DD doesn't use my language. WWYD?

[mambera]

So we have a lot of languages going on at home. My ILs are living with us at the moment. ILs and DH speak Hindi to DD, and speak to each other in a mix of Telugu, Hindi, and English. I speak Greek to DD, English to DH and FIL, and with MIL I use a mix of English (which she understands but doesn't speak much) and my minimal Hindi. I am the only Greek-speaking adult in the house.

DD (16mo) has total comprehension in all 4 languages. She seems to speak about 50/50 Hindi and English. (Nobody speaks English to her directly but they throw a lot of English vocab into their Hindi and we also read board books to her in English.) My ILs tell me she speaks some Telugu also. She used to have a few words in Greek but has stopped using them. I get the feeling she has decided Greek is unique to Mama and isn't a language used by adults to communicate, and therefore it isn't something she thinks will be useful. My family lives far away and I don't have a Greek-speaking community here.

Do I need to change something about the way I speak with her? Right now I use 95% Greek (I use English phrases when I'm talking 'through' her to DH). I often translate back to her stuff that she says to me in English or Hindi. She has a lot of books in English and I read those to her in English.

DH thinks I should stop responding to her when she uses English or Hindi. He also thinks I should stop reading English to her, and just talk about the pictures in the books in Greek rather than reading the English words.

I am sort of inclined to avoid getting rigid about it, rather just continue speaking to her in Greek and accept that Greek comprehension is a good outcome for this situation. I mainly want to be able to bring her on trips to Greece to visit family and not have her be linguistically isolated.

Thoughts?

[La Sombra]

I think that the situation you describe is the reason that a lot of parents abandon, to some extent, the goal of getting their children to speak their language. It feels like so much effort, and you don't want it to feel like a chore or punishment or something to them, right?

I think you are right not to want to make speaking Greek with her something that has to be forced. I think that if you take too stern an approach that it will in fact backfire. However, I think that if you are willing to put in a bit of extra effort, that you *could* achieve spoken fluency with your dd.

And why wouldn't you want to? I think that if she has total comprehension of Greek, even if she can't speak it, that that would be FANTASTIC. But I also think that there are things you could do (I think your dh's suggestions are good, actually) that could bring her back on track.

I recommend the book Seven Steps to Raising a Bilingual Child. First of all, you will find that that challenges you are facing are very common and predictable ones. And you will find very useful strategies and solutions for dealing with them. I wish you good luck!

[foodmachine]

I almost cried seeing your post. I was coming here to post the same thread. My DD is 2 years and 10 months only speaks Swedish to me. I'm fluent and she knows it. She understands English perfectly but since starting Swedish nursery at 22 months her verbal English has all but disappeared.

We have decided that DH (whose Swedish) will now speak only English in the house (our family language) and I'm going to start with your DH's ideas. It is difficult. I, like you, fear making my mother tongue something loathsome.

I'm picking up that book and subbing to hear more ideas.

[DariusMom]

Originally Posted by foodmachine

We have decided that DH (whose Swedish) will now speak only English in the house (our family language) and I'm going to start with your DH's ideas. It is difficult. I, like you, fear making my mother tongue something loathsome.

That's what we had to do. DS' spoken English was really weak (it still is weaker than his Dutch though it's much better now) so we all started to speak English when we were together. For us, OPOL just didn't give DS enough English, considering he went to a Dutch daycare, then to Dutch school and even his international friends (who also spoke English) spoke Dutch to him.

[~pi]

Originally Posted by mambera

DH thinks I should stop responding to her when she uses English or Hindi. He also thinks I should stop reading English to her, and just talk about the pictures in the books in Greek rather than reading the English words.

I would do the first (stop responding when she speaks anything other than Greek) but not the second (avoiding English books.) That's the way we got over that hump -- I played innocent and pretended that I didn't understand him speaking other languages. I could still understand other people speaking those languages, books, etc., but if DS wanted something from me, I could only understand him in our shared language. After a few tantrums, we got through it and he stopped testing that rule.

