s/o what should 4 yo do if another hits her? - Page 2

[butterflies]

Originally Posted by Llyra

I taught my DD1 (who's six now) to stand directly facing the other child, and say, "don't do that to me. I don't like it," and then to turn and walk away, and go do something else. I helped her learn to raise her voice a bit, not screaming but just assertive and strong, and to stamp her foot for emphasis.

This is what my ds is taught in pre-K. He's also 4. I think they also hold up a hand in the "stop sign" motion. Of course, a teacher is almost always nearby but I think it's best they work on solving it themselves. He does tell the teacher if the other child doesn't stop.

dd (7) had a boy poking at her, pinching her, tugging her hair, etc in the beginning of school this year. (Also trying to kiss her on the back ) She was nervous about telling the teacher, especially because it was only the first couple weeks of school. But she figured out, all on her own, that what worked was to look the boy straight in the face for a few seconds and say firmly "I don't like that. I want you to stop."

In both cases, my kids have felt that the other children will also step in and tell the teacher or defend them against a bully. That makes a big difference and encourages them to speak up.

[Llyra]

Originally Posted by Petie1104

So what do you tell your child to do when all other options fail? Really, talking to a 9 yr. old is sometimes like talking to a wall, it doesn't work. In cases like this, where the teachers are apathetic, the parents aren't getting anywhere because of a school that won't admit anything,and a bully that won't quit, sometimes the only option to stop the abuse is to defend youself.

I think that in this particular instance, the example you're describing, the first thing I would do would be to get the child off the bus, unless my back was against the wall and there truly genuinely was no other transportation option. Then I'd take it up the chain of command-- to the driver's supervisor, and then higher if needed, and all the way to the school board if necessary. If that fails, we'd be seeing a lawyer.

[Petie1104]

The problem is, my parents believed the driver. They believed I was exaggerating. And while I pray I never do the same thing, I can't say with 100% certainty that there will never be a time when my child has to deal with an issue like that.

[Smithie]

"I think that in this particular instance, the example you're describing, the first thing I would do would be to get the child off the bus, unless my back was against the wall and there truly genuinely was no other transportation option. Then I'd take it up the chain of command-- to the driver's supervisor, and then higher if needed, and all the way to the school board if necessary. If that fails, we'd be seeing a lawyer."

When I imagine going through all that, and the further trouble it might cause for my kids as I spent months being the Crazy Mom who all the other parents were irritated with, I can't honestly say that I wouldn't prefer for my DD (or her older brother) to stop the bullying in its tracks by striking back. We're not leaving the bus, the park, the playground, the team, the school, etc. It's the bully who is either shaping up or leaving. If my child got suspended for standing up for their right to exist in a place unmaligned, then I would not be angry with them.

[EdnaMarie]

That "walking away to avoid physical violence" is actually reinforcing to the bully that his behavior brigns about the desired consequence.

The bully doesn't want you to leave the park.

The bully wants you to engage with him.

You engage, bully wins.

In cases like this, where the teachers are apathetic, the parents aren't getting anywhere because of a school that won't admit anything,and a bully that won't quit, sometimes the only option to stop the abuse is to defend youself.

Okay.

There are two parts to this. One, how good or even mediocre can a school be, that accepts this kind of thing? The teachers are not enthusiastic, they do not care about individuals, what is up with that? So I would certainly take this as a red flag that I need to look at making major sacrifices to put my kid in a different learning environment.

If that were not possible, I would bust my butt to start an anti-bullying program there. Stay up all nights if I work days. Talk to other parents. GEt people on my side. Work hard and make it happen.

being raised by someone who never ever stood up for herself and was basically a patsy, always "turning the other cheek" and "walking away because it just isn't worth it" rather than putting a stop to inappropriate situations.

