Would this "scare" you?

[APToddlerMama]

I have posted before about DS who is 2.5. Basically, we have no diagnosis and speech and motor delays, some neurological soft signs, etc.

Anyhow, I'll keep this short. DS has some really elaborate imitation skills, both of people and animals. My husband jokes that he is going to be on SNL one day doing impressions. Anyhow, he has about 5 impersonations of people that he does that are spot on, and 2 of animals. Yesterday, his PT was at our house and he was role playing an animal and she commented that it was so realistic and impressive that it was "scary." She very much wanted him to quit pretending to be an animal and commented that it was "spectrum-y." Now, ASD has been on our radar for a long time, but most of the people working with him are not thinking this is what is going on anymore (since GFCF). I am just wondering....does this really seem abnormal? Surely DS has issues, but I just have never heard that elaborate pretend play and imitation skills are something I should be worried about. Just wondering what other people think.

[SpottedFoxx]

Sounds really cool to me. I can't see why she'd think it was "spectrumy".

My son presents as being on the spectrum to every professional doctor and/or therapist he meets. Then, after about 20 minutes, they admit they were wrong.

I wouldn't worry about it.

[Lollybrat]

Many children on the autism spectrum have an amazing capacity for verbal mimicry. It has to do with having a gestalt way of processing language. Often it is part of echolalia or scripting.

My son with ASD was like this when he started speaking. He was like a little tape recorder. At that stage of learning verbal language, he was unable to seperate the different aspects of someone's speech and identify what the really important parts were: the words, the speed, the accent, the inflection, etc. So he memorized all of it and recited things back exactly the same way as he had heard them.

ETA: I don't mean to imply that ASD is the only cause of this type of mimicry. But there are other reasons to have ASD on the radar, I would count it as a concern.

[nicky85]

I was especially good at mimcry when I was a kid. Even now, it's like, I hear it, I replicate it. Accents, voices, singing voices, etc. And I was really imaginative. People told me I should go into acting. Maybe his abilities at mimicry are independent of anything ASD. I wonder if getting into drama could even be good for him? Doesn't seem scary to me. =)

[blessed.mommy]

I'm a newbie at all this ASD stuff, but it seems odd that she thought his pretend play was "spectrum-y". My DS1 (2.5 yrs) doesn't pretend play or interact social very much at all and they suspect mild autism. I'd say your DS is talented!

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by blessed.mommy

I'm a newbie at all this ASD stuff, but it seems odd that she thought his pretend play was "spectrum-y". My DS1 (2.5 yrs) doesn't pretend play or interact social very much at all and they suspect mild autism. I'd say your DS is talented!

I don't find it odd at all that she found this "spectrum-y". We saw plenty of specialists who were unable to separate normal childhood things from children who had other issues. Because in reality, they predominantly SAW kids with issues--so if the kids with issues did it, it must be part of the issues.

There tends to be no separation between what these kids do that is normal/neurotypical and what they do that comes with the territory of the spectrum sometimes. So if you only saw SN kids (or saw them more often in a setting where you are able to observe them more than just in passing where you see NT kids more in passing) and they all really liked something, your tendency would be to associate it with the SN kids when in reality, you may just not have been in the presence of NT kids enough in a similar setting to see that this is really not all that specific to the SN.

We ultimately saw more of this than we were comfortable with in our therapists--who were wonderful and sincere, just clearly biased. And some of them had their own NT kids.

For me, it would be something to watch but not scary.

[NightOwlwithowlet]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg

I don't find it odd at all that she found this "spectrum-y". We saw plenty of specialists who were unable to separate normal childhood things from children who had other issues. Because in reality, they predominantly SAW kids with issues--so if the kids with issues did it, it must be part of the issues.

There tends to be no separation between what these kids do that is normal/neurotypical and what they do that comes with the territory of the spectrum sometimes. So if you only saw SN kids (or saw them more often in a setting where you are able to observe them more than just in passing where you see NT kids more in passing) and they all really liked something, your tendency would be to associate it with the SN kids when in reality, you may just not have been in the presence of NT kids enough in a similar setting to see that this is really not all that specific to the SN.

We ultimately saw more of this than we were comfortable with in our therapists--who were wonderful and sincere, just clearly biased. And some of them had their own NT kids.

For me, it would be something to watch but not scary.

This has always been a concern for me with specialists. I'm often left wondering how much time they spend with typical kids. I can't tell you how many times I'd mention a "concerning behavior" to a friend with a same age typical kid and have them say "Mine does the same thing" Sure enough there is the kid flapping his arms and DS is imitating him and they pretending to be birds. Don't get me wrong, DS had issues and still does, but not every thing is a behavior or "spectrumy". I play with my hair and jewelery, which is a stim and I am NT as they come.

[Kristine233]

I think it's awesome. I really cringe when people (especially "professionals") turn spectrum behaviors into a negative.

My son does this too and we've always embraced it as a unique ability.