[Eclipsepearl]

You can ignore, which works or do what I did. I simply was slooooooow when my son asked me for something in French. When he asked in English, he got it right away!

I was also super-positive about anything he said to me in English. When he spoke French, I was all "huh?" I also used to make him repeat everything in French. I didn't force him to use English but everything said to me in French had to be said twice, in English, only once.

The fact that you are fluent or not fluent in a language has little or no impact with children. My dh doesn't speak English and I lived here in France and spoke French before meeting him. The only English in our house is me with the kids.

I would also only read in Greek to her. If you live in an English speaking country, you don't need to teach her English at home. That will eventually be his dominate language. I have plenty of English children's books and only read to them in English. If they want a French book, they have to get Papa.

Please don't use the word "rigid". It sounds soooo judgemental. If you're a parent, it's your right to set standards. That would be the case if you went to church on Sundays or were vegetarian or if you didn't want a T.V. in your house. You can be stricter about what you consider to be important, what your values are. If you are not that bothered about her learning Greek, just respond to her in whatever language she uses.

As contra-logical as this sounds, being "rigid" with the Greek will help your dd organize her multilingual world in her head. She can clearly see what language is used where. Some parents teaching many languages at once fail because their children don't manage to separate them and they end up just using whatever dominate language is around them in all cases.

Just remember that "understanding" is not being bilingual.

I was able to keep this stage to a minimum and my son was much older than your dd when it was happening. Soon, I was hearing English and only English from him and it was easier than I thought it would be. It was also easier for me to do all exchanges in English and only English with him, instead of bouncing back and forth.

His sisters later picked up his cues and never spoke French to me from the get-go. Now, he finds this story funny. Speak to Mommy in French? me?? The very thought is amusing. A few months ago he passed an exam for native speakers to get into an English speaking program for middle school here. The examiners were really surprised to hear his English. "You have lived in France all your life??" they asked him.

Now that he's older, I'm so glad I can discuss the "sticky" subjects, like religion, how an engine works, early sex questions, etc. in my native language. I'm as fluent as anything in French but there's just that extra bond I have with my three kids, in speaking my own language with them that I could never have if we spoke French together.

So just make Greek a positive, reponsive thing for her. Go over vocabulary with her from time to time so she has the words she needs. Make her feel good to use Greek with you and you wont regret it!

[mambera]

Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl

You can ignore, which works or do what I did. I simply was slooooooow when my son asked me for something in French. When he asked in English, he got it right away!

Was there a stage when he never used any English at all? What did you do then? I'm not sure how to move from zero to enough Greek to encourage in this way.

Complicating matters, I don't think my DD has the oral-motor skills yet to handle a lot of the Greek vocab. Eg her new favorite word is "Busy!" - for which the equivalent Greek word is six syllables long. I can repeat "Apasxolimeni!" to her all day long but seriously it is going to be a long time before she can pronounce it.

I would also only read in Greek to her. If you live in an English speaking country, you don't need to teach her English at home. That will eventually be his dominate language. I have plenty of English children's books and only read to them in English. If they want a French book, they have to get Papa.

This is tough because of limited materials - it's quite hard to find Greek-language books outside of Greece. I had my dad bring us some children's books from Greece but they have been totally overwhelmed by the flood of English-language books given to us by other people. Also most of the Greek books are for a somewhat older child (printed on paper rather than board, lots of words, etc.). I'd have to insist on reading her the same Greek-language board book over and over, and nothing else. For me, that is more rigid (or insert your word of choice) than I want to be as a parent.

I have quit reading her English books to her though - as you say, she is going to learn English no matter what since we live in the US. I am just doing what DH suggested and talking to her about them in Greek.

The fact that you are fluent or not fluent in a language has little or no impact with children. My dh doesn't speak English and I lived here in France and spoke French before meeting him. The only English in our house is me with the kids.

