Signing a baby out AMA....ILLEGAL???? - Page 3

[Rejoicing]

Originally Posted by alicia9178

I would love to have the baby at home but cannot afford it, so I don't have that option. With that being said i do not believe that should limit my "rights".

Don't let $ be an issue. If you can't find a mw willing to work with you financially, there's always UC. It is an option, and not so scarey. Not as scarey as having to play someone else game with your and your baby's lives!

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by MoonHasBeams

CPS and the court system are the entities responsible for determining when a change in custody must occur.

The aspect of this that's insane is that the hospital has custody at all. I go in with a baby in my uterus, and then I need their permission to take that baby home? Why do they have custody in the first place? At most, they removed the baby from my body - in many cases, they were simply observers (okay -not many, as simply observing isn't usually their game plan). If someone helps me get my child out of a locked car - or even gets my child out of a locked car (and I'm picturing a child getting into an unlocked car and locking it from the inside, not a parent locking their child in) - they don't have custody of my child! When my neighbour unscrewed a board in the playground, becuase ds2's knee was stuck, he didn't have custody of ds2. Why does a hospital have custody of a baby, just because they may have removed/assisted said baby from the mother's uterus?

Medical establishments have too much power.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by MoonHasBeams

I'm consulted for LOADS of other reasons besides a family wanting to leave in a quicker timeframe. That really falls into the minority of what I do. (Mostly I deal with adoptions, substance-exposed newborns, incarcerated moms, teen moms, NICU micropreemies who need to be connected with community resources, lack of family support system, etc. And these things are much more concerning and involved that a mama who wants to take her baby home!) Just a rough guess, but in my 2 years as a hospital social worker, I have maybe been consulted less than 5 times for something akin to this. (And in those circumstances there was an intermix of issues, not just the early discharge request.) I imagine that there are an abundance of other moms who do leave earlier than typical, but they have had an open dialogue with their care providers and this smooths the way for their individualized birth plan. Everyone communicated appropriately, and there was no need for me to be involved.

If you *think* a social worker spoke with you, my thought is that s/he did it the right way--in a way that respected your new role as a parent, that empowered your ability to meet your baby's needs, and that prepared you in some way for some of the odds and ends for life after discharge.

I get it, I do. At the outset it all does seem ridiculous. I'm just trying to share a view through a slightly different lens. I've fought my own professional battles and I've made diligent efforts to educate the nursing staff about particular social issues. While I may not have the final say in any of these matters, I make sure that I do my job to be an advocate for the patient.

I start to feel a little snarly when I feel like all hospitals (or hospital social workers fulfilling a job duty) are painted with such an inflammatory brush. While I know there are lots like that, I also know that there are lots who aren't.

Bottom line: if you're planning a hospital birth, be diligent and prepared and openly communicative and persistent. I think it's great that the original poster is starting this dialogue here, as I think it can only serve to get her where she wants to be for her birthing.

FWIW, I saw a hospital social worker once (transfered from a HBA3C attempt, and my son was stillborn). She's one of only three hospital employee I've ever dealt with that I have nothing but positive thoughts about. I still hate hospitals and most medpros, but I have fairly positive mental picture of hospital social workers (so far, at least).

[Smokering]

I wish this were true. I was in the hospital for three meal times. I only got one, after my mom went looking for it, and only ten minutes from me walking out the door. Not to mention that it was only a wrapped sandwhich.

No wonderfully hot meals for me. Part of why I was so "uncooperative", I was starving! And a lot of why I will never willingly do a hospital birth again.

Yep. We went in on Sunday morning, stayed alllll day waiting for results (to tell me I had urgent! pre-eclampsia! and my organs! were shutting! down!... but apparently it took them ten hours to get around to a) finding that out and b) informing me). At 6PM, when we were starving, DH went out and got us pizza. Then I was induced at midnight, laboured for 18 hours... during which time the hospital offered me nothing, and DH offered me a few bits of fruit salad from the cafeteria which I didn't want. Then after DD was born, the placenta was extracted (dramatic, long story) and I got cleaned up, I was STARVING and asked for something to eat. Cue much fussing, fluffing around and claims that dinner was already over... well OK, yeah, but during dinnertime I was PUSHING A BABY OUT and now I was hungry! They eventually found me a reheated meal: nasty strained chicken, gluey mashed potatoes and incredibly overcooked peas. You know how they say the first meal after you give birth tastes great, because you're starving? Yeah, no. This tasted revolting.

Luckily I then transferred to the birth centre, where they spent two days plying me with soup and cheesecakes and muffins and things... not terribly healthy, but yummy. But I swear, this time, no matter where I end up birthing, I'm freezing some delicious hearty meal and getting DH to bring it along, so I'll know I can have some decent food when I'm done labouring!

[Lady Lilya]

My mother gave birth to me in 1980. The day of the birth, she had no appetite. Around 10pm she started feeling contractions. I was born at 10:30. Then she was ravenous. But the hospital kitchen was closed and they wouldn't rustle her up anything. The next morning, they brought her a tiny stack of silver dollar pancakes.

