so embarrassing, social workers detained me in the subway threatening to call the police - Page 4

[AllyRae]

Originally Posted by Heavenly

And I am a mandatory reporter (and a student studying to be a social worker) and if I saw someone looking very angry, yelling and throwing a jacket at a BABY, yes I would be obligated to report. It is illegal (at least in Ontario) to strike a child with an object and throwing a jacket at one qualifies

Wait wait wait. My 6 year old was being a snot and wouldn't put on his socks for school and was almost late for school. So I took the socks (not balled up or folded) and tossed them over to him and they landed in his lap. In Ontario, *that* would get my child taken away from me?! I find that very hard to believe. And if so, well, I think Ontario needs to be looking at the huge amount of *real* child abuse out there.

[EviesMom]

I literally JUST went through that subway station 20 minutes ago. West 4th Street, right?

The OP said she was not *on* the train, and that station is pretty big. If she was waiting for the elevator, by the time a train came, they got to the conductors car through the throngs, asked him to alert someone, (probably got him to stop laughing and convinced him they were serious; bc it was Halloween, in the Village, with literally 100 times the usual crowd volume on the trains coming to the parade), and someone arrived, the OP would have been long gone, blissfully unaware, and at the meeting already.

And again, no matter what you set your cell phone on, you have no signal there, if it's the lower platform, which I presume by the "waiting for the elevator" part. There is no service from any carrier.

[ErinYay]

Originally Posted by AllyRae

Wait wait wait. My 6 year old was being a snot and wouldn't put on his socks for school and was almost late for school. So I took the socks (not balled up or folded) and tossed them over to him and they landed in his lap. In Ontario, *that* would get my child taken away from me?! I find that very hard to believe. And if so, well, I think Ontario needs to be looking at the huge amount of *real* child abuse out there.

Heck, we regularly smack the baby about the head with a soft pillow, because she LOVES it. Apparently I should add that to the ever growing list of things I do that will get her removed from our home.

[LROM]

Originally Posted by la mamita

I would just like to share the Federal US definition of child abuse, so it's clear what guidelines we are talking about:

Physical abuse is nonaccidental physical injury (ranging from minor bruises to severe fractures or death) as a result of punching, beating, kicking, biting, shaking, throwing, stabbing, choking, hitting (with a hand, stick, strap, or other object), burning, or otherwise harming a child, that is inflicted by a parent, caregiver, or other person who has responsibility for the child.2 Such injury is considered abuse regardless of whether the caregiver intended to hurt the child. Physical discipline, such as spanking or paddling, is not considered abuse as long as it is reasonable and causes no bodily injury to the child.

Also here is some information on mandated reporters, who they are, what their responsibilities are and what guidelines they follow. Mandated reporters must make a report when they have knowledge of or have a reasonable reason to suspect child abuse. I have no idea how the situation looked to a bystander, but it is possible that they had some reason to feel there was a suspicion of child abuse. Mandated reporters aren't allowed to detain random people on the street, however. That is totally out of line.

I am not commenting on the situation in this thread... just want to point out that in all of the US states (don't know about Canada but it sounds like there too), mandated reporters are responsible for reporting abuse AND neglect, which includes things like emotional neglect which could - I am NOT saying it did in this case, but it COULD look like a stressed parent on a bad day.

I'm not saying that to comment on this case, so don't yell at me for pointing it out. I just want to be clear that mandated reporters are not only responsible for reporting obvious abuse as described in the above post. The vast majority of actual child welfare cases are because of neglect, not abuse.

[Joyster]

Originally Posted by AllyRae

Wait wait wait. My 6 year old was being a snot and wouldn't put on his socks for school and was almost late for school. So I took the socks (not balled up or folded) and tossed them over to him and they landed in his lap. In Ontario, *that* would get my child taken away from me?! I find that very hard to believe. And if so, well, I think Ontario needs to be looking at the huge amount of *real* child abuse out there.

Yeah, ummm, no, you wouldn't get your child taken away from you. If someone reported you for child abuse, and said that you winged something at your kid's head, swearing and cussing them out, I'd have to open a file, which is a matter of making sure no one falls through the cracks, but if it turned out to be that you tossed some socks on your son's lap, even if you were annoyed, I'd be pissed that someone wasted my precious time and resources. I've yet to hear of any case where a child has been taken away from a parent because they tossed an item of clothing their way. In fact it's not exactly that easy to remove a child from the parent here.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by EviesMom

I literally JUST went through that subway station 20 minutes ago. West 4th Street, right?

Where did you see a specific station mentioned? I wasn't even sure we were talking about NYC.

I do get signals on most trains, but I have a friend with different cell phone company and he gets no signal in most tunnels. I don't specifically remember if I get a signal around 4th street.

[chaoticzenmom]

Hi. I have removed some posts from this thread that were discussing a different thread in a negative way. I also removed any posts that quoted them.

[Lisa1970]

Those do not sound like real social workers. I think they were frauding you. A real social worker would not likely do something like that. They are not even supposed to anyway. I would have called the police on them. Seriously. I think you should consider going back and filing a police report now. Who knows, would they go tell someone that they are social workers and kidnap the child? It has happened before. Children have been kidnapped before by people posing as social workers.