Actually I have been following a lot of your posts on here bc I am encouraged by your success as the only parent speaking your language to your DC. I did notice that you said it mattered more what you spoke to your kids than what they heard between adults, which I found encouraging. For my DD though, it doesn't seem to be working that way. She seems to be paying more attention to languages she hears used between adults. Eg she will hear DH speaking to his parents in Telugu, pick out a Telugu word and repeat it over and over. She has a fair Telugu vocabulary (it seems I underestimate it bc I don't understand any of it) even though nobody in the house is speaking to her in Telugu. Same with English. The only way she could have picked up "Busy!" is from listening to me conversing with DH or FIL. Did you notice this with your DC? Do you think it's a phase or has it to do with my kid's personality?

Just remember that "understanding" is not being bilingual.

Yeah, I have seen a lot of semisuccessful bilinguals. I was actually raised bilingual (split time between the US and Greece, though more in the US) and I know many people who were raised in the US with both parents speaking Greek in the home and whose Greek is still pretty poor. I know what that outcome looks like. Honestly for this situation (only one parent speaking Greek and no other sources) I would count it a success. But I think even achieving that is going to require serious persistence on my part.

Thanks for your input everyone. This has been helpful.

[Mama2Cesca]

Both my children went through phases where they would only talk in Dutch. I had eventually got tired of feeling like I was trying to shove English down their throats. My oldest told me she didn't see why she should speak English as I understood Dutch.

Things that helped were family visitors that didn't speak Dutch. They would always speak English to my parents when they visited. However because they didn't speak it with me their English would be limited and that led to feeling frusturated. What helped a lot is going to the USA for five months last year. It was especially helpful to the little one that was 4/5 years old at the time. She finally grasped that other people besides mama/oma/opa speak English and that it is useful to know. My oldest realized it was no fun not being fluent and having a heavy accent. A few days before we would return to Belgium I had a talk with the girls(especially the nine year old) about how I hoped they would keep talking in English to me when they return to Belgium. I told them that it is better for them to use their English and it is much nicer for me to talk to them in English. They both still only talk in English to me. My youngest sounds like a native English speaker now. My oldest loves to chat in msn messenger in English, has a journal in English(has one in Dutch too), and reads books in English.

I shared my story because I remember when both my children were as young as your child is. I worried that they would never speak English with me! My dh only speaks Dutch to the kids. My mil lives next to us and she only speaks Dutch.

[LessTraveledBy]

Our dd (5,5) is fluent in two languages. Both seem easy for her.

I would really suggest that you speak (read, etc.) only one language to her. If things work out ok, there will come a time when you don't have to stick to that rule so much. I would imagine that to be some years off for you, though.

This is just me.... But I would want one person to speak the language of the country which I lived in to my child. I would also want the additional language to come one per person. I have no doubt that three languages can be ok, but I would worry about a poor understanding of the language the child will need to use in school and society. (I used to work at an international school and saw some kids with 3 languages... none of which they spoke like a native. It was pretty sad to see.)

[mambera]

Originally Posted by LessTraveledBy

I would also want the additional language to come one per person.

I agree that the multiple-languages are very non-ideal. Like I said I have very managed expectations for what fluency my DD is likely to acquire in these languages. But it's not like we have another option. I speak very little Hindi (though I'm working on it) and my husband speaks no Greek (and is not working on it).

We had agreed on OPOL ahead of time and that is what we are doing - I speak Greek to DD, and DH/MIL/FIL all speak Hindi to her. But it's not reasonable to expect them to stop speaking Telugu to each other.

I have no doubt that three languages can be ok, but I would worry about a poor understanding of the language the child will need to use in school and society. (I used to work at an international school and saw some kids with 3 languages... none of which they spoke like a native. It was pretty sad to see.)

I have seen this also - also at an international school. I think it happens when everyone the child interacts with speaks both (or several) languages, so they mix them freely and never end up acquiring the proficiency of a monolingual in either tongue.

But in the more common case of a community vs household language, typically the child easily acquires native fluency in the community language but acquisition of the household language requires more sustained effort on the part of the parents.

