until we take away the thing that caused the flare up (for him, we think it's gluten, dairy and sugar? going to see a Ped GI soon.) He still isn't potty trained (age 3.5) because he doesn't have any control over his bladder or bowels.

Is he malnurished? That would be something to look in to along with everything else suggested.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladytigerfairy View Post
The bowel thing, sounds like something which needs to be tackled immediately, through some sort of alternative medicine - something is very wrong in the gut - though i am not trained at all, I would say consult a naturopathic or acupuncturist - something as simple as taking acidophilis, drinking kefir or kombucha and loading on fiber foods seems like it is defnitely needed. I feel like the key to the behaviors is in the gut and getting the correct foods needed to balance the body and have regular movements.. The bowel thing is almost of an emergency situation and the diet needs to be examined, immediately.... that's my intuition, not any formal "medical" training.... but there has been alot of research with diet, casein gluten free etc helping with those types of behavior symptoms in kids ...

best of luck - this is a difficult road.. the answer is not in an institution, get rid of this doctor and take a long break from the school...
I fully agree with addressing his diet. I know that's not usually the first thing that people think of with behavior problems, but I can tell you without a doubt it can make a WORLD of difference if there are undiagnosed food allergies or intolerances (which can also lead to nutritional deficiencies, which cause problems of their own.) My DD is a completely different child when she has certain foods that she's allergic to. Some foods give the obvious symptoms- hives, eczema, diarrhea, ect. But some of her trigger foods cause only behavioral changes. She becomes overly sensitive, aggressive, harming herself and others around her. She can't sleep. She can't focus. She gets so hyper she's almost twitchy. And she's only 3. I can't imagine what she would be like by age 6 if I hadn't figured out her food allergies (well, we're still figuring some of them out...)

So for me, personally, if I was being threatened with having my child taken way and being locked in a psych ward, I would immediately take these things out of his diet and see what changes (while keeping a detailed food journal):
- dairy
- gluten
- soy
- food colorings, additives, preservatives, etc. (pretty much anything that comes in a box)
- refined sugar (also easy to avoid if you don't eat packaged foods)
post #19 of 22
Man, I want to smack that doctor. The worse possible thing that could be done in this situation is set up an "us against them" relationship between the medical staff and the parents. Idiots.

Mom should get a second opinion. If she can't get in to see another psychiatrist, (I know it's tough) she should go see her pediatrician and ask what the pediatrician thinks.
post #20 of 22
I was thinking more about this...

Is there a calm period for about 12 to 24 hours right after he has his bowel movement?

If DS is in a place where he is uncomfortable having a bowel movement he will hold it till he gets home. During this time, DS often acts out violently. A little over a month ago, DS was acting horrible in the car and hit my sister, who was sitting next to him, repeatedly, and even grab her earing. After dropping him at home with DH I said to my sister, I think he needs to poop. When I get to dad's house with my sister, I call DH to see how things went, and DH reports that as soon as they got into the house DS headed straight to the bathroom.

The extended bowel holding could be a huge factor here. It will make the child very uncomfortable and antsy, but also it makes him less likely to eat enough to keep his blood sugar levels even.

Psychiatrist often ignore, that many mental symptoms are actually caused by physical conditions. I spent years getting the run around with psychiatrist for my depression, but as soon as I had my thyroid condition treated, it went away instantly.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Special Needs Parenting
Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Special Needs Parenting › Psychiatrist wants to Psych Hold a 6yr old.