Singapore vs. Right Start and questions

[canuckgal]

I am debating purchasing these as a resource as we try to get more formal about math around here. I think my kids would be more responsive to a "Living Math approach", but am looking for a curriculum as a resource to all the games for math type books and such I have ordered.

I am leaning more towards Singapore at the moment. I have seen samples of both programs online, but am also looking at RS a bit as we actually do have a simular abacus (not from them) with the exact arrangement of colors and fives. At the very least, I am planning to order the abacus activity manual from Right Start as my kids are very visual.

Ok, I have heard that both are based on Asian math. Has anyone here had experience with one or both? What is their approach for eventally learning basic facts? I am more concerned with them being able to understand WHY and answer is what it is, and to pull apart numbers for mental math....I tend to view say 34+56 in my head as I would write it complete with carrying, I would hope they could understand it as adding 30+50 and 4 and 6 and thinking of it that way and knowing how to take apart the numbers and what they really mean. I know the abacus encourages it but am not sure what singapore does.


So those of you that have used these programs, what do you like or don't like....in terms of how your kids respond and also any tediousness or speed or how fast they move them through things and such?

[Lisa1970]

I use Singapore Math and did with my older children too all the way through. I have heard great about Right Start. I also loved Miquon and would have loved to use it. But, I never really tried out those other programs, Right Start or Miquon as Singapore worked just fine for us.

The one thing about Singapore is that you cannot get stuck on the grade levels. Levels in Singapore are not the same as grade levels in the USA. When you finish 6B, you are ready for Algebra which is typically an average 9th grade US course. I also find that supplimenting with Keys to Fractions and Keys to Algebra helped a lot and I like the Keys to series. My children all place 99th percentile in math, except one year when one placed 98th. I am thinking they did not do this well before Singapore Math. I like to have a good thorough program. Only complaints I have really heard about Singapore Math is when some people try to go from an American program in to Singapore, they will try to go from grade 4 to level 4 and that simply does not work. So unless you are starting with level 1A, use the placement tests. And make sure your child knows that the numbers on the books are not grade levels.

Like any math program, you do need to drill the math facts. I have found many people like to skip over math facts or even discount them saying they never learned them so they don't care if their children do or claims that they are incapable. But children struggle in higher maths when they have not learned their multiplication facts. I used to tutor, and sometimes still tutor high school math. I cannot even tell you how many kids cannot factor a simple polynomial in algebra 1 because they do not have their math facts down. Calculators do not factor polynomials.

Good luck! I don't think you can go wrong with any of these choices!

[canuckgal]

BUMP

[yllek]

I have Singapore 1A/B and RightStart A. Both rely a lot on regrouping, number bonds, and other strategies for imparting a more conceptual understanding of number and operations, not just memorizing math facts. I think both programs have their strong adherents. It's just a matter of finding the program that suits your child's learning style, I suppose.

I was sure that my ds would love the manipulative-based, game-oriented, oral approach of RightStart. We both hated it. I don't think I can emphasize that strongly enough. Each lesson is heavily scripted, and I just could not get used to teaching that way. Even though I tried just reading through the text so I could present the lesson in my own way, the activities, graphics and manipulatives just didn't do it for ds. Each lesson also presents several different topics, and that style doesn't suit ds well.

I know there are legions of RS fans out there. Our experience was pretty disappointing. And since we bought all the extras, it was an expensive mistake.

I am currently taking more of a living math approach, but I supplement occasionally with Singapore, Miquon and MM. We love Singapore, and I think the HIG does an excellent job of presenting different instructional strategies for each lesson. Ds loves the workbook. The presentation of the math concepts make sense to him. I realized that while he does like manipulatives and games, he much prefers to be able to work out math problems on his own, without the dialogue that is intrinsic to the RS approach of doing math. I know Math Mammoth is also touted to present math in a very student-friendly way, but ds is a very visual learner. The MM graphics (or the lack of them) was a dealbreaker for ds. MM also has sooo many practice problems. Too many for my ds. Singapore and Miquon have been our favorites, without a question.

Since you are asking about Singapore, I like having the HIG, the textbook, the workbook, and the Intensive Practice book. There are lots of folks who don't "need" as many, but I found that each book gives a slightly different approach to presenting different math concepts. I like being able to select from them. Singapore does a nice job of laying out the number and operations lesson sequences. Singapore gives lots of different strategies for learning math facts, so while the drill and memorization are not built into the practice problems so much, the opportunity to learn math facts thoroughly is there. I am less thrilled about their lessons on money and time, but we take a living math approach with those concepts anyway.

And since you are also taking a LM approach, I thought I would mention that we also really like the activities in the Week-by-Week Essentials. Tons of printable math games, mental math problems, math warm-ups, etc. They help to round out our math program when we do some of these activities along with our other mathy activities.

I am also thinking about how I can implement a math notebook with my very reluctant writer/drawer. The ideas are percolating, but we aren't doing anything consistently yet.

[Leersia]

I posted a week or so ago about the issues that I was having with RS math: http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1274601

I used it from level A to halfway through Level C, and then just couldn't take it anymore, for the reasons described by "yllek" - same deal here. I love the ideas behind RightStart, just like I like the ideas behind Waldorf education, but in the end neither were a great fit for me or my kids. One of my main complaints with RS is that the lessons would take us SO long to get through, we never really had time to do the games and practice sheets, and as a result we were 1) having no fun and 2) not really learning the math facts. To double my frustration, we were just entering what looked like weeks and weeks of geometry, but my kids couldn't tell you what 12+12 was without really pondering it for a while. They seem to need more practice with the basics, rather than the fancy footwork that RS was giving them in Level C.

We just started Singapore, which I think will work better for us, and I find that it also really has an emphasis on mental math, but it includes a lot more pictorial examples, which seem to help my kids. So far, they say that they like it better. I'm not always chasing after it like I was RightStart, so I think we will have more time for games and other things.. . .

Good luck with your decision.

[Googy]

I am a huge fan of RightStart.  I am an ex-teacher, and I *wish* I could have taught a program like this, and am so happy to be teaching it now to my daughter.  I think it really makes math make sense.  It really helps a child visualize how math works, to really *understand* the math, not just be able to solve problems.  And its a fun program, lots of games and activities, and its very physical.  But this is all accomplished without being too "fluffy" of a math program, the kids really learn a lot of math!  I really think RightStart provides a fabulous foundation in mathematics; it really sets the child up to not only perform mental math with ease but also lays the groundwork to really understand higher-level math concepts. 

My only criticism (if it is one) is that my DD flies through the lessons, asks to do at least 2 a day.  We will finish a level in way less than a year.  She really, really loves this program and looks forward to doing math everyday!

[inky leeuhhh]

this is our first year teaching math, and we have been using singapore. at first i didn't like it. i felt like it was "dry" (don't know how better to explain it, lol). now that we have had some time with it though, i like how it progresses. i like that concepts like addition are presented in a variety of different formats. we use counters and supplement here and there when i feel like switching things up a bit, but i feel like this is a good base. no experience with rs tho! good luck with whatever you choose.