Seriously I am not worried that my DD is not going to pick up English, living in the US and going to English-language school here.

[Fluga]

When my DD started talking I would tell her what to say in my language (Icelandic).  It worked pretty well for us. I wasnt very strict with her, any attempt at saying the word no matter how garbled was accepted.  Now that she is talking a lot more she will often say something in Finnish to me so I basically ask her what she said in Icelandic giving her all the word and most of the time she repeats in Icelandic.  This can be awfully tiring but I see some results with it.  I'm also very slow to respond to requests in Finnish or then I simply dont (ask her in Icelandic if she doesnt catch on to switch).

[kindchen]

Wait--your daughter is only 16 months old? Wow. My kids weren't even talking at that age, beyond using a "first word" or two. 

My children answer mostly in English, although our family language is German. (They are two and three.) But I really think that if we do what EclipsePearl suggests, they will very likely be fully bilingual. I'm really shocked by how hard it is to teach a non-community language. 

One thing I wanted to suggest that I hadn't seen in anyone else's posts. You can "read" any book to your daughter in Greek. She can't read, and presumably the books a 16-month-old is interested in aren't too complicated. I read books to my kids in the language they are written in, although if we talk about what is going on in the pictures or something, we speak German. My husband, on the other hand, absolutely refuses to read in English. He just translates as he goes. He doesn't just talk about the pictures. I have even considered using a sharpie to just write the German translations in the books so they are easier to read that way. So that would be a way to read only in Greek without having many Greek children's books.

As far as how to switch to you "not understanding" anything but Greek---I would script it for her. Like if she asks for water in English, you say (in Greek) "Can you say, "water please?"

[Mosaic]

Originally Posted by kindchen 

Wait--your daughter is only 16 months old? Wow. My kids weren't even talking at that age, beyond using a "first word" or two. 

My children answer mostly in English, although our family language is German. (They are two and three.) But I really think that if we do what EclipsePearl suggests, they will very likely be fully bilingual. I'm really shocked by how hard it is to teach a non-community language. 

One thing I wanted to suggest that I hadn't seen in anyone else's posts. You can "read" any book to your daughter in Greek. She can't read, and presumably the books a 16-month-old is interested in aren't too complicated. I read books to my kids in the language they are written in, although if we talk about what is going on in the pictures or something, we speak German. My husband, on the other hand, absolutely refuses to read in English. He just translates as he goes. He doesn't just talk about the pictures. I have even considered using a sharpie to just write the German translations in the books so they are easier to read that way. So that would be a way to read only in Greek without having many Greek children's books.

As far as how to switch to you "not understanding" anything but Greek---I would script it for her. Like if she asks for water in English, you say (in Greek) "Can you say, "water please?"

I agree... I think at this point it's premature to draw any conclusions about her comprehension or language skills since it's still so early in development. DD started out speaking only Spanish, then at daycare it was 90% English. Now she's in a Spanish-speaking preschool and we're back to about 75% Spanish. Kindergarten starts next year and I'm sure we'll be back to mostly English again.

It's in constant flux, but we do our best to expose her to the minority language, and hope that it sinks in. I will say that a couple of my approaches in the beginning turned out not to work as well later, eg:
1) Pretending not to understand English, or asking her to repeat things. Yeah, she knows darn well I don't do that to my mom or the lady at the grocery store!
2) Translating books on the fly. Did that all the time, and now that she's starting to read, she's looking for the words I used when telling the story, but of course they're not in there! Whoops!

[marinak1977]

I'm wondering how I'm going to encourage DS to speak Russian when DH and the family dogs are all English speakers. This thread has some great suggestions.

[cloudswinger]

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

Originally Posted by kindchen 

Wait--your daughter is only 16 months old? Wow. My kids weren't even talking at that age, beyond using a "first word" or two. 

My children answer mostly in English, although our family language is German. (They are two and three.) But I really think that if we do what EclipsePearl suggests, they will very likely be fully bilingual. I'm really shocked by how hard it is to teach a non-community language. 

