Would you cut out a close family member for circ'ing? - Page 3

[Tiana]

I could save myself a lot of typing time in these sorts of threads if I just follow Galatea around with a sign. Wonderful, wonderful post, Galatea! I completely agree.

I'm somewhere between 3 and 4, as well. Probably a little closer to 3 than 4, but I'm working on it. My husband is at 2. He doesn't get why this is such a big 'thing' for me.

[SubliminalDarkness]

Originally Posted by A&A

Profound grief.

I guess I just can't understand this. I would grieve far more for the loss of my sister, BIL, and nephew than I would the nephew's foreskin alone.

[Jenivere]

I have two SIL's expecting boys in the next two months and I've recently written to them about why we chose not to do it and I included references for them to educate themselves with. I am praying that it will make a difference because the thought just makes me sick but I will not cut them out of my life if they choose to do so. I admit I will loose some respect for them and probably will withdraw some myself but this is my husband's little sister and his brother's wife and I have no plans to cut ties with them.

[AFWife]

This has been a hard thread to read...and I'm going to speak up from the other side sort of.

I was an MDC member a few months after I found out I was pregnant. This was before we found out what we were having. I saw this forum and, honestly, rolled my eyes a bit (not trying to be mean, just honest) because circ wasn't something that ever crossed my mind as an issue. I couldn't understand why everyone was making such a big deal out of something so small. I read around when I got bored (and my last tri that was a lot) but never once thought to change my mind. I never brought it up with DH or anyone else past "there are some people that are vehemently opposed to circ, and I just don't understand it." There were/are a lot of STRONG feelings about things on MDC...BFing, RFing, vaxing, etc...so I just put circ in the same "folder" in my head and moved on.

Basically, I WAS fully informed.

And then DS got circ'd. All the hormones and whatnot took over when I changed his gauze and for those first few weeks when he would cry with each diaper change. I was confused. I would read threads on here and see people say things like "mutilation" and "abuse" and feel hated for a decision that I thought had been made in my son's best interest. The way I felt about this forum was the same as when a friend told me that BFing was "disgusting." I tried to put it out of my mind but once I got pregnant again the thought of doing it again made me emotionally distraught. For the first few months of this pregnancy I tried to work through it so I would be okay with circ. It wasn't until I realized that I couldn't that I even considered the other way and started to fight with DH about it. (I'm sure most of you remember my threads on the subject)


If I'd lost friends or FAMILY over it I probably wouldn't have come to the conclusion to not circ my next boy. Seriously. It was the LOVE from the people here when I was curious that made me consider the other side.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by SubliminalDarkness

I guess I just can't understand this. I would grieve far more for the loss of my sister, BIL, and nephew than I would the nephew's foreskin alone.

That's like saying "just an eyelid" or "just the tip of the ear" or "just a little toe," if it were part of our culture to cut those body parts off.

To me, it's more than just the body part affected; it's about bodily integrity.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

- and, I would guess that most of those truly wouldn't be doing so mainly b/c of the circ issue. It's likely the relationship was already strained.
.

I was very close to my brother and sister-in-law before they cut the genitalia of their newborn.

I seriously distanced myself from them over the circumcision issue, really and truly. So your theory doesn't hold true for everyone.

[DocMom]

Originally Posted by AFWife

This has been a hard thread to read...and I'm going to speak up from the other side sort of.

I was an MDC member a few months after I found out I was pregnant. This was before we found out what we were having. I saw this forum and, honestly, rolled my eyes a bit (not trying to be mean, just honest) because circ wasn't something that ever crossed my mind as an issue. I couldn't understand why everyone was making such a big deal out of something so small. I read around when I got bored (and my last tri that was a lot) but never once thought to change my mind. I never brought it up with DH or anyone else past "there are some people that are vehemently opposed to circ, and I just don't understand it." There were/are a lot of STRONG feelings about things on MDC...BFing, RFing, vaxing, etc...so I just put circ in the same "folder" in my head and moved on.

Basically, I WAS fully informed.

And then DS got circ'd. All the hormones and whatnot took over when I changed his gauze and for those first few weeks when he would cry with each diaper change. I was confused. I would read threads on here and see people say things like "mutilation" and "abuse" and feel hated for a decision that I thought had been made in my son's best interest. The way I felt about this forum was the same as when a friend told me that BFing was "disgusting." I tried to put it out of my mind but once I got pregnant again the thought of doing it again made me emotionally distraught. For the first few months of this pregnancy I tried to work through it so I would be okay with circ. It wasn't until I realized that I couldn't that I even considered the other way and started to fight with DH about it. (I'm sure most of you remember my threads on the subject)


If I'd lost friends or FAMILY over it I probably wouldn't have come to the conclusion to not circ my next boy. Seriously. It was the LOVE from the people here when I was curious that made me consider the other side.