[Lisa1970]

Honestly, I am quite disturbed by your post. I suspect those women were trying to kidnap your child. PLEASE contact law enforcement to at least run by them what happened. You did nothing that would even allow them to make a report. But what they did was not within protocol of what real social workers are allowed to do. Plus, there are many kids of social workers and the type that investigate chid abuse do not really identify themselves are social workers. They might call themselves case workers or child abuse investigators. But regardless, they are not even allowed to legally investigate child abuse unless an official report is made. Two of them hanging out in the subway is really really not how real CPS workers work.

Please be very careful in the future. I hope everyone takes this as a warning. It was in the news a little while ago about a baby being kidnapped by 2 people posing as social workers. That is not the only time it has happened.

[Lisa1970]

I used to be a mandatory reporter. A mandatory reporter is obligated to report suspected child abuse. They are NOT allowed to intervene. They are specifically taught to not question the child. I took the mandatory reporter classes. They are not allowed to intervene. Mandatory reporters are not allowed to just walk up to a stranger in public and try to touch or handle the child. They are allowed to go online or make a phone call to report.

A real child abuse case worker will have ID and show you the idea from the first moment of contact.

[Mom2M]

I know there are a ton of posts here but I have to add my own because I can just imagine myself in the same situation! I try not to raise my voice, I try not to get impatient and I feel really bad when I do, but it happens sometimes.
I'm thinking about this and reading through your description, putting a picture in my head at the same time and geez, you did nothing that would warrant intervention and detainment! You weren't cursing and screaming or anything terrible.
I'm so sorry this happened to you and I imagine I would have been totally flustered at the time and then think of all these great comebacks afterward.
I hope you never see them again!
Take care

[childsplay]

Originally Posted by AllyRae

Wait wait wait. My 6 year old was being a snot and wouldn't put on his socks for school and was almost late for school. So I took the socks (not balled up or folded) and tossed them over to him and they landed in his lap. In Ontario, *that* would get my child taken away from me?! I find that very hard to believe. And if so, well, I think Ontario needs to be looking at the huge amount of *real* child abuse out there.

Hee hee, You're a better woman than I : ) After endless sock battles in this house I now throw all three pairs down from the second floor landing, balled up, hand grenade style and yell '"incoming!" The kids scream, duck, laugh and make explosion sounds. Every morning. I should be arrested.

[EdnaMarie]

It was in the news a little while ago about a baby being kidnapped by 2 people posing as social workers. That is not the only time it has happened.

Link? I Googled it and found only this thread...

[sapphire_chan]

Those "social workers" should've had the training and experience to recognize a momentary frustration. They WAAAAAAAYYYYY overreacted and I'd call their department to complain. Don't say anything like "I know I shouldn't" just concentrate on the fact that you were not hurting or trying to hurt your child in anyway and they decided to threaten your family for no reason.

Ah, note to self, demand ID, and if they can't produce it, call the cops myself and report THEM as kidnappers. (: that it never ever ever matters.)

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by WifeMomChiro

I am also a mandated reporter and what you did does not seem worthy of threatening to report. That woman's reaction was way over the top. My reaction when I see a mom exasperated is to offer any help that I can. In your case, I may have held the elevator door and smiled at you. To be honest, I may have stayed close to you for a moment to make sure nothing escalated, but sometimes the kindness of a stranger can turn your whole day around.

: Ride up on the elevator (smiling briefly at the family and then studiously watching the indicator lights) so the mom has some encouragement to calm down and time to do so. At most.

[lilyka]

Wow. How scary. You bet your sweet behind police would be involved! Those women had NO right to man handle you and your children like that. Its not too late to report this incident. I would notify the transit authority and the police. And perhaps social services. These ladies were either posing as child welfare workers or they have some rouge agents on their hands who are on a power trip.

In the situation I would have responded exactly like you did. Except perhaps made more of a scene. If someone one were forcing themselves on me or my children like that I would have been screaming for help!

And don't worry mama, it may not have been your most shining moment but I don't think you did anything wrong.

[RiverTam]

You know, it's easy to concentrate on what the strangers were doing, rather than what OP was doing.

OP shouldn't have been yelling at her child or throwing things at her child. OP should take responsibility for what is (AT BEST) very bad parenting and (AT WORST) abusive behavior.

Should OP go to jail? No. Should OP take a deep breath and take a look at her behavior in that moment? Yes.


Have I been there? Yes. The only thing to do is apologize to the child and work on doing better.

[nextcommercial]

I didn't read any of the replies because I'm feeling too lazy.

But, isn't it nice to know that these social workers are/were always so calm with their own kids??? Surely they never lost their cool EVER? Cuz, they are so awesome.

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by RiverTam

You know, it's easy to concentrate on what the strangers were doing, rather than what OP was doing.

OP shouldn't have been yelling at her child or throwing things at her child. OP should take responsibility for what is (AT BEST) very bad parenting and (AT WORST) abusive behavior.

Should OP go to jail? No. Should OP take a deep breath and take a look at her behavior in that moment? Yes.


Have I been there? Yes. The only thing to do is apologize to the child and work on doing better.

I'm pretty sure the OP said in her first post that she didn't think she had behaved appropriately. However, if everything happened exactly as described in the first post, I wouldn't describe her parenting in that moment as "very bad."

[Theoretica]

Honestly? I've found that when people are threatening to call the police, the best thing that can be done is exactly that. The question of who they are and what they thought they were doing would be addressed, and even if you behaved inappropriately, if they are REALLY mandated reporters....

then there job was to report. Only. Interfering isn't on their menu.