Cultured buttermilk?

[Llyra]

I use a lot of this, because we make soaked biscuits and muffins and pancakes all the time. I've been buying it, which is absurd, because to get it organic and grass-fed I have to schlep all the way out to the Whole Foods. To get it closer to home, I have to get low-fat from the supermarket.

So I'm wondering if anybody's ever cultured it themselves?

I know how to make yogurt; I've been doing that for years. I'm assuming buttermilk is similar, right? So I use some buttermilk I bought to start the culture. Do you think this will work? I can't seem to find out what the ideal incubation temp is, though.

[ursusarctos]

I don't know the answer to your question, but a couple things came to mind.

Can you use soured raw milk? I have done this a couple times for soaked pancake batter and it worked well.

Also, low-fat for cultured buttermilk might not be such a bad thing. At least here in Finland, where the traditional diet included a ton of raw cultured dairy, buttermilk/sourmilk was often fatless/low fat because the cream was skimmed off to make butter. This made me feel a lot better about buying non-whole-milk sourmilk (which is the only kind I can get) - I realized in the traditional context I wouldn't necessarily have been getting BOTH whole milk products AND butter (which I use liberally), so the butter probably makes up for getting less fat in my milk sometimes.

[cristeen]

You can use storebought as starter and it cultures around room temp. It doesnt like the warm temp i use for yogurt.

I've never actually cultured milk w it, but i've used it for making creme fraiche. (w heavy cream).

[Magelet]

I make it all the time. (I don't want it with the type of low fat milk they use, or homogenized. traditionally skimmed milk wouldn't be bad though I usually use whole).

I stir in 2 tbs of commercial cultured buttermilk per quart of milk, and leave it in a slightly warm place (or room temp). Usually I put it on the back of my stove, which is warm from the pilot light. (1 tbs per pint)

It sets up kind of firm, but then you can stir it and it turns less set.

[choli]

I thought that "real" buttermilk was the liquid left over after cream was churned into butter. Wouldn't that by definition be very low fat?

But yes, soured raw milk works perfectly fine, that is what used to be used in Ireland to make soda bread. Do NOT try this with pasteurised milk, it spoils instead of souring.

[Llyra]

I have access to raw milk-- but at an exorbitant price, and I have to drive into Pennsylvania to get it. When we do have it, we drink it right up-- my kids suck it down like it's their last best hope. I wouldn't have any left over to sour. Plus, I need the buttermilk on an almost daily basis. So souring raw milk isn't going to be a daily solution for us-- but I will try it, when I have the chance.

The problem with the supermarket buttermilk milk isn't the low-fat part. It's that it's not organic, and comes from who-knows-where, from cows fed who-knows-what. Also the cost. I pay about $1 for a half gallon of milk, but about $4 for a quart of buttermilk. It would be so much cheaper to make it myself. That's why I started making my own yogurt, too.

The milk I have daily access to is pasteurized (not ultra-pasteurized) organic grass-fed milk, from a small local dairy. That's what I use for yogurt, too, so I'm going to try that.

Room temperature, you say, or maybe just above? Like bread-rising temperature? Okay, I can do that.

Do I need to scald the milk first, do you think?

[joanna0707]

Originally Posted by Llyra

we make soaked biscuits and muffins and pancakes all the time

OT
could you share your recipe for soaked muffins please

[choli]

From wikipedia: In recipes, soured milk created by the addition of an acid or by bacterial fermentation can often be used interchangeably. For example, 1 cup of cultured buttermilk, a soured milk produced by bacterial fermentation, can be replaced by 1 tablespoon of lemon juice or vinegar plus enough milk to make 1 cup. The chemically soured milk can be used after standing for 5 minutes.

[ursusarctos]

Originally Posted by choli

From wikipedia: In recipes, soured milk created by the addition of an acid or by bacterial fermentation can often be used interchangeably. For example, 1 cup of cultured buttermilk, a soured milk produced by bacterial fermentation, can be replaced by 1 tablespoon of lemon juice or vinegar plus enough milk to make 1 cup. The chemically soured milk can be used after standing for 5 minutes.

Interesting. I just can't imagine the artificially soured milk being as good or healthy as the bacterially soured though. I wonder if it would raise pancakes/breads in the same way either?