Then when she was expecting my sister in 1984, she packed mostly food in the hospital bag.

[eclipse]

The hospitals I delivered at gave me food pretty much as the babies were crowning . It was kind of awesome. Actually, it took a couple of hours with my oldest, but he had respiratory distress at birth and there was a huge crowd of people working on him and he eventually went to the NICU - so, more important things were happening than a hungry mom. With DD, I was handed a bag with a huge sandwich, fruit, yogurt, etc right after they cleaned DD up and weighed her and handed her back to me (this was at around 10:30 PM). DS2 was born around 6:30AM, and I got the regular breakfast service even though I wasn't in my own room yet (there were a ridiculous number of babies born the night ds2 was born and I had to hang out in thel&D room while they found a place for us). The whole time I was there with him, they kept coming by and offering me more snacks than I could possibly need (I kept taking them and saved them for my older kids when they came to see the baby ). I just can't believe there are hospitals out there not feeding women! I know most have a no food during labor policy (though my awesome L&D nurse when I had DD basically told me "I'm supposed to tell you not to eat. I'm supposed to let someone know so they can "talk to you" if I see you eating. I hope any eating that goes on happens when I'm not in the room." - she's the one who gave me the big bag of food after dd was born!).

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Lady Lilya

My mother gave birth to me in 1980. The day of the birth, she had no appetite. Around 10pm she started feeling contractions. I was born at 10:30. Then she was ravenous. But the hospital kitchen was closed and they wouldn't rustle her up anything. The next morning, they brought her a tiny stack of silver dollar pancakes.

That sounds about right. I will never forget my experience with ds1...went into labour on Thursday night, and brought up everything I'd eaten for dinner. I had no appetite during labour and only got down a handful of grapes and a bit of cereal. I went to the hospital Friday evening (at about 20 hours of labour) and was in OR having a c-section before I knew what was going on. Because it was a c-section, they put me on a liquid diet. I finally got solid food on Tuesday, when I lied about having passed gas.

So...last meal (that I actually kept down) was lunchtime Thursday, and I got solid food again on Tuesday. That's five days without solid food, while trying to labour, recover from surgery and establish breastfeeding. I was weak as a kitten and couldn't even walk to the bathroom in my room without help.

Their food wasn't delicious, but I didn't care by the time they fed me.

Since then, most of what I eat in the hospital comes with me, or is brought in by my loving dh.

[Smokering]

Storm Bride: Wow. That is cruel and unusual punishment.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Smokering

Storm Bride: Wow. That is cruel and unusual punishment.

What really bugged me was the way they kept hassling me to walk. I think they thought I was making too big a deal of the pain. But, in retrospect, it wasn't really the pain - I just had no energy and felt sooooo weak. (Then, after I'd had some food, I walked the ward 4 times in one morning, and the same nurse who had been on my case so much told me I was overdoing it. ARRGH!!)

[Bekka]

I know the food topic is OT kind of, but this is one reason why so many of us haven't had any babies in hospital for a long, long time. My experience was NOT as extreme as StormBride, but I really didn't get the link between food and energy in labor. I am also very hair trigger when it comes to blood glucose. I ate a "measly" lunch the day they were trying to "get me" to be induced for dd1 because my BP kept going up (not clinically, just slightly elevated, whatever).

I didn't eat dinner and arrived with dh at the hospital at 5 pm for a scheduled induction. Then they said stuff like no food, b/c going ahead with induction, then they didn't come in until 7 or 8 pm to actually DO anything. I was already a mess, 8 or more hours w/o food. Baby was born at almost midnight (and that was fast) and it was WAY interventive but still unmedicated (except induction). So then they were trying to find some kind of food (lame sandwich) at about 1:30 am for me to EAT. Yeah, food was a HUGE reason I switched to hospital-based midwives.

The earliest I could EVER get released was 24 hours, and that was "really flexible" on the part of the ped. Our last 2 were born at home. I was tired of "working with" policies.

Alicia, best wishes with whatever you decide to do.

[NewSolarMomma]

lady lilya- you are exactly right, the interference is insane. Im all for stopping abuse but it seems like Every year what is considered "acceptable parenting" becomes more limited, and the # of things that are illegal increases. Things we were allowed as kids are no longer acceptable.
BTW, CA is regulation HELL, even though it is a crunchy state overall. ive lived all over, and am from Ohio, and have never seen anything like it (TX was bad but in a different, equally awful way).
The problem with CPS is that it only takes one case worker that doesn't like the way you parent to cause all kinds of problems. whenever you hear of a CPS case where a child was removed, so many people say "oh, they wouldn't just remove a kid if all is well, something had to be going on". And you would think this was true, after all there are plenty of real abuses to keep them busy. But it DOES happen, and over things that are ridiculous, even while kids are being beat to death by parents elsewhere. I'm sure most of the time nothing happens, but when it does youndont want to be the one in trouble.

All the rules are making kids too sheltered and parents fearful of any little thing. I Read the blog Free Range Kids and the stories about parents having to deal with CPS because they let their kid play in the yard alone, or something similar, are all over. I dont know what happened to America the brave, we seem to be promoting cowering weakinglings that need big brother to tell us how to live.

