50-50 joint custody?- UPDATE: Help with post #6?

[SummerLove]

STBX and i are going to start writing up our divorce and custody.. we both want 50-50 and I am wondering how you would lay that out.... I think what we've agreed on is that he will still watch the kids while i am at school, i'll be with them while he is at work, and DS1 will spend half the week with him and half with me (maybe like 3 with him, 4 with me)..DS2 is still nursing and we've agreed that for now he'll only spend one weekend night with him until he weans.

also, right now there is no way he can afford any kind of child support if he is moving into his own place. Is there somewhere I can address this, that I would get financially support if his income increases?

advice?

[Smithie]

I believe state laws vary as to whether support is payable in a 50/50 physical custody situation. Some states have the higher-earning parent paying, and some don't.

Sine you and your STBX seem able to talk to each other like rational human beings (congratulations!), I'd suggest that you get a mediator to hammer out the details of your divorce, including future income issues if applicable for your state, and to help you prepare the paperwork.

Remember, unless you enjoy the idea of writing HIM a check if you are a high earner someday, it may be best just to stipulate that you'll both go halves on all major child-related expenses (music lessons, braces etc.). It really boils down to - do you absolutely trust him to chip in fairly on the costs associated with the lifestyle your child deserves? If you DON'T, then I'd fight like hell for primary physical custody, even if just 60/40, because that carries with it the presumption of financial support, and if he won't buy anything of his own free will then you'll at least have the option of earning the $$ for necessities all by yourself and then using the CS money for luxuries like extracurriculars.

Honestly, it's not your problem if he can or can't afford to pay support. Don't let him make it your problem. This is the beauty of divorce - you do not have to engage emotionally with that kind of thing. If the court orders support, then he'll pay it or he'll dig himself a great big hole - and the same goes for you, if the court should ever order you to pay support.

[SummerLove]

Thanks for the advice Smithie According to the paperwork I've started online, it looks like he would owe me $388 a month, and I am just going to keep that in there, and maybe give him a couple months of not paying it so that he can find a place (It's important to me he is able to stay here in town so that we both have access to our children. If he had to move in with a family member, he would be too far away to have joint custody).

[Goodmom2008]

Your state may not allow you to waive child support. And it may not matter how much parenting time he has in some states, he would be ordered to pay a set amount of his income. In states that take parenting time into consideration, the amount he is ordered to pay will be lower. A judge MAY sign off on any amount that the two of you agree to.

Or may take into consideration that he will have them half the time and will allow the waiving of child support (child support is always modifiable, within state guidelines, but you can file for it at anytime if there is no order). I would definitely address how medical costs are going to be split. Even if threre is no child support order, you shouldn't be expected to shoulder this all by yourself.

The one thing I would not do, if child support is waived, is take on more the expense. When your stbx has the kids, he is the one who pays for their food, their activities (I would also address how any extracurricular activities are handled, it will be hard to change when they are older), and needs to provide clothes at his place for them (this will actually make it easier for both of you as you won't have to pack a bag and he won't have to make sure everything is returned). If you provide all of that for him, he will essentially be getting out of his share of financially supporting the kids.

FYI, the courts generally don't care what his expenses are, their concern is with the kids.

[Super~Single~Mama]

If your son is only going to be spending one night with him a week, thats not considered 50-50 by the court. Thats you with primary custody.

You didn't say how old your ds is, but keep in mind that if you waive support it might be hard to get eventually (although, now that I think about it, probably not, you just wouldn't be entitled to any back support).

Kids are expensive - find out what exactly waiving support MEANS - does it mean waiving help with medical expenses, school expenses? I don't know - I wouldn't waive unless I had the financial ability to provide for both of us long term without help.

[SummerLove]

Well, I wrote up the divorce and custody up (online service), and it makes you list the income and has no where of waiving any child support. With both of us splitting 50-50 I would still be getting $220 a month child support. He seams OK with that. Yes, our baby (16 months) is not yet 50-50, but he will be when he is 2.

It says with joint physical and legal custody that we will share all related expenses, including education, medical, clothes, etc. So I think that part is covered.

The only thing that has become an issue with the divorce agreement is the term "custodial parent"- can anyone explain this when we both have custody? My understanding is that I am the "custodial parent" because I am the one receiving the child support. But he is afraid that this term is going to bite him in the a$$ later and now doesn't want to file/sign because he thinks it will allow me to claim full custody.

