bedtime is war!

[girlndocs]

We do this kind of semi-co-sleeping thing where ds (5) gets tucked into his own bed each night, then wakes up usually about 3 or 4 am and crawls in our king bed (the baby sleeps with us all night, of course). So far, so good. But for several months now bedtime's become this extended battle that almost always ends up with either me or DH stomping into ds' room and screaming at him because we just can't take it anymore.

We go through his bedtime rituals and he gets tucked in quietly enough. DH and I usually retire into our bedroom to read or talk. 10 minutes later or so it starts.

"DAD? ARE YOU AWAKE??"

Or, "MOM, I LOVE YOU." Or, "IS THE BABY ASLEEP?" or any other @!%& thing to elicit a reaction from us. If we answer, he'll do it again 10 minutes later. And I'm sorry, but when my hubby and I get a few measly minutes of time to talk at night, I am not going to spend it carrying on a long-distance conversation with my son.

If we ignore it -- or are asleep! -- he gets louder and louder until he's screaming at the top of his lungs (but still calmly repeating the same phrase -- I'm not talking about a panicked child here). Then he starts pounding on the wall between our bedrooms. We've often been woken up like this at 3 am! I would hesitate to label it "manipulation" but it's quite clear that this is a purposeful strategy to keep us awake to "keep him company".

Now I accept that he 's probably lonely alone in his room. I feel for him, honestly, if that's the case, but we tried family bedding from bedtime on and it so does not work for us. Ds is all over the place until long after we need to be asleep. At least until this stuff started every night, he went to sleep fairly well in is room. It seemed like a win-win situation.

Is it so unrealistic to expect that a 5 year old realize it's not OK to deprive his parents of sleep? I try to GD and a cornerstone of my efforts has been emphasizing consideration of others. He has a right to feel lonely, and to be sad, but I have a right to adequate sleep (so I can be a stable, patient, un-depressed parent for him during the day!)

The question is, how do I get it?

[mamaduck]

Is it so unrealistic to expect that a 5 year old realize it's not OK to deprive his parents of sleep?

Probably! At least, it seems to be unrealistic in your situation ayway. I really think you'd all be happier if you drastically change your approach. Can you lie in bed with him until he falls asleep? Or can your DH? How long does it take him to fall asleep if he has company? Are you waiting to put him down until he is ready to sleep?

Another idea to try is playing story tapes for him to listen to as he falls asleep. Jim Weiss is an excellent story teller, and his tapes/CDs are long and relaxing.

[monkey's mom]

Can you move his bed into your room? Or put a mattress in there for him--next to or near your bed?

[pamelamama]

We brought our four year old Sam's old toddler bed into our room and he now sleeps in there. He never co-slept but stayed in his own room since about two months old. I will say he always loved his own room, his own bed, his *space* and it always worked fine.

Untill... We've been cosleeping with our new baby, now over a year. We moved into a new house. Sam was doing the same kind of thing... yelling out from his room to get someone to come in. "Dad how do you like my mobile" at three am! We were concerned about possible sleep apnea, so we invited him to sleep in our room for a while. He's been in there ever since.

Would you consider a temporary arrangement like this. Maybe a sleeping bag?

I admit to loving having the whole family together at night WITHOUT actually having us all squoooshed in the same bed.

xoxo ramblin' pam

[Britishmum]

My first thought was how tough it must be to know that the baby is with mum and dad, and not you. (I presume that's where the baby is?)

It sounds to me that he's feeling lonely and missing you. Can you put his bed in your room? Or one of you lie down with him until he goes off to sleep? I understand that the family sleep didnt work for you, but clearly this arrangement isnt working for him. And at five, he really is still a baby himself.

I'd be concerned that I was setting up potential resentment of the younger sibling if he feels lonely and knows that the baby isn't. I know that my dd won't be ready for her own room at 5, and probalby not until her younger sister wants to go too. She just hates being alone, and needs another body to snuggle up to and talk to if she's awake (even if her sister is asleep, she'll keep on chatting or singing to her!)

Hope you find a solution that helps your ds and makes your life easier.

[girlndocs]

I've been thinking about it (OK, obsessing :P) and I really think the best bet would be to try inviting ds into our bed again. Sometimes when he's sick and miserable we let him sleep all night in the big bed, and it hasn't killed anybody yet ... so we'll survive somehow. I have a feeling if he feels like he's still welcome in our bed ... not excluded from where everyone else in the family sleeps ... he'll feel secure enough after a while to go back to his bed on his own. Especially since he has a new "big brother" bunk bed! Hmm, might be a good idea to kinda subtly hype that up :P I really don't want him to feel like everyone but him gets to snuggle up at night while he's lonely. That must be awful.

I'd thought of the same-room-different-mattress thing too, but our room barely has enough space for bed, dresser and a walking aisle around them. And ds' room is even smaller, so swapping rooms wouldn't work either. Sigh.

Now I just have to convince DH. That makes it sound like DH is anti-family-bed or something, but he's not ... but I think there's a lot of resentment there about all the sleep he's lost already and I have a feeling I'll have to listen to a lot of complaining. Plus, he'll ask where we'll fool around, and he'll have a point -- we don't have a couch and the floor is hard! LOL!

[girlndocs]

nak

update!

i started ds off in our bed a couple weeks ago when dh was working night shift for a buncha days (he works a rotating schedule that flips between days n nights). told him he could sleep in our bed all night, with the proviso of considerate behavior towards the rest of us who also wanted sleep, n whenever he wanted to spend a night in his big kid bunk bed he could do that, too. so he spent 4 nights in our bed. he went to sleep fine n i made sure to relate this to dh, approvingly, in ds' presence.

then dh started a block of day shifts n each night when ds would ask 'can i sleep in your bed without falling asleep in my bed first?' dh would tell him 'not tonight'. i was fuming because how did he expect ds to really feel like he wasn't being excluded if he kept being put off like that? but to my surprise each time ds would accept without any whining or bitching n fall asleep in his own bed without a speck of trouble. after a bit he didnt even ask about it anymore.

so 2 nights ago dh started night shifts again n ds asked to sleep in our bed again. i said sure. ds said, 'only when daddy's not here at night i sleep in your bed without falling asleep in my bed first. when daddy's home at night i sleep in my bed first.'

i said, 'well, sure, if you want to.' ds said, 'yup'.

that thudding sound is my jaw dropping. the poor kid needed so little just to feel like he wasnt being left out.