gallstone cleanse.. WITHOUT citrus?

[TzippityDoulah]

Hi all,

I have, I suspect, gallstones. I have had the pains and aches for years, but it is getting really bad. I have a history of it on both sides of my family (both parents a couple of grandparents) so it's no surprise. The symptoms are identical to what my parents went through.

I eat VERY WELL. I cook everything from scratch and so forth. I don't do deep fried foods and such (I learned that quickly!) and I stay away from anything raw b/c it leaves me in agony. and I rarely rarely eat sugar.

Lately however it doesn't seem to matter how I ate. I flare up anyhow. I have intense bloating (I look pregnant!), I have swelling everywhere - arms and legs and feet. I have sharp and dull abdominal pains, a fullness feeling that feels like a balloon being blown up on the inside, sometimes so bad I can feel the pain in my back and shoulders. and chronic constipation. I have gotten my diet so I can usually avoid the attacks that leave me crying and screaming in pain, but in general I'm more often in some level of stomach pain than not. I never feel ok. I have started to hate eating!

I am taking dandelion root tea and capsules, milk thistle and beet root powder and CLO.

Anyhow, want to do a gallstone flush but I am very allergic to citrus and I can't find any ways to flush with out a citrus juice. Please tell me there is SOMETHING I can do. I will try almost anything to keep my gallbladder so give me ideas

p.s. any herbs I take have to be nursing friendly!

TIA!

[BellinghamCrunchie]

There isn't a gallbladder flush.

Gallbladder and liver "flushes" are widely advocated as a way of treating gallstones and helping with medical conditions ranging from allergies to cancer [1-4]. In the usual “flush,” half a cup or more of a vegetable oil is consumed together with citrus juice and Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate), usually after a brief fast. Many green, brown, yellow or black blobs of various sizes may later appear in the bowel movements. Some bear a slight resemblance to gallstones, but they are not stones. They are merely bile-stained "soaps" produced by partial saponification (soap formation) of the oil. A recent demonstration found that mixing equal volumes of oleic acid (the major component of olive oil) and lemon juice produced several semi-solid white balls after a small volume of potassium hydroxide solution was added. After air-drying at room temperature, these balls became quite solid and hard. When formed in the intestine, these objects absorb bile and become green [5]. It has also been shown that red dye will appear in the interior of the “stones” if consumed with the oil [1].

http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...s/flushes.html

But if they are small enough, a practitioner of chinese medicine or naturopath can sometimes prescribe herbs that will slowly dissolve the stones.

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

There isn't a gallbladder flush.

Gallbladder and liver "flushes" are widely advocated as a way of treating gallstones and helping with medical conditions ranging from allergies to cancer [1-4]. In the usual “flush,” half a cup or more of a vegetable oil is consumed together with citrus juice and Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate), usually after a brief fast. Many green, brown, yellow or black blobs of various sizes may later appear in the bowel movements. Some bear a slight resemblance to gallstones, but they are not stones. They are merely bile-stained "soaps" produced by partial saponification (soap formation) of the oil. A recent demonstration found that mixing equal volumes of oleic acid (the major component of olive oil) and lemon juice produced several semi-solid white balls after a small volume of potassium hydroxide solution was added. After air-drying at room temperature, these balls became quite solid and hard. When formed in the intestine, these objects absorb bile and become green [5]. It has also been shown that red dye will appear in the interior of the “stones” if consumed with the oil [1].

http://www.quackwatch.com/01Quackery...s/flushes.html

But if they are small enough, a practitioner of chinese medicine or naturopath can sometimes prescribe herbs that will slowly dissolve the stones.

You know I have read that. Because my first thought was the SAME thing. But then I read about it in many different places, why ti works, how it works, and I watched a couple of medical videos of gallstones/gallbladder removals. It is EXACTLY the same thing as gallstones. weight, amount, and look. not to mention the relief people have after the flushes.

that said, if I eat too much olive oil, I don't poop oil-stones. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but not in less than 24hrs I wouldn't think. HOWEVER, I there is a common belief that the Olive oil lubes the way for the gallstones, which is clearly not true b/c nothing food wise enters the gallbladder, the stones are actually cholesterol from what I can tell from medical texts. that's just a misunderstanding of the flush I think.

Quackwatch also disagrees with just about any alternative medicine such as AK (which worked wonders for me) and fighting cavities naturally (which I KNOW works). Actually usually when I see something on quackwatch it makes me want to believe it that much more b/c I've never read anything worthwhile on quackwatch. I think quackwatch is no more truthworthy than my grumpy old OB from years ago that told me I made myself get pre-E b/c I ate friend chicken too much (which I never ate). He was firm that was the only way I could have gotten it. why? who the heck knows? he just thought he knew it all b/c he was a doctor. he had no interest in learning the cause, cures and treatments of Pre-E... he was just interested in being right.

so yeah, I don't mean to beat up your assessment, but i need more than a "quackwatch" report to convince me. Perhaps some doctors who have tried it themselves and then sent the gallstones to the lab?... that might give me some belief. b/c the number of people who have found relief from it are amazing... they can't all be imagining it.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Well, Quackwatch does say there doesn't appear to be any harm in trying, and I've read on other sites (when I was also trying to deal with my own gallbladder issues naturally) that apple juice works just as well as citrus; can you do apple juice?

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

Well, Quackwatch does say there doesn't appear to be any harm in trying, and I've read on other sites (when I was also trying to deal with my own gallbladder issues naturally) that apple juice works just as well as citrus; can you do apple juice?

that's kinda what I figure - I don't KNOW it will work, but if it aint gonna hurt I'm willing to give it a try! I'm in a lot of discomfort.