Not being able to take your baby out is BS, I know it's a legal thing but that doesn't make it right!

Right now I live just South of San Diego in Mexico and am seriously considering staying here, where kids can be kids and parents can raise them however they want. Seems to me the only parents who get away with parenting how they see fit if it's at odds with contemporary experts are the religious ones.

[phathui5]

Originally Posted by alicia9178

I would love to have the baby at home but cannot afford it, so I don't have that option. With that being said i do not believe that should limit my "rights".

Have you talked to midwives in your area about insurance, breaking up payments, etc?

The midwife who attended the birth of our fourth let us pay her what we could each month until it was paid off, which we did with our tax return.

[Lady Lilya]

NewSolar, when we were deciding where in the US we would want to live, we looked for low-regulation places. As nice as it is to have a crunchy community, because of all the awesome things available in stores, it is more important to be able to live life how you want.

[A_Random_Phrase]

OP - How close are you to another state?

[A-mac]

I'm curious if Oregon has the same laws.

[MyFullHouse]

OP-
I didn't see this question asked, but I may have just missed it.
Will your regular pediatrician be the one "in charge" of the baby's care at the hospital?

To me, that seems like the biggest factor. There's a difference between leaving early and leaving AMA. My peds have been happy to clear one of my babies to leave early, but encouraged me to stay another night with another of my babies (and made it clear that leaving would be AMA... though no threats). I had no problem following their advice to stay with the one, because they explained their reasoning (which had nothing to do with arbitrary rules), and I concurred.
Having a long, trusting relationship with the hcp "in charge" absolutely had an impact on those decisions.

I do worry a bit with this next delivery b/c my peds no longer see patients my hospital. But, based on my previous experiences, I'm more worried about what might trigger an AMA "ruling" than anything else. I wouldn't want to leave early if there were a genuine reason to stay.

My mws report that most moms and babies continue to be discharged early, so that's a good sign. I'd look into getting feedback on the recent trends at your particular hospital before worrying too much. Because, again, early discharge and AMA are too very different things, unless the discharging ped is just a jerk!

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by A-mac

I'm curious if Oregon has the same laws.

I still haven't read that it's actually a LAW as opposed to a hospital policy. If it's a LAW, then a lawyer is needed, and it needs to go to court before the baby is born.

[SubliminalDarkness]

Do you know your OB? Do you know him/her well? Does he/she agree with your desire to leave quickly?

In my case, I had a hospital birth. I also LOVED my OB and he was very respectful of everything I wanted. I got the impression that he trusted me. I was well informed about things and I told him how I wanted things to be, then asked him how he could help me get there. I will also say, I am not a good person socially. I have anxiety problems that are especially bad when it comes to authority situations. But, this was something where I just felt so strongly, I was able to make it work.

My OB was fully on board with me and the baby leaving ASAP, barring any significant complications. He wasn't even worried about jaundice. When it came up after the fact he said something like, "I'm always telling those doctors that if they're worried, take the baby to natural light and look at it there. Everyone looks sick under hospital lights."

So, he lined up a pediatrician to check baby out ASAP and discharge him. I also lined up with our personal pediatrician(who didn't go to this hospital) an appointment for the following day so all our ducks were in a row. We didn't have any problem. We got a little bit delayed because our nurse was busy and it took her a bit to finish our paperwork. But I wasn't too concerned about an hour or two, no big deal in the grand scheme of things.

[OkiMom]

Ok I don't know much about signing a baby out AMA. But I have to say after reading this thread I fell very fortunate with the food situation at the hospitals I delievered at. With my first one of the L&D nurses snagged a bag breakfest off the tray going up to the post partum floor and brought it to me like 10 minutes after I delieverd. I ate as soon as I was done being stitched up.. When I got to the L&D floor it was lunch time and they offered more food which I was starving so I gladly ate. They gave me a menu and had me choose what I wanted the rest of the nights and even made a special dinner for DH and I to share.
With my second it wasn't as good but the food was still there. When I missed a meal due to being in the NICU they always kept it and rewarmed it when I got back so I didn't have to eat anything cold.
Both times they had granola bars, crackers, whole fruit, juice, tea and water in the "mother's lounge" along with coffee for the dads and any moms who wanted it and hot cocoa mix/hot water.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by OkiMom

Ok I don't know much about signing a baby out AMA. But I have to say after reading this thread I fell very fortunate with the food situation at the hospitals I delievered at. With my first one of the L&D nurses snagged a bag breakfest off the tray going up to the post partum floor and brought it to me like 10 minutes after I delieverd. I ate as soon as I was done being stitched up.. When I got to the L&D floor it was lunch time and they offered more food which I was starving so I gladly ate.

I've only had c-sections, and there are different rules. It's not quite as universal as it used to be, and my OB actually did override the standard rules when I had ds2, but the general rule after a c/s is that the patient gets no solid food until they've passed gas (or nursing staff can hear bowel sounds, in some places).