How to put a stop to inappropriate situations:

YES:

Appeal to the good nature of the group ("We all say you can't do that to her. LEAVE NOW.")
Stand your ground, remain calm, and insist it stop ("Stop NOW." "Or what?" "No or. You can't do that to me.")
Appeal to a stronger authority (other parents, the teacher, the law)
Bring group together through humor ("Sticks and stones may break my bones but leaves will never hurt me... haha!")
Walk to another part of the park and gather allies ("Let's go guys, this area is full of flying rocks.")

NO:

Hit someone not very hard
Hit someone very hard
Beat the $4*! out of someone
Poke someone in the eye
Kick them in the shins
Push someone over
Kick them in the genitals
Throw them off someplace high like the big toy

Now, again, self-defense is one thing, if life and limb are in immediate danger. But in my book, if you can escape relatively unharmed, it's better to leave than to smack back.

Again, I am not suggesting that we do nothing. TBH I'm pretty surprised that on MDC, nonviolence is being cast as passive. Nonviolence is a developed technique used by many groups to achieve political aims, and many individuals. It is not as fast as violent revolution but I believe that stronger institutions and individuals arise from it, than from solving problems the fast way.

Nobody walks all over me. They can shout words in my direction, but they don't touch me because I don't care what they say. They can try to hit me, but since I'm part of a civil society, the civilized group will try them. They can even physically assault me, but I'm a survivor.

I do not need to inflict pain to prove that I'm the winner. I'm the winner BECAUSE I DO NOT ENGAGE IN VIOLENCE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkHTbkPoEQ8

India is now the world's largest democracy. It is one of the most ethnically, linguistically, and religiously diverse in the world. Imagine the tragedy if it were trapped in violent revolution. Obviously no democracy is perfect and I'm not claiming that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ZlL...eature=related

One of the most feared and respected women in Asia, nay, the world... and is non-violent. You think the military keeps her locked up because they think she will beat them up?

No. They know the strength of the majority of Burma, the decent people, will overwhelm them and they will lose their ability to control and torture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K1j9FaH2io

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74XJJ...eature=related

If our children cannot manage this on the playground, how can we manage this as a society???

I should clarify that IMO leaving is a last resort, but I'd rather leave if I can unless I'm prepared to take it to the end, and we need our time of recreation. That is a luxury.

Though, you all have convinced me that perhaps there is no room for me to leave. That I will have to be much more active in non-violence if it is to be an example, take it to the end, stand up to the parents and basically make an example each time, follow up with each child by taking them home, speaking to the parents in front of my children, and making sure all parties are clear that this is not acceptable.

However I would do it without physically coerscing the child.

I honestly had NO IDEA that so many people thought "hit back" was a viable strategy, even as a second or third option. At least, not among people that believed in gentle discipline. To me, we do not use violence PERIOD because it is ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Wrong for a child, wrong for an adult.

I will have to think of a new playground strategy... heh. Darn you all, making me think this to its logical conclusion.

I wouldn't prefer for my DD (or her older brother) to stop the bullying in its tracks by striking back.

It doesn't always stop it. At best, the bully moves on to another target. At worst, your kid loses the fight and still gets suspended. And regardless, you are engaging in violence and supporting the world view that violence is inevitable and solves problems.

[EdnaMarie]

If my child went to school and was attacked and defended himself and got suspended, you better believe we would be on the 6 oclock news complete with our medical records from the ER.

We are not talking about danger to life and limb. Bullies usually don't come at kids with a knife. They hit, they shove, they brush by, they kick.

These are not ER issues. I mean, you might go to the ER to document it, but they only prove that the child was in a fight, NOT that the child was attacked and did not provoke.

[Smithie]

I do agree that striking back doesn't always stop it, and that nonviolence is an effective (and most decidly not passive or pushover) strategy for resisting oppression. Its efficacy in a schoolyard bullying situation in America today is more what I'm questioning. I think there are situations where my kids might employ nonviolent resistance to great effect, and situations where their well-being would be even further compromised if they tried to pull a Gandhi.

Our local children's theater is putting on a presentation on bullying. These threads are making me think that this is the year I should take DS. At the very least, I could try and make sure that physically fighting back isn't the FIRST thing he tries...