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Signing a baby out AMA....ILLEGAL????

post #1 of 60
Thread Starter 
My last LO we left the hospital when she was 5 hours old. We went home and cuddled her in our own bed and we got precious time together to bond in her early hours to bond interrupted. I have since moved to CA and I am being told that I can leave the hospital whenever I want after baby is born, but they will not "allow" me to leave with baby until a MD discharges the baby. Essentially we have no right to sign the baby out early. How can this be legal? How could the hospital put such a restriction on a parent? They told us that CPS would be contacted and that they would get a court order to force us to keep the baby in the hospital. I am MORTIFIED!!!! Anyone know anything about the legalities of all of this??? I mean to be honest if I do not "own" the baby before I am discharged with him then I hope they are paying for all of his medical care while he is there.....
post #2 of 60
Do you know any lawyers that could meet you at the hospital when you leave?
post #3 of 60
that's insane hun, how can they enforce such a ridiculous law
post #4 of 60
huh? that doesn't make sense. there's always homebirth

Hope you figure this out.
post #5 of 60
Sounds like a big empty threat to me, personally. They may call, but I suspect CPS has bigger problems to deal with than a competent, responsible mother wanting to take a perfectly healthy newborn home a little early.
post #6 of 60
If I had gone to the hosp, my ob said get a ped lined up & on board with me. I would have called the ped as I went to hosp & kept him updated so he could see baby right away & sign discharge
post #7 of 60
It isn't illegal.

They may very well call CPS. I highly, highly doubt that they would get a court order the keep a healthy newborn in the hospital. Just scare tactics.

But- so that you don't have to deal with CPS- do try and find a ped that will release a baby early.
post #8 of 60
Hate to take the other side, but I wouldn't bet that CPS would not get involved - you are talking about a newborn which is an emotional subject and if the doctor is saying no way can baby go, legally, CPS will go with the doctor. And before you just walk out with the baby in your arms - they are not going to physically restrain you - know that they will likely call the police. I agree with PP, best bet is to have that ped on line with you ready to sign baby out or homebirth!.
post #9 of 60
I'm not in CA, but here you cannot sign your baby out AMA. Social services and CPS will be called, and a case will be opened. Plus, with our security system, you physically wouldn't be able.
post #10 of 60
Is there no way you could just ring for an MD an hour before you wanted to leave and get him to sign out the baby? Or do they have a strict policy of making the baby stay in hospital for 48 hours after birth, or something? Could you find a crunchy MD who might be willing to sign the baby out if he/she looked healthy and had good vitals and so on?
post #11 of 60
I second finding an MD who will discharge you if baby is doing fine. Our ped is a friend, but she offered to discharge baby over the phone when my son was born so we could leave. That way you don't have to worry about CPS.
post #12 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeminijad View Post
It isn't illegal.

They may very well call CPS. I highly, highly doubt that they would get a court order the keep a healthy newborn in the hospital. Just scare tactics.

But- so that you don't have to deal with CPS- do try and find a ped that will release a baby early.
It's a legal technicality- they need to make sure that the baby s 100% healthy and to "prove" it by having a doctor discharge the baby, or if, God forbid, something were to happen to the baby, you could sue the hospital for sending you home with a baby who wasn't ready to be without medical intervention.
post #13 of 60
In many many states two doctors can legally over-ride a parents decision on anything deemed potentially life threatening. (Ex: Kid needs blood transfusion from car accident and parents are Jahova's witness and refuse... if kid could reasonably die from not recieving the blood transfusion then parents can be over-ridden as well as the whole CPS case initiated)
So this would be one of those where the docs could say its life threatening to the baby not to be observed for complications for at least 24 hours.

(24 hours discharge is normal CDC guidelines for a vaginal born complication free delivery to mom who is either GBS negative OR recieved both doses of antibiotics while in labor and is greater than 38 weeks gestation).

So yes you could attempt to sign out AMA, but technically two docs could force baby to stay and open a CPS case.
post #14 of 60
pretty much any time a child is signed out of a hospital AMA CPS is called. and CPS can decide that it's child-endangerment. I agree with finding a Ped who will do an early discharge.
post #15 of 60
The hospital where I used to work now has foot band alarms that have to be taken off with a special devise or they set off a hospital wide alarm, so, yeah, you can't just walk out.
post #16 of 60
Thread Starter 
The problem with finding a Ped is that we are delivering at a hospital that is close to 2 hours away because I want to VBAC. So a local Ped that woul dbe accessible to the hospital is impossible. Also I am ALWAYS GBS positive, my babies are born at 36 weeks (though 100% healthy), and I am a diabetic. I feel like I am fighting a loosing battle. My other babies who were born in OH I just signed them out and that was that. My last one no Ped even laid eyes on her until she was 48 hours old, but I am a RN and I know how to evaluate a baby for complications so they had no problem with my taking the baby. I checked blood sugars, temps, everything. I just feel like I am not even the parent until we are "allowed" to walk out the door which is insane.
post #17 of 60
So it's not actually ILLEGAL it's just against hospital policy?
post #18 of 60
I have a bit of an insider's view on this, having done CPS for 8 years previous to my current gig as a hospital social worker on an LDRP. I'm not in CA, though, and each state has its own code and policies outlining child protection mandates...