I can't do any fruit actually - I'm allergic to fructose of all things. I know, ridiculous. It makes detoxes SO hard to do. I end up doing a lot of teas and what not, but it's just helping enough on it's own (unless there i one I don't know about!)

[Panserbjorne]

Have you tried (or are you open to trying) a drainage remedy? It would take longer, but it wouldn't involve a flush or other extreme measures. It would just be specific herbs in low potency (homeopathic preparation with physical material still present) to support the liver and gall bladder. Just another way to approach it. I hope you find some answers! That sounds uncomfortable.

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

Have you tried (or are you open to trying) a drainage remedy? It would take longer, but it wouldn't involve a flush or other extreme measures. It would just be specific herbs in low potency (homeopathic preparation with physical material still present) to support the liver and gall bladder. Just another way to approach it. I hope you find some answers! That sounds uncomfortable.

I am open to anything that is safe for my nursling!

I am taking milk thistle, dandelion root and beet.... what else more could help me?

My chiro gave me some oxbile so I just took one tonight. (I tried it months ago but it upset my son's belly... thought I would give it another go tonight since I was in a lot of discomfort)

thanks!

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by HennyPenny

But then I read about it in many different places, why ti works, how it works ...

For example?

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by Liquesce

For example?

I'm sorry I don't understand your question. Example of what?

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by HennyPenny

I'm sorry I don't understand your question. Example of what?

I meant what you were reading that was convincing.

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by Liquesce

I meant what you were reading that was convincing.

oh!! gotcha!

Well I wouldn't say it has me totally convinced... but i will say it made me think it was certainly worth trying.

First I googled it a found a surgery on youtube.com I have NO clue where they are though! I just wanted to see what a gallbladder surgery looked like and how it looked when it was dissected so I could get an idea what it is I was trying to "flush" or fix or what have you. Maybe you could just search youtube?

I also searched youtube and found a bunch of people talking about their flushes and showing the little pebble things afterwards and such. (again I just searched it)

and this site helped me understand the gallbladder a little more:

http://www.gallbladderattack.com/

and honestly i just read everything i could find on google pro and against the flush to see what people were saying. I found every opinion out there!

[Panserbjorne]

here are the ingredients in one drainage remedy specifically for gallstones:
Berb VulgD1+10C, Carduus MarD1+10C, ChelidoniumD1+10C, ChionanthusD2+20C, DioscoreaD1+10C, Fel TauriD2+20C, HydrastisD1+10C

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by HennyPenny

that's kinda what I figure - I don't KNOW it will work, but if it aint gonna hurt I'm willing to give it a try! I'm in a lot of discomfort.

I can't do any fruit actually - I'm allergic to fructose of all things. I know, ridiculous. It makes detoxes SO hard to do. I end up doing a lot of teas and what not, but it's just helping enough on it's own (unless there i one I don't know about!)

stumbled on this and had to ask, What happens if you eat some fruit (or fructose?)

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by newmum35

stumbled on this and had to ask, What happens if you eat some fruit (or fructose?)

I get a sudden and severe hypoglycemic reaction, intensely dizzy and then I throw up... and after that I end up with a migraine and a metallic taste in my mouth and usually i feel very itchy. It takes me a couple of hours to days to feel better (depending on how much I ingest) But I am really careful not to because the older i get the more severe a reaction I get... If I even smell and orange it starts, so I have to be really careful about it in things like shampoos and soaps and so forth.

For the record, no doctor or holistic practitioner has ever been able to explain this one to me. I *THINK* I might have an enzyme problem... but no OTC digestive enzyme has ever worked whatsoever so I gave up trying. it makes me entirely too sick to make it worth the hassle of trying.


does that help?

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

here are the ingredients in one drainage remedy specifically for gallstones:
Berb VulgD1+10C, Carduus MarD1+10C, ChelidoniumD1+10C, ChionanthusD2+20C, DioscoreaD1+10C, Fel TauriD2+20C, HydrastisD1+10C

thanks! I will look them up!

anything i need to be concerned with as far as nursing? I don't frequently use homeopathics, I tend towards herbs and such... so I don't know if it's nursing compatible.

[Panserbjorne]

100% compatible.

[stephienoodle]

HennyPenny,

My osteopath in Charlottesville does manipulations that work on the gallbladder. He and I were discussing it as he did some stuff to improve the flow of my liver/gallbladder/colon. He doesn't take insurance and is usually $75-100/visit, if that matters. He and the homeopath he works with are also helping deal with mine and my DS's digestive issues. PM me if you want his contact info.

I hope you find some relief!

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

100% compatible.

Thanks!

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by stephienoodle

HennyPenny,

My osteopath in Charlottesville does manipulations that work on the gallbladder. He and I were discussing it as he did some stuff to improve the flow of my liver/gallbladder/colon. He doesn't take insurance and is usually $75-100/visit, if that matters. He and the homeopath he works with are also helping deal with mine and my DS's digestive issues. PM me if you want his contact info.

I hope you find some relief!

Yes I am very interested! Does he deal with children/families? I'm looking for a holistic doctor to treat our family (we're not big on standard peds). We just moved here in the summer and am bummed we hadn't found anyone yet.

I have a daughter who is on the spectrum. Back in Pa (before we moved here) we say an Applied Kenisiologist (AK chiro) and we really liked him but they don't have any around here unfortunately.

so yes, please do send me the info! and tell me a little about his approach too if you don't mind!