He wants to hire an attorney because of the "custodial" parent wording on the child support and I'm afraid that if he does that he is going to fight for full custody instead. (Really, I am trying to be so amicable because I am afraid he is going to try to take the kids from me... he's been accusing me of being a neglectful and unfit mother since I asked for a divorce- which I am sure is stemming from his anger with the situation, but I'm not- of course!)

[JBaxter]

We handled that by naming me custodial parent of ds1 and X custodial parent of ds2. I claim ds1 and X claims ds2 on the taxes. We share 50-50 custody. Sounds like you are on the same page of parenting X and I were not ( well had to do with XH wife wanting to become the new mother and the kids resenting that). I know it can work but with us it probably wasnt the best idea.

[Smithie]

If you are afraid of your STBX trying to get full custody of two very young children, one of them still nursing, then you. need. a. lawyer. right. now.

You'll notice how he's not afraid of you and the crazy, cruel, bad-for-the-kids stuff that you might do if he dares to assert himself. That's a serious power imbalance. You need help.

Honestly (and I thought this before you posted your update), I'd go into this opposing any overnights for a child who is still nursing. That's putting a kid through an avoidable trauma just to gratify his NCP. A lawyer can advise you on what's common in your area.

Worrying about where he'll live or if he'll have to move is, again, making his problems yours. Don't play that game. If daily access to his kids is his priority, then he'll find a place he can afford that's reasonably close (housemates or such). If it's not, then it's not and your primary custody may develop into de facto full physical custody if his visitation trails off. That would be a sad outcome for your kids, but it would NOT BE YOUR FAULT. If he wants to be involved in their daily care, it's clear that you are not trying to oppose that. Far from it. It would be better for the kids to go to daycare during the day than to be with a dad who doesn't actually want that level of involvement, but insisted on the arrangement so he could score points/maintain control/whatvertheheck.

Lawyer. Find one. A custody agreement that's bad for your kids is going to cause you years of pain.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by SummerLove

Well, I wrote up the divorce and custody up (online service), and it makes you list the income and has no where of waiving any child support. With both of us splitting 50-50 I would still be getting $220 a month child support. He seams OK with that. Yes, our baby (16 months) is not yet 50-50, but he will be when he is 2.

It says with joint physical and legal custody that we will share all related expenses, including education, medical, clothes, etc. So I think that part is covered.

The only thing that has become an issue with the divorce agreement is the term "custodial parent"- can anyone explain this when we both have custody? My understanding is that I am the "custodial parent" because I am the one receiving the child support. But he is afraid that this term is going to bite him in the a$$ later and now doesn't want to file/sign because he thinks it will allow me to claim full custody.

He wants to hire an attorney because of the "custodial" parent wording on the child support and I'm afraid that if he does that he is going to fight for full custody instead. (Really, I am trying to be so amicable because I am afraid he is going to try to take the kids from me... he's been accusing me of being a neglectful and unfit mother since I asked for a divorce- which I am sure is stemming from his anger with the situation, but I'm not- of course!)

re the last paragraph: is he abusive? If so, DO NOT SETTLE for 50-50. DO NOT do it!

Since you are trying to appease him, I would stop and REALLY think about what you're doing - is this what you think is BEST for your children? Or are you just doing it to avoid a fight?

If you think its BEST, then go ahead. If you're doing it to avoid a fight, STOP, get a LAWYER, and go to court. Fight to be the primary parent.

It's worth it. A good lawyer is WORTH his/her keep. Truly. I know from experience. I was TERRIFIED I was going to lose my son, but he lives with me, and has an excellent relationship with my ex. DO NOT agree to something to avoid a fight. It's NOT worth it!

[SummerLove]

I DO want joint custody, I really do. He is not physically abusive, and is really a great father. We are just.not.good.together... and I'm done with it.

However, yes, he has control issues, and that is one of the many reasons I am leaving.

[One_Girl]

If you can avoid using an attorney by naming yourself the custodial parent of one child and your ex the custodial parent of another child then that is an easy way to get a quick divorce without paying a ton of money. My divorce cost $2500 with an attorney and nothing was contested. My boss just spent $30,000 on her second divorce where a lot was contested. It can get pricey very quickly.

[SummerLove]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

If you can avoid using an attorney by naming yourself the custodial parent of one child and your ex the custodial parent of another child then that is an easy way to get a quick divorce without paying a ton of money. My divorce cost $2500 with an attorney and nothing was contested. My boss just spent $30,000 on her second divorce where a lot was contested. It can get pricey very quickly.