In the hospital where I work, it's pretty common that a mom and baby can be discharged after 24hrs after an uneventful vag delivery, pending no other subsequent baby issues (ex, GBS +, phototherapy needs, etc). The OB clears mom for discharge, and the ped clears baby. In our hospital, this ped can be your community-based ped (if he/she has hospital privileges) or one of the hospitalists peds (if your ped does not have privileges). While some OBs will discharge a mama <24hrs, most, if not all, peds will want to wait for the 24hr mark.

There have been instances in which a mom wishes to discharge with her baby <24hrs, and the ped usually consults me to chat with the parents about their desire to leave in this "quick" timeframe (for hospital-based births). It's true, I am mandated by hospital policy to notify the dept of social services where the family lives. Typically this means I speak with a CPS social worker and explain the context of the situation. If there are no other red flags (like a history of abuse with the family or any previous CPS encounters, or concerning behaviors exhibited by the family during their stat, such as being inattentive to baby's needs), usually CPS will want to know who the baby's ped is and when the baby's follow-up is scheduled. Sometimes they will touch base with the family to explore the situation further, but rarely have I seen a circumstance where CPS advises the hospital that a baby cannot go home with parents or must stay. In those circumstances where CPS has formally intervened and prevented a discharge home, there is usually some outlying issue with the family.

I have found that it really is all in how you approach this subject with the family. If the ped or hospital social worker barge into a room and treat a family like they're a bunch of inconsiderate idiots, well, that's just asking for an outraged family. But if you gently explain that this is a mechanism that the hospital must engage to ensure the safety of babies and is in no an indictment of a parent's intent or ability to be a nurturing parent, most parents handle this little hiccup pretty well. I agree with an above poster that it's important to realize that a hospital has an obligation to ensure that a baby is safely discharged to the parents, and there are certain procedures that the hospital must adhere to legally...because there are, sadly, families that are not as thoughtful or as prepared as yours. I've seen some yucky stuff, and it's a shame that other families get lumped in with that.

Having said that, my advice to you is to be a proactive as you possibly can. 1)Touch base with your local dept of social services and discuss your intentions as your EDD rolls nearer. Chances are, if you have already placed this concern on their radar, they may be less likely to be super reactive when/if the hospital touches base with them. 2)Touch base with the hospital, possibly the nurse manager on the postpartum unit and explore this further. Let her/him know you've been in touch with DSS about this concern. Let them see that you're a thoughtful and prepared parent. Inquire if there is anything they might be able to do to proactively smooth out any wrinkles... 3)Find out who is going to be the ped responsible for discharging your baby--a hospital-based ped or your community ped--and discuss this further. Possibly even have this ped draw up a letter that can be placed in your prenatal records that go with you to the LDRP.

The worst possible thing you can do in this circumstance is nothing and waiting until you've delivered to explore the logistics of your early discharge. Hospitals, as you know, run like a factory (sad, but true) and anything out of the ordinary sends folks into a panic, and sometimes a very judgey panic at that. And you don't need that stress on such a big milestone day!

Good luck!
post #19 of 60
What was it Navelgazing Midwife said a while back? "If you buy the hospital ticket, you go for the hospital ride."

This isn't a battle I personally would fight. If having babe home soon is that important to you, can you look into a homebirth? Otherwise I think you need to make peace with their policies. On CPS' radar is *not* someplace you want to be.
post #20 of 60
alicia, you don't "own" the baby. The government does. They just allow you to care for it, at your own expense, provided you do it in a way that they are ok with. The fact that they can at any time take a baby away or give an order to the parents about the baby's care proves that they are the owners and we are just the caretakers. Parental rights in our country are a ridiculous joke. This stuff always makes me so angry.

The same applies to cars or real estate. You no longer hold the deed to your car. You get a certificate from the state that says that the car is registered in your name, and never see the deed. With real estate, there used to be what is called an allodial title. That was true ownership. If they can tax you for the house/land or take it away under eminent domain, you don't really own it. They are just letting you have exclusive use of it for the time being.
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Mothering › Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Birth and Beyond › Signing a baby out AMA....ILLEGAL????