Nimbly Gnoshing our way through November Chat! - Page 3

[tsfairy]

Kathy I hope you're doing well. Wishing for speedy healing.

[lil_miss_understood]

just getting up for the day. ds2 and ds3 slept in. woke up briefly for no apparent reason, i think around the time Kathy was posting.
Kathy
in a conventional school setting words that can't be sounded out are called "sight words", Tanya. they're expected to memorize them

[tanyalynn]

I put a short story up on the whiteboard, it's about a zombie breaking in and the princess defending the (castle? house? DD assumed castle), I fit in 15/20 words on the two lists. I told her I'd come up with a new story every day--this may stretch my creativity.

This whole learning to read thing is tricky, it can be hard to figure out what she's already learned and what she hasn't--well, that's why I found a few lists and asked her to read them to me and I grabbed the ones she doesn't know. But I really feel like I'm winging it--I think that's the reason we're homeschooling, so we can make it fit where she's at, and I guess it'll get easier with each subsequent kid, but occasionally I get that fear that she's going to reach age 18, illiterate, not knowing anything but odd recipes. Not rational, I admit.

DS's glasses aren't ready yet. I am not impressed, I was told a week (it was a week yesterday) and possibly sooner. I guess the glasses not being ready is the reason no one called--I figured maybe they wrote our phone number down wrong. Bummer.

[mamafish9]

For those of you not on FB, Izzy just posted an update, Kathy is out of surgery and all went well.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by tanyalynn

That's interesting, Deb, I can try that. I've slacked some, just giving him the methyl B12 and basically forgetting the hydroxy. What do you think is a reasonable upper end for a kid without blatant signs of needing tons? I'm still working through the sublingual methyl B12, that's 2.5 mg each dose, and although there's some in the comt-- supp, I can't tell how much he absorbs.

I think total B12 matters, and also how spread out it is. What I've read says that anything more than 1000mcg an hour is pretty much wasted.

What I'd try is giving him at least 5 doses a day (before about 3pm) of at least 1000mcg at a time of B12, and see what happens. (That's about 40% of what my DS is on). See if that makes any positive differences (likely subtle, watch the bedwetting and other stuff). Just an experiment for a couple of weeks, and if it makes a difference, then you can play with dosing (timing & amounts).

Originally Posted by tsfairy

Is it even possible to do no dairy + minimal sals? Scary thought.

We spent 3 months no dairy, gluten, soy, corn, potatoes, apples, or sals (DS was extremely sals sensitive to begin with). Added sals back in very slowly. So yes, definitely possible. Learn to love lamb, beans, rice...

However, for DS, there were some other issues involved in getting his mag up, and once we did that, his sals tolerance improved a lot.

Originally Posted by changingseasons

And if so, why does everything else seem to be digested fine- just not grains or carrots?

Based on visuals, I thought DS digested everything fine except grains and nuts - turns out when we did testing he had markers for not digesting proteins (and not fats really well either). So I'm not sure poop visuals can tell you for sure digestion is going well.

Also, it's entirely possible to digest proteins & fats well, not carbs. Stomach acid matters most for proteins, I think. Starches depend on pancreatic enzymes and gut flora in the small intestines. Fat depends on bile release.

Could you try the fats appetizer idea with your DD? Give her a bit of fatty lamb 15-30 minutes before the rest of your meal? That's supposed to stimulate CCK release (which releases bile & pancreatic enzymes).

It could be though that low stomach acid means failure to trigger pancreatic juices. So maybe fat + bubbies before a meal?

Originally Posted by whoMe

Golden delicious and are low sal (and if you get them fresh from the tree, actually are delicious!) and red delicious are med-low. And its pretty easy to make your own applesauce.

I'm biased because DS still doesn't handle apples well. They are lower sals, and some varieties lower than others, but apples are still one of the big things to avoid for most sals sensitive kids. Applesauce is better, but I still think they're good to take out during initial trials - add back in once you know what baseline looks like for your kid.

Originally Posted by tanyalynn

Then that I can make spelling/reading fun for DD. She told me that she feels frustrated that she can't read more and we talked and now I've got a few word lists that I'm going to see if we can make up silly sentences, write a few out, and she can start recognizing these words (I think the trickier are the ones that can't be sounded out). Sometimes this is a bit stressful. Often fun, sometimes a good challenge, but I still feel very new.

We did something with DD that I borrowed from Waldorf, where they teach kids to read by reading stories the children wrote (OK, dictated). So I'd have DD tell me stories, and I'd type them up on the computer. Then I'd split it up into pages (a line or two a page) and let her illustrate it. Or we printed some photos into a book and let her make up the story part for each page. She loved reading from these books that were her own stories.

I also like contextual reading practice - take a book some stickies, and cover one word in a sentence, or part of a word, with the sticky. Child gets to guess the missing word/word part, which really helps build skills of figuring out a word in context (that helps build reading skills because you can read then even if you can't figure out every word).

My child is being tested for TAG today. I'm stressed, I had such a not-positive relationship in my childhood with being "smart". Not sure "gifted" is a label I'm thrilled about either, or the idea that you can't be considered gifted or talented unless you pass a test. Sigh. It's hard sometimes to keep our issues out of our kids' lives!

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Based on visuals, I thought DS digested everything fine except grains and nuts - turns out when we did testing he had markers for not digesting proteins (and not fats really well either). So I'm not sure poop visuals can tell you for sure digestion is going well.