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by NightOwlwithowlet

This has always been a concern for me with specialists. I'm often left wondering how much time they spend with typical kids. I can't tell you how many times I'd mention a "concerning behavior" to a friend with a same age typical kid and have them say "Mine does the same thing" Sure enough there is the kid flapping his arms and DS is imitating him and they pretending to be birds. Don't get me wrong, DS had issues and still does, but not every thing is a behavior or "spectrumy". I play with my hair and jewelery, which is a stim and I am NT as they come.

Exactly my point.

And they set US up as parents to look like morons when we believe them, tell a parent of an NT kid, and that parent says "See? Mine does it, too". As it is, we are already suspect and judged--ya know?

Say "it's something to watch" (and agreed--maybe it is). I'm not saying not to take what they say seriously. I'm just saying to take it with a grain of salt and look for multiple sources of the same information--ya know?

Like coming here.

[Lollybrat]

Originally Posted by NightOwlwithowlet

This has always been a concern for me with specialists. I'm often left wondering how much time they spend with typical kids. I can't tell you how many times I'd mention a "concerning behavior" to a friend with a same age typical kid and have them say "Mine does the same thing" Sure enough there is the kid flapping his arms and DS is imitating him and they pretending to be birds. Don't get me wrong, DS had issues and still does, but not every thing is a behavior or "spectrumy". I play with my hair and jewelery, which is a stim and I am NT as they come.

Someone once told me that "Autism behaviors are just normal behaviors on steroids" and I have found this to be true. It is not the presence of certain behaviors that is concerning; it's the extent of those behaviors, whether or not they interfere with the child's ability to function, and the function that the behaviors serve.

IME when I say that my child with ASD does something all the time and the parent of a typical child says, "my child does that all the time too," we are really talking about different things. But it can be hard for that to come across accurately on an online forum.

[SpottedFoxx]

Originally Posted by Kristine233

I think it's awesome. I really cringe when people (especially "professionals") turn spectrum behaviors into a negative.

My son does this too and we've always embraced it as a unique ability.

I agree! Not just spectrum disorders either. My son has SPD and is a seeker extraordinaire! I am sure some people may find the behavior odd, annoying or maybe even disturbing but I love when my son takes my hands and pushes them against his face or flinging himself at me for hugs or begs for tickles. It's just part of my son's uniqueness.

OP - your son's behavior is cool. End of story

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Lollybrat

Someone once told me that "Autism behaviors are just normal behaviors on steroids" and I have found this to be true. It is not the presence of certain behaviors that is concerning; it's the extent of those behaviors, whether or not they interfere with the child's ability to function, and the function that the behaviors serve.

[NightOwlwithowlet]

Originally Posted by Lollybrat

Someone once told me that "Autism behaviors are just normal behaviors on steroids" and I have found this to be true. It is not the presence of certain behaviors that is concerning; it's the extent of those behaviors, whether or not they interfere with the child's ability to function, and the function that the behaviors serve.

IME when I say that my child with ASD does something all the time and the parent of a typical child says, "my child does that all the time too," we are really talking about different things. But it can be hard for that to come across accurately on an online forum.

You're absolutely right. I'm sorry if what I wrote came across wrong on line. It's hard to say things right. I'm sad when I think of all the time I spent worrying about DS. I missed so much when he was small, worrying, watching, and comparing him to others. A lot of what I worried about was typical or just a passing phase. I wish I could have the time back or just have enjoyed being with him. Sorry again if I offended anyone.

[SilverLace]

I'd like to add that mimicry is not pretend play.

My DSS with AS can imitate, but he cannot do pretend play very well.

I would consider this a possible spectrum behavior.

And, in response to all the positive statements about the spectrum... I'd like to add that it's OK to have other feelings about it. Many parents of SN kids, including spectrum kids, have a lot of mixed feelings. Our day to day reality can be pretty stressful... it's not a judgment against my DSS, but it isn't all positive all the time.

[Kristine233]

Originally Posted by SilverLace

And, in response to all the positive statements about the spectrum... I'd like to add that it's OK to have other feelings about it. Many parents of SN kids, including spectrum kids, have a lot of mixed feelings. Our day to day reality can be pretty stressful... it's not a judgment against my DSS, but it isn't all positive all the time.

It's normal to have negative feelings no matter the ability of your child, special needs or not. It comes with the territory of parenting, not all of it is peaches and cream. We just have different things that may be hard.

I tend to focus on the positives in everything, it helps me get through life with a smile and without carrying a ton of extra stress. It doesn't mean there aren't negatives or hard times.

I mean, yesterday when my ds wouldn't keep his hands off his sister in the store and tormented her for 15 minutes I was about out of patience. He was purposefully standing in her personal space, face to face with her, and randomly grabbing at her and mumbling stuff about China. I put my self between them but was trying to pay. She is in the process of getting evaled as well. Hey, I snapped and turned and said "If you don't knock it off I'm putting you in a box to China when we are done here". Yeah, not my greatest mom moment. Lol. The cashier did try to hide her giggle. My son scowled at me and turned his back at me as he stated that he "Was very upset with me." How do you respond? Lol. I went with the fall back "Good use of words Andrew."

Special needs parenting is frustrating and hard, but all parenting is. Enjoy what you can and try to take as much positive out of it as you can. Realize the negatives are normal and use them as learning experiences.

