When it's "too late" to apply for special programs...

[Mackenzie]

So, we had conferences for our boys last night. We always knew that the youngest was of a higher aptitude than his age/grade level but we did not realize how much so (compared to his grade level peers at school) and we did not realize that our older son is of a significant higher aptitude than his peers, we had always thought that he was doing well, but basically average (reason for our ignorance of these things, communication from the school is ridiculously poor and honestly we don't really know what "normal" is for their grade levels...)

We went over what is expected at their respective grades and they are both well exceeding those. Nothing so far has been a challenge for them and Pickles (the first grader) is a designated "peer tutor" for his class. Teacher says that while she has a few that are, he is the only one that has the ability to TEACH the other students HOW to do things as opposed to giving the students the answer. Similar information was given to us about Dami (4th grader).

We have been tossing around ideas for other options because we haven't been real happy with their school for several reasons but we didn't know about how their actual education (esp for Dami) was factoring in. Now that we are more aware of this, we want to make sure that it stays this way and so we are thinking more seriously about alternatives...However, since gifted/talented is a new factor, we are kind of unsure of what options there are.

Of course, looking at the gifted/talented program within the school district seems like an obvious place to start. Well it turns out that the application window is sept 1-oct 15 for the following year. That is kind of frustrating because we don't meet with the teacher until the end of october...

We are considering private school but there is the cost factor. The preferable one in the area (aka secular) is well out of our price range. There is financial aid available but you don't get to know how much until you apply, which would cost us 150.00 just for the boys (older DD is in the application process for the gifted/talented program with the district for art. If she did not get in, which is likely based on space as the program starts at 4th grade and kids who are already in the program are automatically allowed a spot, so spaces are slim for 7th) and we would want DD there also if it does not work out with the Arts school here. I am not sure if we would be able to swing it even with financial aid, unless they cover a sizable portion of it.

My mom is (and has been for Pickles) suggesting requesting having them advanced a grade. I am not sure that is the best solution for a couple of reasons.

My spouse is thinking that if nothing else proves to be a viable option, then we should look into something like Kumon. I don't know much about it, his younger sister goes there and their dad is a professor and he (sean) is fairly certain that it is a decent program if it meets his dad's approval. Again, cost would likely be a factor, I am sure...


I just really don't know and would love any advice or input you guys may have...

[SleeplessMommy]

application window is sept 1-oct 15 for the following year.

There has to be some flexibility with this. what if a kid moves in from out of the area? Find some other parents with kids in the gifted program. ask around. check your state dept of education web site. Sometimes, a written request for evaluation/testing/services will have work better than email or verbal. you can get your kid into the program somehow.

My state (PA) does a gifted iep (giep) and there are laws pertaining to gifted education, the school is legally obligated to provide services once a child is identified. In 1st we had some problems getting services and requested a giep review meeting. Suddenly services were provided, immediately! "Giep review meeting" was the magic words.

[Mackenzie]

EXACTLY! We are that family too. We were in a different state, homeschooling, year before last, they started public school last year in a different district in this state, and brand new to the district. So we REALLY had no clue of options... *sigh*

[serenbat]

Quote:
application window is sept 1-oct 15 for the following year.
There has to be some flexibility with this. what if a kid moves in from out of the area? Find some other parents with kids in the gifted program. ask around. check your state dept of education web site. Sometimes, a written request for evaluation/testing/services will have work better than email or verbal. you can get your kid into the program somehow.

My state (PA) does a gifted iep (giep) and there are laws pertaining to gifted education, the school is legally obligated to provide services once a child is identified. In 1st we had some problems getting services and requested a giep review meeting. Suddenly services were provided, immediately! "Giep review meeting" was the magic words.

YES!!

and your first call should be to set up a meeting to have your child (or both placed into the program) and IF you decide to move to another school setting that can come later, this should have no baring on moving within your current school but I would push ASAP for a meeting and get into the program- as stated cut off states really mean nothing don't let them say no, you can use the "what if a student just moved?" and really ask question WHY the teacher did not push for this and why you have your teacher meeting after the date?

[Mackenzie]

That is what I am going to do for a start then. I sent a text to my spouse when I found the info and he says the same...

Do you guys think that is the best (permanent-ish) option as well?

