So, what is fair to ask to get?

[VisionaryMom]

I'm starting a new thread about DS because the other was specific to my thoughts on grade-skipping.

I chatted at length with DS last night. He swears he's not doing any math at school, but then he started singing a counting song. I asked where he heard it, and he said that they learned it. So, further probing, and I realize they've put him back into the "big group" where they're practicing counting to 10. No, no, no. I'm not okay with that! He's counted to 10 for, I don't even know, 3 years or so. He can add, subtract, multiply, divide, do simple equations. So, DH (who is really, really reluctant to "make waves" on differentiation) agreed that we need to speak to DS' teacher (not that I wasn't going to anyway, but I'm glad DH is on board). It finally hit DH that if they force him to do "kindergarten" math, then they're stunting his math development at school by years, and that's not a good situation.

So, I anticipate being told that they don't have anywhere to put him. Groups of 4 teachers divide up their kids based on ability for small group instruction in math & reading, and I'm guessing they don't know where to put DS. I will take in math work he's done at home, but I'd like to have some ideas for them. He said one day that someone took him out to do some math just with her, but it was just single-digit addition.

[loraxc]

Are you sure counting to 10 is really what they're doing? DD's K seemed to be a lot less academic than most, and they did counting to 100, backwards counting, and skip counting by 2s, 5s, and 10s. Which still may not be adequate--wasn't for DD--but that sounds really slow-paced. Does he bring anything home?

I'm not sure what to advise, though. We sent in some homemade math workbooks for DD to do during "folder time" when they do leveled work independently, but she is in first.

I'm also confused about the "big group" vs the small ones you talk about? It seems clear that he should be in the highest small group. That may be the best you can do in K.

[kathymuggle]

Does he have an IEP or an IPRC?

I am not sure if IPRC is the correct terminology for the United States - but essentially you want a legally binding document listing him as gifted.

I wanted one for my DD because I wanted there to be document I could refer back to if the teachers were not differentiating as they need to. I am still not sure they are differentiating in the way my DD needs - but at least I have a document that says you must provide differentiation.

If you do not have such a document you will be at the whim of your advocacy skills (a somewhat controllable factor) and the willingness of the teacher to differentiate (non-controllable factor).

I have 3 children. I have tried advocating for one child without papers and got no-where; I have tried for one with test scores, etc, and the process has been much easier.

Paperwork plug aside, and for this year:

Have you spoken to the teacher at all? If she does not know he can do more, she will not differentiate. There are free or close to free inhouse tests the school could do to determine level. Sort of like benchmark tests with reading - but for math.

Once you have some proof that the math is too easy for him you can take it from there. Find out what your son wants - is he happy at school? does he miss doing more challenging work? what does he feel about doing different math in a different room?.

ideas:
- supplement at home
-in class differentiation. May be easiest if you send in work
-single subject acceleration

Good luck!

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by loraxc

Are you sure counting to 10 is really what they're doing? DD's K seemed to be a lot less academic than most, and they did counting to 100, backwards counting, and skip counting by 2s, 5s, and 10s. Which still may not be adequate--wasn't for DD--but that sounds really slow-paced. Does he bring anything home?

.

I think it is highly variable - the goal here is to count to 30 by the end of K. Not sure about skip counting.

[VisionaryMom]

[QUOTE=loraxc;15996957]Are you sure counting to 10 is really what they're doing? DD's K seemed to be a lot less academic than most, and they did counting to 100, backwards counting, and skip counting by 2s, 5s, and 10s. Which still may not be adequate--wasn't for DD--but that sounds really slow-paced. Does he bring anything home?

They're only counting by 1s to 10. He did a little booklet last week with it.

Originally Posted by loraxc

I'm also confused about the "big group" vs the small ones you talk about? It seems clear that he should be in the highest small group. That may be the best you can do in K.

We homeschooled until recently, so I don't know how it got sorted at the beginning of the year. He was put into the highest small group, but that still was really basic stuff - not even adding yet, but doing "which picture has more?". He was pulled from that group, did the individual assessment, and now is in with the "big group," which I think is just the largest number of students.

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Does he have an IEP or an IPRC?

I am not sure if IPRC is the correct terminology for the United States - but essentially you want a legally binding document listing him as gifted.

I do not think our state has Gifted IEPs, but I will re-check. I looked into it a year or so ago, and I don't think there's anything 'official' we can do.

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Have you spoken to the teacher at all? If she does not know he can do more, she will not differentiate. There are free or close to free inhouse tests the school could do to determine level. Sort of like benchmark tests with reading - but for math.

I haven't. I spoke with the assistant principal at length when we decided to enroll from homeschooling. He sounded really open to differentiation, and we agreed that we'd give it some time to see what he could do. I think, though, that DS has tapped out what they have ready-made for differentiation. I'm not sure there's a plan beyond moving K students to the highest Gr 1 group.

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Find out what your son wants - is he happy at school? does he miss doing more challenging work? what does he feel about doing different math in a different room?.

