Variations in carseat safety standards

[c'est moi]

So it has been drilled into my head that...

5-point harnesses are the gold standard and that extended rear-facing is the new gold standard as well. I have absolutely NO problems complying with these guidelines and recommendations.

HOWEVER...

Can someone please explain to me why the EU does not fall the same standards? I cannot seem to find any EU carseats with a 5-point harness. Rear-facing standards also are not the same. Is there any research to support the EU logic and safety behind only have a 3-point harness?

BUT, I'm moving to an EU country next year and need to make some carseat decisions soon with a new baby on the way.

Now, I'm all for following the law, which will now be EU law, but my kids safety is MOST important to me. Can someone please explain to me why my children will still be safe in non-5-point harness carseats and forward facing sooner than I'd like?

I know I saw a thread were something like this was hotly debated. I think it was months ago, but have not been able to find it so far. If you know which one I'm talking about, I'd love the link.

Thank you!

[Eclipsepearl]

Yes, I live in France where the choice of car seats is poor. Babies can turn ffing at 6 months and once a child reaches 18kilos/40lbs. they have to go into a booster. There are no higher harnessed nor rfing options.

I have always used U.S. seats because my childrens' safety is more important than EU rules. I have been stopped here many times by the police on routine checks and they have never even commented on my U.S. seat, which is a Radian and therefore looks very different than those sold here. I even once strapped it into a French police car here!

If I were having a baby today, and I wanted to comply with EU regs, I'd go on AdventureDad's website (I'm sure he'll chime in here) and get a Swedish car seat with a high rfing limit. I don't know if he has any with a tether anchor but check.

http://www.carseat.se/

Also, if you do get a seat with a tether anchor, be sure to buy a car that has one. This was very difficult here in France.

Safety is a very cultural thing. A cab driver got sticky when I refused to put my then-5 year old on my lap because he didn't want to take his things off the front seat (there were 4 of us). I opted to be the one to go seatbeltless and he relented. I've honestly had French people ask WHY I have smoke alarms in my house (hello??)

Some think I'm nuts but I could care less what they think.

Hygiene stuff too like not licking a spoon and putting it back in a jar of Nutella or mixing cooked and non-cooked meat on the same plate. It's been non-stop for 14 years. I feel like I'm always on the lookout for my kids' safety, at least in France. Some countries in the EU are better while some are worse. It depends on where you're moving...

[DahliaRW]

Well, yes, 5 point harness is the "gold standard" until your child is old enough/big enough/mature enough for a booster. Around 5-6 yo most kids are ready, and at that point there is NO data to tell us if a booster or a harness are safer and there are theories on either end.

If you're going to be in the EU, I deffinitely would get a Swedish seat. Then you can rf to booster age, which, IMO, is ideal.

[chickabiddy]

European three-point harnesses are different, and IMO better, than US three-point harnesses. The straps fit closer to the body and often have grippy harness pads.

I agree that if possible (and legal) a Swedish seat would be a good investment, and I *would* be concerned about the low RFing weight limits, but the European three-point harnesses would not be an issue for me.

[an_aurora]

FWIW, EU convertible seats ARE 5 pt harnesses.

[EdnaMarie]

Well, the EU isn't perfect.

Where are you moving in Europe? I agree, you can always order a Swedish carseat, and as far as I know, they're not going to be at all bothered if your carseat meets higher standards. According to the USARER rules (military in Europe) we can have our own carseats and we do.

[c'est moi]

thank you for your input!

although we are not moving to sweden, we are moving to a country that will accept swedish seats. looks like i'll be buying 2 RF convertibles by the time we get over there.

i am comforted to hear that the seats only being a 3-point harness does not distress you.

[elmh23]

They are 5pt harness, they just don't have a chest clip like the seats in the US do.

[Eclipsepearl]

When you talk about 3 point harnesses, they have rfing infant seats with just three points. Here in France, I've never seen an infant bucket with a 5 point harness. I'm not sure if the 5 point is safer than the 3 point with those types of seats. The three points are the shoulders and between the legs.

We do know that 5 point harnesses are safer than putting 2 and 3 year olds in booster seats (which are technically 3 point harnesses). This is using the adult seatbelt with nothing between the legs, so no "grippy" straps will keep the child from sliding down in an accident. Again, in France, once your child hits 40lbs. they have to go into a booster. I could not find a 5 point car seat in either France or Germany that went beyond 18 kilos/40 lbs. I was not comfortable with that and brought a Radian over from the States.

[c'est moi]

Originally Posted by elmh23

They are 5pt harness, they just don't have a chest clip like the seats in the US do.

wow! i'm a dope. 2 years into this parenting thing and it was only THIS comment that made me realize the "5 points" refer to how many connections it has to the back of the seat and not how many times it clips at the front. i've always wondered how the counting worked. i figured the chest clip counted as 2 connections plus the 3 connections at the crotch make 5.

thank you!!!

i feel like a tool.

[elmh23]

Don't feel like a tool. I thought it was that way for awhile too!