[choli]

Originally Posted by ursusarctos

Interesting. I just can't imagine the artificially soured milk being as good or healthy as the bacterially soured though. I wonder if it would raise pancakes/breads in the same way either?

It raises in the same way because it is the chemical reaction of acidity with baking soda that creates the rising action,whether the acidity is caused by bacterial action or by adding vinegar or lemon juice.

I've had the same results making Irish brown bread whether using sour raw milk, fresh cultured buttermilk, or powdered buttermilk.

As for the health aspect, I really don't know. I suspect that once heated the bacteria are killed and so have little health giving properties.

[Magelet]

I never scald the milk first when culturing buttermilk, I just stir it in cold. no fuss no muss. That's why I like it, the commercial stuff is full of crap and expensive and homemade only has that smidge of the crap and is cheaper.

I think that using bacterially cultured buttermilk is probably better for you than chemically soured milk, even though the bacteria are killed. Before the bacteria are killed, they help pre-digest the milk making it more digestible.

[ursusarctos]

Wait, is supermarket buttermilk/sourmilk different in the US? (I'm from there but haven't drunk American buttermilk for quite a while) At least here I was under the impression that regular pasteurized milk is cultured with special bacteria, which are not killed after the culturing - sort of like yogurt.

choli, interesting - I was wondering if it was just the acidity, that makes sense.

[littlest birds]

Ursu, I think she was referring to heating it when used in a baking recipe. The bacteria are killed before we eat it, then.

[Llyra]

Well, I'm trying it. It's sitting on the table in the corner of the dining room, which is a nice warm spot. That's where I put bread to rise, too. I've been opening it every few hours to smell it and look at the consistency-- so far it's thickened just a bit, and has a faint sour smell. I'm waiting to see if the smell strengthens-- until it smells like what I buy at the store. I keep going back and forth between it and the buttermilk already in the fridge, to compare. So we'll see.

[Llyra]

Originally Posted by joanna0707

OT
could you share your recipe for soaked muffins please

I don't really have a recipe. Well, I guess when I started making them, I did, but now I just wing it. I put two and a half cups of flour in a bowl, and then put enough buttermilk on it to make a very thick, dryish dough. Then I mix in a quarter cup of honey, too. I leave that overnight. In the morning, I add an egg, some melted butter or coconut oil, two teaspoons of aluminum-free baking powder, a teaspoon of baking soda, and a pinch of salt, plus whatever fruit/flavoring we're using. Then I look at the consistency, and add milk if needed to get the right texture of batter.

We make mostly blueberry/vanilla ones, or apple/raisin/cinnamon, or cranberry/walnut/orange peel. Sometimes I'll puree some pumpkin or squash and use some of that in there, too-- I usually don't need extra milk, then.

[joanna0707]

Llyra, thanks a lot, I'll try your recipe this week

[Llyra]

Originally Posted by joanna0707

Llyra, thanks a lot, I'll try your recipe this week

BTW, it's about six tablespoons of butter, I think. The butter comes in half-pound packages, and I use about a third of that. If you like the muffins sweet, you can use more honey. And if want, you can use two eggs-- that'll change the texture a bit, make them cake-ier. I like them both ways, actually.

[ursusarctos]

Originally Posted by littlest birds

Ursu, I think she was referring to heating it when used in a baking recipe. The bacteria are killed before we eat it, then.

Ooooh Of course!

[JElaineB]

If you want specific directions on making cultured buttermilk this site is good: http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser...BUTTERMILK.htm. You can reculture from the stuff you make for quite a long time, as long as you reculture regularly (every couple weeks or so).

[Llyra]

Originally Posted by JElaineB

If you want specific directions on making cultured buttermilk this site is good: http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser...BUTTERMILK.htm. You can reculture from the stuff you make for quite a long time, as long as you reculture regularly (every couple weeks or so).

Thank you! That's great information. I had a success-- it cultured for 24 hours, and now it's in the fridge. I have yet to use it-- wanted to use up some older buttermilk first. But DH had a cupful of it last night and said it tasted just exactly right, and it smells just right, so it must be right. Gonna make cranberry-walnut muffins today, to try it.