He's angry because he said they're making him read "all the time!" but not letting him do any math. They've put him in a Gr 1 reading group, and he says that he's happy there. He brings home little books to read and return, and he brings home some writing work. They really don't bring home much math, so it is hard to tell exactly.

I'm planning to email his teacher or send in a note. You can't really catch them in the mornings. The kiddos go to the gym to wait before the bell. I'm hoping we'll be able to meet with her soon, but I want to know what I'd like first.

I have considered paying for outside testing. We don't mind doing that if it will help, but I'll have to look into it more.

[MJB]

I have noticed that there is a lot less differentiation in math than reading, unfortunately. My 2nd grader is typically developing but good at math, and math has been too easy for him every year in school. He can add/subtract with regrouping, multiply, divide, etc. and his class is still doing addition and subtraction without regrouping. It's frustrating to me but I have never gotten anywhere when asking for more challenging math. He literally learned nothing in 1st grade math and I won't be surprised if he learns nothing in math this year. I've spent two years asking for differentiation and all he's ever gotten is extra work on the same too-easy level (no thanks!)
My gifted kindergartner is actually not very advanced in math so I've chosen to focus on getting him appropriate reading instruction. On his first report card "count to 10" was one skill and they just wrote "to 100" next to it, and marked a few other things where they know he can do more than they are looking for. They don't seem to do much math in his class anyway. He can definitely count by 10s, 5s, and 2s already. I know they are learning the different types of coins and doing basic addition, subtraction, estimating, etc.

[loraxc]

We also had better luck with reading differentiation. It's too bad, because reading enrichment comes naturally at home for many kids, but math is a bit less natural to include. I do do some stuff with DD at home. We also got her this:

http://www.flashmaster.com

which she enjoys, and I don't have to sit with her. I wish I had time to do more. She would benefit.

[VisionaryMom]

He does a lot of math at home for fun - logic puzzles & the like. He also has a workbook for improving addition and subtraction speed. I'm sure he has holes in his knowledge, partly because the way early math is taught isn't necessarily a logical progression. (How can you "count money" if you don't understand addition?) I just hate the idea of him sitting through an hour of math (acc. to their schedule) that's so far below where he's working.

[cyncyn]

Originally Posted by MJB

I have noticed that there is a lot less differentiation in math than reading, unfortunately.

I am finding this to be true also. DD told me the other day that the kids do math separated by grade (she is in a 3-4-5 blend) so she is doing the 3rd grade math. She also told me that she finished a code breaker math paper first out of all four 3-4-5 classes; she was the first one out at recess so she was happy about that! So I am planning to talk to the teacher at conference time about allowing dd access to the other grade's math studies. The other subjects are more integrated and she is able to accelerate easier.

Do you have a conference period coming up with report card, progress report etc.? I think talking to the teacher would help clarify what they can do for your ds in class. DD did enjoy K even if the work was too easy. She only got upset when she was punished for finishing early and talking.

[chaimom]

I think it would be helpful for you to show the teacher your son's ability-- whether that's through workbooks he does, or by bringing him in and having a demonstration. It's pretty hard to ignore that way.

That's what I did with my daughter and her teacher. I had told the teacher before school started that she can read (she's in pre-K), and the teacher assured me she would get the appropriate instruction. But at our conference last week, I found out my dd's reading group consists of finding letters on a page! My daughter was with me, so I called her over to the desk and asked her to read a little book that was on the desk. When my dd finished the book, the teacher said, "Well. It's been many years since I've had an actual reader in pre-k. I guess I'll find out when the reading groups are in the K class and send her over there for reading." (She probably needs 1st grade reading, but at least it's a start.) The teacher obviously hadn't believed me-- so I'm "that mom" to her! But I don't care.

I don't think kids should be pushed at this age, but asking them to "learn" things they've known for years is asking for behavior and attitude problems. I think it's appropriate to advocate for your son-- and assume the teachers will earnestly try to do what's right.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by chaimom

I don't think kids should be pushed at this age, but asking them to "learn" things they've known for years is asking for behavior and attitude problems.

Yes. This is my concern. He's very tied to the green light, yellow light, red light system they use, and I know that going off "green" will be devastating for him. At the same time, he's started saying, "the other kids can't remember things, and we have to say them over and over," which I know is a sign that he's starting to get restless with the repetition. I feel in a sense, too, that being an active boy makes that worse and eventually leads to a push for an ADD diagnosis because he doesn't "pay attention."

[Freeman]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom

Yes. This is my concern. He's very tied to the green light, yellow light, red light system they use, and I know that going off "green" will be devastating for him. At the same time, he's started saying, "the other kids can't remember things, and we have to say them over and over," which I know is a sign that he's starting to get restless with the repetition. I feel in a sense, too, that being an active boy makes that worse and eventually leads to a push for an ADD diagnosis because he doesn't "pay attention."

I know what you mean. I have an active & talkative first-grader who doesn't really have to pay attention at school in order to do the work. He tends to finish work quickly, breeze through more work, and still have time to talk. Sigh. Like you, I am trying to figure out what to ask for at school.