I am right here with you.
I am coming from a medical background and very naively believed anything we did of the sort in a hospital (with sterile gloves and drapes, tools, etc) for a newborn boy must be for a reason, and a good one at that, otherwise why would we do it?!
It is the love and support on this board, and those brave and compassionate enough to step forward after they made a choice which cannot be undone and share the personal details of that (and who live to enjoy their beautiful sons, strive to teach them to respect their whole bodies and let them know they've always been loved, and do NOT envision circumstraints every time they see their beautiful boy) have made all the difference for me.
Love is the answer, and it is only in this way, and not in alienation, that we will remain in people's lives and be able to make the biggest difference.

[jeminijad]

No matter how wildly upsetting you find circ, and how little you understand the thought process behind choosing it- it isn't about you.

Why take away the one anti circumcision person that may be in that tiny little boy's life? Why deprive him of an aunt? Your outrage is less important than lifelong relationships.

[erin23kate]

Honestly, I don't believe that anyone who chooses to circumcise their child out of love is fully informed. Period.

They may have read a couple of articles online, maybe even watched a video, but I doubt they're "fully informed" about the value of the foreskin, the risks of the procedure, the complications, or even the rate of it worldwide. They may choose not to learn about those things, may close their eyes and pretend they didn't hear it.

If you were to quiz any parent who circ'd about the facts, I guarantee you that they would get the majority of the facts wrong.

Example:
How many babies are estimated to die every year from circumcision?
What do circumcision scars look like?
Exactly how is the procedure performed, by whom, what are their qualifications, and how is the baby's pain being treated?
What is the purpose of the foreskin?
Was your great-grandfather circumcised?
What is the national infant circumcision rate?
Do you have to retract a baby's foreskin to keep him clean?
What countries worldwide routinely circumcise their infants?
What percentage of intact men actually "need" to be circumcised later in life?


If they can't answer those questions, they aren't well-informed.

See what I mean?

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

I have removed numerous posts from the thread. Per the TCAC forum guidelines:

In an effort to minimize language which might alienate those seeking information, we are cautious about using pejorative terms such as abuse, barbarism, mutilation, etc. when routinely discussing circumcision. Let the facts speak for themselves.

If your post included these words or quoted a post that did, it was removed. Please keep this in mind when posting. Further posting in this manner will lead to removal of the thread and alerts.

[krazymamatoo]

Once again, very well said Galatea.

We all, as individuals, have a right to our own feelings, actions and reactions to this. Just because mine may be different than yours (general you), that does not mean that I cannot see the merit in yours or you in mine. If you (again, general you) really want to be open-minded, you will respect that my feelings are valid because they are mine (and vice-versa) and they do not make me any better or worse than you. We each have our own comfort level on this and many other areas in our life; and every situation is different, so it makes sense that there are always going to be different viewpoints.

[KaylaBeanie]

I voted that I wouldn't cut them out, but would be upset. To be honest though, there likely would be some distancing (albeit subconscious) that came out of it. I know it's not about me, but it's natural for me to react to it. Think of it this way...if do something (become vegan, switch religions, change my politics, etc) it is natural that some of the people in my life will not fit with those beliefs, and they will naturally not want to spend as much time around me because we don't have those beliefs in common. Circumcision is much the same. It's something I feel very strongly about, so while I would never dream of purposely cutting somebody out of my life, that is a VERY big thing we no longer have in common and it's a natural reaction to withdraw a little when you see someone so blatantly display their radically different beliefs. For the record, when I speak about radically different beliefs, I am speaking more broadly than just circumcision...I just cannot stay close with someone who doesn't believe that autonomy is a person's right.

I also say this as someone whose brother and SIL will circumcise any future sons. It makes me sick, and I know that when they do have a son I will be really pissed off at them for hurting my nephew. However, they're family and will always be in my life to some extent. Thankfully my sister won't circumcise, because we're really close and it would devestate me for that to come between us. I told her what circumcision was and <<that is about what her face looked like.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by jeminijad

Your outrage is less important than lifelong relationships.

In your opinion.

[Doodlebugsmom]

Originally Posted by rhiOrion

My sister just circed her son. And I think suddenly cutting contact with my sister is throwing one awful thing after another without even solving the first awful thing!

I can't imagine cutting my sister out of my life because she did something that I disagree with, especially since it was a LEGAL thing to do!

I just try to avoid the topic completely.

I love my sister. She is my SISTER. Family seems to mean more to me than it does to some people.

This. Exactly. Well, almost exactly. My sister had twin boys. They're two years old now, and I just love them to pieces. My kids do too. It would be unfair of me to deprive not only myself, but my sister, nephews and my children of this relationship.

Oh, and my sister is very much the opposite of me. She has made many choices that I wouldn't make. She is also an RN, so of course I though she wouldn't circ her boys. But she did. It makes me sad when I change their diapers or give them baths. Like I said, I love them.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by SubliminalDarkness

I guess I just can't understand this. I would grieve far more for the loss of my sister, BIL, and nephew than I would the nephew's foreskin alone.

Exactly.

[EviesMom]

To me, the relationship is much more important than circ status.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

I am closing this thread and removing numerous posts for taking direct issue with other posters. Since this is the second time the thread has been closed, it will not be reopened after pruning.