In our tax section I put that he will claim DS1 and I will claim DS2 for taxes, but it didn't say anything about custodial parent. The only place it mentioned that I am the custodial parent is in the child support section... every where else it considers us both custodial parents.

I will get a lawyer if I have to, but I sooo don't want to have so much debt and no way to repay it!

[Smithie]

I hear you on the debt. I really do. But IMHO as an Internet stranger, it's likely to be worth it to get somebody involved in this process who is not emotionally involved with Mr. Control Issues and could truly not care less about his guilt trips and sob stories, and is fully and calmly focused on getting you the best possible outcome.

[SummerLove]

Originally Posted by Smithie

I hear you on the debt. I really do. But IMHO as an Internet stranger, it's likely to be worth it to get somebody involved in this process who is not emotionally involved with Mr. Control Issues and could truly not care less about his guilt trips and sob stories, and is fully and calmly focused on getting you the best possible outcome.

Thank you for the advice.. I will see what I can do. There is a free legal service in my state that I can also try to look into (for low income families). I don't know if they would take my case without a history of domestic violence, though. I will also look into divorce lawyers in my area and see what they have to say.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by SummerLove

Thank you for the advice.. I will see what I can do. There is a free legal service in my state that I can also try to look into (for low income families). I don't know if they would take my case without a history of domestic violence, though. I will also look into divorce lawyers in my area and see what they have to say.

He's been calling you an unfit mother and neglectful - abuse isn't always physical. Control is one form of emotional abuse, accusing someone of being a bad mother when they are not is another.

When seeking free legal help, do not downplay your situation. Be honest, but firm, about the way it really is.

[SummerLove]

I looked up lawyers in my area and found one that does free first consultations and reduced rate as well. So I am going to call them first thing, 9am, tomorrow morning and see if I can get an appointment to at least have them look over the paperwork I printed out. So, I'll see what s/he says after that, and go from there, I guess. I was really hoping to file ASAP on Monday so that I know he can't legally take the children.

[FireFrog]

I agree with others that getting a lawyer is ESSENTIAL! I cannot stress it enough. My ex was also not physically abusive, but he was emotionally and verbally abusive to me, then later to DD.

We ended up going to court a total of 3 times. The first two times I did not have a lawyer, but he did. It really did NOT go well for me. Although we had joint custody, he always acted as if he had the upper hand because of the court outcomes. It was so stressful for me and DD.

The third time, I hired a lawyer before we took any action, so that she could advise me all along the way. Thank goodness we did, because there were so many things I was not aware of and would not have been able to handle without that legal advice.

The court system is not your friend. It does not care about you, and what you think is right. It is not even interested in your best interest, only what it defines as the best interest of the child. Note that I said what IT defines as the best interest, because you may not agree with the court's definition. Once you are in the system, however, it really doesn't matter what you think.

A lawyer is a necessity so that your concerns are represented. It becomes their job to advocate for you and what you believe is best. The court is more likely to listen to the lawyer because they are not emotionally invested in the situation.

Good luck!

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by FireFrog

I agree with others that getting a lawyer is ESSENTIAL! I cannot stress it enough. My ex was also not physically abusive, but he was emotionally and verbally abusive to me, then later to DD.

We ended up going to court a total of 3 times. The first two times I did not have a lawyer, but he did. It really did NOT go well for me. Although we had joint custody, he always acted as if he had the upper hand because of the court outcomes. It was so stressful for me and DD.

The third time, I hired a lawyer before we took any action, so that she could advise me all along the way. Thank goodness we did, because there were so many things I was not aware of and would not have been able to handle without that legal advice.

The court system is not your friend. It does not care about you, and what you think is right. It is not even interested in your best interest, only what it defines as the best interest of the child. Note that I said what IT defines as the best interest, because you may not agree with the court's definition. Once you are in the system, however, it really doesn't matter what you think.

A lawyer is a necessity so that your concerns are represented. It becomes their job to advocate for you and what you believe is best. The court is more likely to listen to the lawyer because they are not emotionally invested in the situation.

Good luck!

YES YES YES YES YES to the bolded.

A lawyer familiar with the court you are going to be in (my ex hired a manhattan lawyer - she didn't know squat about queens court!) is an added bonus. My lawyer knew the judges we were in front of, and was familiar with how to say things so that the judges responded to her. Until we got a judge who had recently transferred from civil court - but by then we had the upper hand so much it didn't even matter. Not one itty little bit.

If you are even one ounce afraid that he might take the children, file for custody, and ask for a no relocation order on the children so that if he DOES take them he's in contempt. That would get you primary physical in an INSTANT.