One thing I wanted to suggest that I hadn't seen in anyone else's posts. You can "read" any book to your daughter in Greek. She can't read, and presumably the books a 16-month-old is interested in aren't too complicated. I read books to my kids in the language they are written in, although if we talk about what is going on in the pictures or something, we speak German. My husband, on the other hand, absolutely refuses to read in English. He just translates as he goes. He doesn't just talk about the pictures. I have even considered using a sharpie to just write the German translations in the books so they are easier to read that way. So that would be a way to read only in Greek without having many Greek children's books.

As far as how to switch to you "not understanding" anything but Greek---I would script it for her. Like if she asks for water in English, you say (in Greek) "Can you say, "water please?"

I agree... I think at this point it's premature to draw any conclusions about her comprehension or language skills since it's still so early in development. DD started out speaking only Spanish, then at daycare it was 90% English. Now she's in a Spanish-speaking preschool and we're back to about 75% Spanish. Kindergarten starts next year and I'm sure we'll be back to mostly English again.

It's in constant flux, but we do our best to expose her to the minority language, and hope that it sinks in. I will say that a couple of my approaches in the beginning turned out not to work as well later, eg:
1) Pretending not to understand English, or asking her to repeat things. Yeah, she knows darn well I don't do that to my mom or the lady at the grocery store!
2) Translating books on the fly. Did that all the time, and now that she's starting to read, she's looking for the words I used when telling the story, but of course they're not in there! Whoops!

At about 18 months my DD(now 6.5) went through a phase where she only wanted to speak English with me. I just continued with speaking Vietnamese, not really asking her to repeat things, but translating/ rephrasing her requests into Vietnamese so she'd know what to say. I also translated books on the fly for a while, but then that also goes by the wayside once they can read. Eventually she switched back to speaking Vietnamese to me. She also learned that Vietnamese wasn't only spoken by me, through various incidents outside of the home, so it became more valued so to speak. It's hard, I don't live in an area with a lot of Vietnamese, so I generally am the main person, but I have managed to find resources over the years, and have taken her to Vietnam, so she's well on the way to being bilingual. It takes time, patience and persistence but it can be done.

[Charmsalot]

Another useful tool may be movies or television. I don't remember, but I'm pretty certain that I learned Hindi from hanging around my mother when she watched Hindi movies. I'm not even sure how that happened because Hindi is not the native language of either of my parents and nobody ever spoke it to me as a child.

My mother's movies weren't even specifically aimed at children. Nowadays, with the internet, I wonder if it would be possible to import children's entertainment in the language that you want to teach them?

[Ragana]

No great solutions, just sympathy here. I speak Latvian to my kids, and DH speaks English. We live in the US, and they attend a Spanish-immersion program, so speak Spanish and English at school. It's tough sometimes to get them to speak Latvian to me. They can do short answers easily. For a while, I've let them just speak to me because I could see that it was important to them to get out what they wanted to say. Now, I think their Latvian needs to take a step forward, so I am requiring them to tell me longer stories in Latvian rather than starting with a few words in Latvian and then switching to English. At this point, I think it's a bit of laziness mixed with some "language fatigue" perhaps from switching back and forth all day. I get it, too, sometimes, since I use Latvian, English and German regularly every day. Anyway, good luck, and keep speaking Greek!

[Ragana]

Originally Posted by kindchen 
 I'm really shocked by how hard it is to teach a non-community language.

I agree. I am a translator, and I hear from other translators all the time about how effortlessly their children learned two, three, four languages, and now they are fully multilingual, etc. Hats off! It hasn't been that easy for us. When my kids were first learning to talk and actually into the early school years, I worked and my DH was the stay-at-home dad/student, so I'm still trying to make up for the years that the girls had 80-90% English exposure. Actually, it's a miracle they do speak my language at all.

[happysmileylady]

At 16 months old, my dd had essentially no words, and we only speak English here.  To me the fact that she is communicating her needs in any language is pretty impressive.