[dakotablue]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama

Anyhow, he has about 5 impersonations of people that he does that are spot on, and 2 of animals. Yesterday, his PT was at our house and he was role playing an animal and she commented that it was so realistic and impressive that it was "scary." She very much wanted him to quit pretending to be an animal and commented that it was "spectrum-y." .

Ok...so you 2.5 year old was role playing? If this was actual play than hey age appropriate. It annoys me so much how many people in my field (or what used to be my field) are 'creating' little adults. They don't allow tantrums in a 3 year. They don't allow kids to hide from strangers when they are 4.

I'm sorry the term "spectrum-y." bothers me. It implies that there is something wrong with being on the spectrum, that it should be trained out of them.

I agree with to PP who said that it seems like people in this field have forgotten what typical looks like. Best example I know, the OT on the playground forcing an autistic child to not playing on the swings and to not wonder around, but play a formulated game. Which would be 'okish' if all of the childs peers weren't also wondering around, picking up leaves and wanting to spend all their time on the swings. Like I said they are trying to 'train' little adults.

Sorry for the soapbox, this just really rubs me the wrong way.

And yes, if this is just echololia then it could be another sign of developmental issues, but play....

[Kristine233]

Originally Posted by dakotablue

I agree with to PP who said that it seems like people in this field have forgotten what typical looks like. Best example I know, the OT on the playground forcing an autistic child to not playing on the swings and to not wonder around, but play a formulated game. Which would be 'okish' if all of the childs peers weren't also wondering around, picking up leaves and wanting to spend all their time on the swings. Like I said they are trying to 'train' little adults.

A million times YES, ty.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by SilverLace

I'd like to add that mimicry is not pretend play.

My DSS with AS can imitate, but he cannot do pretend play very well.

Thank you everyone for all the responses! Lots of good thoughts. I just wanted to mention that it isn't so much mimicry as very elaborate pretend play. His verbal skills are still very limited so there are some words, but more than anything, he's doing very specific detailed mannerisms (sp?) that certain people we know have and with the animals, it is the same thing. For example, he found something that looks like a leash, sticks it down his shirt, and wants to be "walked." His imitation of a dog is about as realistic as you could possibly get, right down to making his hands look like paws, shaking his head, nuzzling to pretend to get us to pet him, etc.

Honestly, I think it is a neat skill. I pretty much lack all forms of creativity, so I just see him as being very creative. It gets annoying to have every specialist find every single behavior to be a sign of one "problem" or another.

[EdnaMarie]

It sounds to me like his capacities for pretend play and mimicry are way ahead of his other skills (and way ahead of many kids his age). Maybe that's just "his thing".

But then, I'm all for neurodiversity. To me, if a child doesn't have problems, there is no reason at all to speculate on whether or not their talents are somehow linked to imaginary problems. Mimicry is a gift, so if I were you I wouldn't worry about it. Save your worrying for problems. :yay

I'm sorry the term "spectrum-y." bothers me. It implies that there is something wrong with being on the spectrum, that it should be trained out of them.

I agree completely. Train a child to function when necessary, not to be normal. Who wants to be normal?

[mrsfru]

Originally Posted by Lollybrat 

Originally Posted by NightOwlwithowlet

This has always been a concern for me with specialists. I'm often left wondering how much time they spend with typical kids. I can't tell you how many times I'd mention a "concerning behavior" to a friend with a same age typical kid and have them say "Mine does the same thing" Sure enough there is the kid flapping his arms and DS is imitating him and they pretending to be birds. Don't get me wrong, DS had issues and still does, but not every thing is a behavior or "spectrumy". I play with my hair and jewelery, which is a stim and I am NT as they come.

Someone once told me that "Autism behaviors are just normal behaviors on steroids" and I have found this to be true. It is not the presence of certain behaviors that is concerning; it's the extent of those behaviors, whether or not they interfere with the child's ability to function, and the function that the behaviors serve.

IME when I say that my child with ASD does something all the time and the parent of a typical child says, "my child does that all the time too," we are really talking about different things. But it can be hard for that to come across accurately on an online forum.

This is so true...it's not necessarily how good they are at the mimicry, but how much they use it at that level and to what purpose the behavior serves the child. For example, it's really neat to watch our 5 yr old imitate an animal--he can pretend to be a squirrel, rabbit, dog, mouse, etc--and he gets all the details...every...single....one......It's really cute when he's playing w/a friend and these are for a few minutes here and there BUT it's pretty concerning when he's been doing it at school on the playground and then in the classroom all morning long and the other kids have long since ignored his behavior and he's answering his teachers in squeaks and shrugs.  And then when I pick him up, he continues to be a squirrel for the rest of the day, even trying to insist on eating acorns and peanuts for lunch and dinner.  When another parent says, "Oh, little Susie does that constantly, too." I take it w/a huge grain of salt.  Her "constantly" was probably 10 minutes during breakfast and another 5 at dinner (the rest of the day mom was at work and little Susie was at school).....mine was...well, constantly.  Did you know that squirrels poop and pee OUTSIDE? LOL