[emmaegbert]

Originally Posted by Mackenzie

We are considering private school but there is the cost factor. The preferable one in the area (aka secular) is well out of our price range. There is financial aid available but you don't get to know how much until you apply, which would cost us 150.00 just for the boys (older DD is in the application process for the gifted/talented program with the district for art. If she did not get in, which is likely based on space as the program starts at 4th grade and kids who are already in the program are automatically allowed a spot, so spaces are slim for 7th) and we would want DD there also if it does not work out with the Arts school here. I am not sure if we would be able to swing it even with financial aid, unless they cover a sizable portion of it.

I don't have specific advice for what is best for you and your kids, but just wanted to respond based on my recent experience. My DS is at private school on financial aid (very significant level). He is thriving and we are just thrilled. I would suggest that you at least take the option seriously.

Start by talking directly to the school (call up the admissions director), as well as asking around if you can to other families (though, remember that other families may not know who is receiving aid and at what level). You should tour the school before you apply anyway. On the tour or privately, ask about their tuition assistance program. Also ask about differentiation and how they handle different learning styles. And, of course, ask open-ended questions about the other things you care about (discipline? free play? phys ed?). If you love the school and it seems like a great fit for your kids and your family, then go ahead and ask if they will pro-rate the application fee if $150 is really too much for you to pay. Or maybe, at that point, $150 is not actually that much to spend, since you really love the school. If they will not accept your kids b/c you asked that question, then the school is probably not a good fit for you anyway, ykwim?

Good luck!

As for deadlines-- I agree with everyone. Don't just accept them, keep asking about the options. You may have to push a little, but all with the goal-- which everyone really ought to share anyway-- of getting the most appropriate education for your kids.

[Mackenzie]

That information helps a lot. We can squeeze the money for the applications out if we need to, and knowing that there is a chance to get a substantial portion covered can be an even slight possibility makes it seem like a less irresponsible thing than throwing the money away on a near impossibility... if that makes sense.

[ollyoxenfree]

Deadlines are a useful tool for schools to try to organize the admission process. They may not be enforced rigidly. If they are, it's often because the program is in high demand and it's at maximum capacity. If that's the case, then it's always worthwhile to ask if there is a wait list, since you never know what can happen. People decide a program isn't a good fit or they move away and a spot can open up.

[ChristaN]

Another thing to consider is what the gifted program in your district consists of. If it looks like a lot of school GT programs, it may or may not be sufficient for your boys depending on their LOG (level of giftedness). I'd certainly start with putting in a written request for a school evaluation and placement in the program if they qualify noting that you were not made aware of the program and the application deadline until late October.

I might also consider private IQ testing if the school's assessment consists of group ability testing like the OLSAT or CogAT in that these types of tests are not intelligence tests. They do correlate with IQ for many people, but gifted kids may not test as well on those types of tests as they do on individually administered IQ tests.

The school GT programming may be a reasonable solution if it is a full-time program and/or if it has options for kids at various LOG and isn't just a pull-out for high achievers. Other possibilities include homeschooling, applying for financial aid at a private school if there is a school with very small class sizes and a lot of individualization, a charter school, subject acceleration (where they are sent to a higher grade level for some subjects), or grade skipping. We have tried all but the private schooling at some point in time. We did find the subject acceleration and grade skipping to be the best fit for dd12 among the school options.

Programs like Kumon are probably fine for a supplement if your boys don't mind extra work. My dd10 is of the opinion that it is unfair to have extra work just b/c the school work is inappropriate, however. If you are going to go the route of something like that, I might consider Stanford's EPGY program over Kumon and requesting that your boys be allowed to work independently on it with a computer with headphones during school hours in replacement of other curricula rather than adding more on at the end of the day.

[Linda on the move]

I agree about advocating for gifted placement inspite of missed the deadline. I would do so in writing, in a real letter with a date and a signature. It would be a nice letter, but it would be VERY clear. There's no reason to wait. I would advocated for placement in the gifted program starting THIS YEAR. It's really no different than a sn child -- once you figure out what is going on, there's no reason to wait on providing what they need.

Second, I would talk to the private school in a off-the record kind of way. My kids go to a private school and money is very tight for them. Enrollment is down because of the economy and the little financial aid they can offer is currenlty limited to families who've paid for the school in the past who've had changes and can no longer afford it. I'm not trying to be discouraging, just honest.

Rather than Kumon, which seems to be to be drills on core skills, why not invest in enrichment classes? See what the zoo, museums, etc. in your area offer. Getting kids involved in *fun* things where they learn seems better to me than more worksheets. The private school my kids attend does things like gardening, animal care (they have goats and chickens), art, photography, hands on science, tons of field trips, etc. I think that a board based education such as this is more desireable for a gifted (or any) child than one that simply pushed doing more complex math than their peers.