4yo given clear expectations but still has meltdowns/uncooperative when leaving a fun place

[Ophelia]

I don't know what to do, we can't just keep him at home all the time, that just makes things worse! It has gotten cold here in MN so that cuts out quite a bit of outside time (instead of the few hours we would usually do, if we are lucky it's 1 hour outside).

Two nights in a row, I didn't know what else to do with him and he clearly needed to get some wiggles out. I took him to the local mall which has a small play area. I discussed this both times with him before we even went in:

-that we didn't have a very long time to begin with
-that when I said it was time to leave, we need to leave
-i will give him the usual time warning

to all this he says OK like he understands, but both times and with other things also, when it comes to actually leaving he resists and gets very uncooperative. I ended up yelling at him a lot, both times I also end up dragging him out (he is 50 lbs and I am 26 wks pg, I can't keep doing this). I tell him that he can either choose to walk by me, or have me hold his hand but he will not choose either so I end up carrying or dragging him. I'm not supposed to even be carrying him due to my lower back hurting.

I am thinking that I am giving him clear expectations beforehand, is there something else I should be doing? I can understand it difficult for him to leave something fun, but we can't just sit at home all the time just because it's hard for him to leave the fun things!

I think he may have some ADHD tendencies (I was diagnosed with it just this year) and he also has low impulse control for his age, and high spirited and a hard time with transitions. We have given him time warnings since before 2yo, so he does understand them.

I am trying to get him to get more sleep in case that is part of it, and he is at Montessori 2 days a week and my Mom's the other 2 days, and at home the other days. The school does get him out every day except in rain or very cold weather, my Mom maybe gets him out for short periods for the same weather. He definitely gets more hyper the longer he goes w/o being able to go outside.

Thanks!

[woodchick]

My DD1 is the same way. She fights when leaving ANYWHERE, fun or not.

Have you read "Raising your Spirited Child"? We have found some of the methods in it to be helpful.

I've found saying to her "It is 11:00 now. I am setting my phone alarm for 11:30. When it goes off we will leave." More often than not she will ask to leave before the alarm. It baffles me that it actually works (but not always!)

I also repeat "I understand that you don't want to leave, but it is time to go." or "I can tell that you don't want to leave" or sometimes I just look in her eyes and say "you don't want to go." With DD1 I think she just needs to hear her words come back at her to make her feel heard and understood.

Good luck! I decided long ago that not leaving the house was not an option, even with the fits that came with leaving somewhere. I just try to be patient and leave time to play 'we're leaving games'. It's always easier for me to be patient when I have time on my side.

[jeslynn]

I personally wouldn't do that to my son. I know that if I did it would only make him think it was okay to lick other people. Plus....I'm a germ-a-phobe. --insert OCD crazy here--

[MacKinnon]

My 6 yo still does this. She's in first grade and we have found no way to manage it. I'm getting extremely impatient with it! We've done all the things you've discussed and nothing helps. If she's tired, has had a long day or is having a REALLY good time, she WILL melt down when we leave, it's almost guaranteed. She does fine with very predictable structured routines, like the end of school, the end of gymnastics class, but not with new things, no matter how much I try to provide the same sort of cues for every event. ie- We are staying until 11:30, I'll give you have 5 minute warning, etc.

[mom2grrls]

When you say 2 nights in a row, were you going out in the evening? perhaps near bedtime? That may have a lot to do with how he reacted.

[Ophelia]

Yes, I do have 'raising your spirited child' although it's been a couple years since I read it. I have read lots of books, trouble is I have a hard time applying the suggestions

When you say 2 nights in a row, were you going out in the evening? perhaps near bedtime? That may have a lot to do with how he reacted.

Yes, I wanted to help him get some wiggles out before bedtime. It was about 6-6:20pm when we went to the mall and my new goal is to have him ready and IN bed be 8:15pm. I know you are not supposed to have them do anything hyper right before bedtime, but getting ready for bed takes long enough (I try to start at 7:30-7:40 so I plan on being home by 7:20-30 because he always wants a snack first). Maybe we just need to do something at home on the weeknights instead?

Also sometimes we have a really hard time getting him to GO anywhere, unless he is really psyched about it. He will say he doesn't want to, or he won't do as we ask that is required before we leave (go potty mainly, finish getting dressed) and he also gets distracted extremely easy. If you ask him to go potty and let him to do it on his own, 9 times out of 10 he will get totally distracted and start playing with toys, etc. and we struggle to get out the door. We are constantly having to repeat instructions several times. I know it takes a while for kids to 'get' things, but we've been doing this for 2 years now and it's not getting better.

