epigenetics and methylation - Page 2

[Theloose]

Soy foods, beets, and spinach would all be considered "high-methyl" foods since they are rich in methyl-containing nutrients like choline, betaine, and lecithin.

http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=158

What are other methyl-containing nutrients? What other foods have choline betaine or lecithin? Egg yolks and liver come to mind. What about high purine foods?

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

here's one link:

http://www.the-scientist.com/blog/display/55612/

fabulous implications.

That's very cool stuff - it doesn't sound like they have a lot of evidence (yet) for it being the primary way we produce eggs, so I don't know to what extent it applies here.

Originally Posted by whoMe

Yasko mentioned somewhere that she thinks it's genes becoming unmethylated due to lack of methyl groups that explains why so many kids have blond hair that turns dark when they get older. If things like that can change, and it's the methyl groups that turn the genes on and off, then, yeah, the DNA is set with the eggs, but the expression of it isn't. There's so much replication happening while the fetus is growing that a methyl group reserve is important for DNA expression. Or am I entirely missing your question?

Originally Posted by whoMe

http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=158

What are other methyl-containing nutrients? What other foods have choline betaine or lecithin? Egg yolks and liver come to mind. What about high purine foods?

Methyl groups are a pretty basic building block of organic compounds - they're the CH3 piece you find in the chemical structure of lots of molecules (including fats, proteins, carbs). I think they end up in short supply in a body that can't free up those methyl groups to be readily available in the right places, or that uses them up at an unusual rate.

So I think the clogs happens when you have not enough freely available methyl groups (which is why supps like DMG, SAMe, methyl B12 are useful, they readily & easily donate methyl groups). The clog can also happen if you are missing substrates or co-factors for the reactions that free up methyl groups, and that's where folate, methionine, etc can be helpful.

Lots of autism docs argue for supporting the methylation cycle in different ways, some like to supp with things like choline & methionine, some like to use massive doses of methyl B12. Yasko seems to be pretty successful focusing mostly on B12 & folates, and then using things like SAMe, DMG, and occasionally extra methionine to give the wheels an extra push.

If you want less supps and more food sources, I'd focus on the substrates & cofactors, and hope your enzymes/genes are fairly functional (e.g. DS could probably get his folate needs met with food, but not his B12 needs).

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

That's very cool stuff - it doesn't sound like they have a lot of evidence (yet) for it being the primary way we produce eggs, so I don't know to what extent it applies here.

I got wrapped up and still haven't found the actual paper which is much more compelling. When I find it I'll post.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by Panserbjørne

I got wrapped up and still haven't found the actual paper which is much more compelling. When I find it I'll post.

If you do find it some day, I'd love to read it - this is a subject I've always found fascinating .

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Methyl groups are a pretty basic building block of organic compounds - they're the CH3 piece you find in the chemical structure of lots of molecules (including fats, proteins, carbs). I think they end up in short supply in a body that can't free up those methyl groups to be readily available in the right places, or that uses them up at an unusual rate.

So I think the clogs happens when you have not enough freely available methyl groups (which is why supps like DMG, SAMe, methyl B12 are useful, they readily & easily donate methyl groups). The clog can also happen if you are missing substrates or co-factors for the reactions that free up methyl groups, and that's where folate, methionine, etc can be helpful.

Lots of autism docs argue for supporting the methylation cycle in different ways, some like to supp with things like choline & methionine, some like to use massive doses of methyl B12. Yasko seems to be pretty successful focusing mostly on B12 & folates, and then using things like SAMe, DMG, and occasionally extra methionine to give the wheels an extra push.

If you want less supps and more food sources, I'd focus on the substrates & cofactors, and hope your enzymes/genes are fairly functional (e.g. DS could probably get his folate needs met with food, but not his B12 needs).

I'm trying to make sense of my recent b12 experiments. In short, hydroxy b12 seems to be increasing my need for methyl groups, and methyl b12 fixes it. I can only conclude that there's an actual shortage of methyl groups going on, despite eating plenty of real food. Clearly my digestion isn't as great as it could/should be, but either the hydroxy is greatly increasing my usage beyond what diet can reasonably provide, or this is a spot many of us might be in, with a deficiency of actual, usable methyl groups, that no amount of folate and (non-methyl)b12 can fix.

So how can we more readily break methyl groups off from the food matrix?