[mamazee]

Sometimes "5 more minutes" doesn't work as well as "5 more times down the slide." It depends on the kid, but that could help. IT's just a little less abstract.

[Ophelia]

"5 more times down the slide."

I have done that too, but not nearly as often. Thanks for the reminder, I'll have to make a concious (sp) effort to do that more and let DH know also.

[GuildJenn]

Is there any pattern to when he freaks out?

For my son, going out after 6 pm is pretty much a recipe for a freakout. He's just out of his still-young coping powers by then. He also has a dip at 4 pm (I think even though he doesn't nap anymore he sort of could around then), and before meals.

I'd suggest doing the "get the wiggles out" earlier in the day, and then just doing something at home. We do yoga sometimes, or dance, or just jump around.

For the going out, I do like the "How to Talk so Kids will Listen..." technique of getting quite short:

Please put your shoes on.
Shoes on.
Child, SHOES.

But I also think that it's a maturity thing that isn't always in place yet (I think it might come into play around...adolescence. ).

[crowcaw]

4yo-5yo was much worse for me than any age previously when it came to getting dds to leave fun places. What consistently worked was having something interesting for the car -- a cookie or grapes or cheese or some other treat du jour. Not a bribe, but an incentive (meaning not "if you leave nicely you get a cookie" but "I have our snack that we can have in the car, let's go!"). Not extra food, 'cuz it was a snack. Or if it wasn't snack time, the promise of a story while driving or something like that. And then just going; had to make sure I was always ready to really go once I said we were.

What absolutely didn't work was warnings. For some reason the "5 more minutes" or "5 more times down the slide" would always end in a meltdown. I think dds would get more anxious as they were counting down the time remaining.

[LynnS6]

I found I needed to leave 10 minutes before I think I should. If you leave when he's tired, he's got no resources for the transition.

My kids do best with a 5-3-1 warning system: "5 minutes and it's time to go." "3 minutes and it's time to go." "1 minute and it's time to go. How about 3 more trips down the slide." I agree that sometimes 5 more of something concrete makes it easier.

Try to get out for exercise in the morning or afternoon. Evening really should be a wind-down time, not a wind-up time. Is there someplace you can go for a walk if it's clear he needs some exercise after dinner? It's much easier to transition from a walk to home than it is from an exciting playground.

[One_Girl]

When my dd was that age I did the 5-3-1 warnings as well followed by me telling dd to pick her last thing. I also really talked up what we were doing next even if we were just going to the car or the next store and eating our sliced apples from a baggy or having a story on the way. When she was in Kindergarten there was a family with a little girl she loved to play with and she was always sad when she had to leave their house. The parents always jumped in before I had a chance to speak and told her she couldn't come back if she acted up when it was time to go. I used that as a talking point for how other people perceive her when she is acting out in a serious way and we talked about more appropriate ways to express her disappointment. I felt sad that we needed to have that talk but I also felt like she would benefit from knowing why she was getting negative feedback from those parents so she didn't feel like they didn't like her. By the time she got to first grade she was over the whining when it is time to go.

[OGirlieMama]

Ophelia, let's just hope your son never meets either of my twins and falls in love, because they'd never manage to get out the door. They will be 5 in January and everything you described - from the meltdowns upon leaving a place to the inability to get out the door to go somewhere (even if it's somewhere fun) applies to both of my girls, though one more strongly than the other. No amount of warning seems to help, despite their serious assertion that they totally understand what I am saying. It has been this way since they were 2ish, and it has taken me this long to come to the feeling that they are probably not just going to outgrow it, and I just got a referral from our ped to a child psych. He held out ADHD as a possibility, especially given my girls being preemies and at higher risk.

Basically, no advice from me, just commiseration. I really do know how you feel!

[O's mommy]

I can totally relate as well. My DD is 6 yo and in 1st grade. She has had the exact same issues since probably around 1yo. I have tried everything I can think of as well, warnings, no warnings, fun things in the car-everything. I think it just may be part of her personality now-or a habit maybe . I find it difficult that now she is getting older and bigger it really embarrasses me now more than it use to when she was smaller