Also, it's entirely possible to digest proteins & fats well, not carbs. Stomach acid matters most for proteins, I think. Starches depend on pancreatic enzymes and gut flora in the small intestines. Fat depends on bile release.

Could you try the fats appetizer idea with your DD? Give her a bit of fatty lamb 15-30 minutes before the rest of your meal? That's supposed to stimulate CCK release (which releases bile & pancreatic enzymes).

It could be though that low stomach acid means failure to trigger pancreatic juices. So maybe fat + bubbies before a meal?



My child is being tested for TAG today. I'm stressed, I had such a not-positive relationship in my childhood with being "smart". Not sure "gifted" is a label I'm thrilled about either, or the idea that you can't be considered gifted or talented unless you pass a test. Sigh. It's hard sometimes to keep our issues out of our kids' lives!

That is stressful. I had a pretty non-positive relationship with being "gifted" as a kid too.

hmmm... fatty lamb. If I think about it, I can try to cut some fat off her dinner steak to save, but that means she won't have much fat with the meal. The bubbies seems to be helping- the days I remembered to give it with breakfast I didn't see as much carrot in the poo.

I was looking at causes for low stomach acid last night, and came across all the usual stuff- low zinc, parasites/h.pylori... and then hypothyroidism. Have we talked about that before in relation to stomach acid? (It's very possible... I've been keeping my head in the sand about thyroid stuff.)

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

I think total B12 matters, and also how spread out it is. What I've read says that anything more than 1000mcg an hour is pretty much wasted.

But how does that relate to sublinguals vs drops/spray? Clearly the two aren't equivalent. I'd read that after the bit that's absorbed in the mouth, it takes megadoses in the gut to have any absorbed by passive diffusion (500-1000mcg+) and it sounded like more was more at that point. I wonder how much is absorption saturation vs blood saturation.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I was looking at causes for low stomach acid last night, and came across all the usual stuff- low zinc, parasites/h.pylori... and then hypothyroidism. Have we talked about that before in relation to stomach acid? (It's very possible... I've been keeping my head in the sand about thyroid stuff.)

I've seen it too. Not sure if we've talked about it much, though.

I'm also thinking about the B12/nerve angle - if the signals are all there, but the nerves aren't communicating it well, then that's going to result in low secretions as well, it seems. But I'm biased. The theme of my whole food intolerance journey has been to try stuff, discount it, then come back around and realize that tweaked slightly, it's a MAJOR variable.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by whoMe

But how does that relate to sublinguals vs drops/spray? Clearly the two aren't equivalent. I'd read that after the bit that's absorbed in the mouth, it takes megadoses in the gut to have any absorbed by passive diffusion (500-1000mcg+) and it sounded like more was more at that point. I wonder how much is absorption saturation vs blood saturation.

I think this was the level that more than saturates blood, assuming you're getting enough through (so I discount gut B12 pretty totally, although DS clearly swallows some of his drops). I assume with sublinguals/drops I'm getting that saturation. Our 1000mcg/hour approach seems to have saturated DS pretty well - doing 2000mcg every two hours is much less effective. So at least for my kid, experience supports what I read (somewhere, sometime, can't find link, LOL!)

[lil_miss_understood]

LadyLilya, if you're around... Would you mind talking to me about your housekeeping spreadsheet a bit more?
Thanks for the update, Deb. Somehow I missed it.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

I think this was the level that more than saturates blood, assuming you're getting enough through (so I discount gut B12 pretty totally, although DS clearly swallows some of his drops). I assume with sublinguals/drops I'm getting that saturation. Our 1000mcg/hour approach seems to have saturated DS pretty well - doing 2000mcg every two hours is much less effective. So at least for my kid, experience supports what I read (somewhere, sometime, can't find link, LOL!)

Our data point is that 1000mcg sublingual mb12 did nothing noticeable for dd about a year ago, but 1000mcg hydroxy drops have been the biggest supp reaction for her to date. I started at 2 drops at once, then saw a difference from spreading those drops out. While sick, dd's been loading up on the sublinguals (3-4/day), and they're definitely doing something (her mood is great) but no reaction like we're increasing. So plenty of ambiguity, but it seems like it takes a lot more of the sublinguals to equal one drop, even though they're both 1000mcg.

[mamafish9]

That's totally true, Shannon - we just use the drops, so I tend to think of those first - I think most of the sublinguals get swallowed with our kiddos (DH finds the sublinguals compare well with the drops for effectiveness, but he holds them under his tongue until they dissolve).

OK, MIL rant. She's been playing these dumb dress-up games on the computer with DD, which we decided wasn't a battle worth fighting. Last night, I walk in on her showing DD how to use google, and how to type in URLs, and writing down a list of dress up games URLs for her.

So I calmly explained to DD that the internet was a big place, not all of it OK for 7 year olds. That just like always, she needed DH or I with her if she was going to use Google, and that she could only visit sites we set her up an icon for (we create desktop shortcuts to sites she can visit). MIL's looking all mutinous, so after DD goes to bed, I show her some of the contents of the sites she put on DD's list (from lady gaga & paris hilton stuff to a game called "how far will you let him go". yeah.) And then I showed her some of the fun sites you get to searching on "dress up games" (I took my adult filters off to make a point). Her response "she's hardly going to get in any real trouble, it's only the internet". So she's banned from giving DD internet lessons now, and all bitter.

I get that she's probably clueless about the internet, and the perils of letting a very computer savvy, curious, and naive kid loose on the Google without supervision. But I also know the reason she was teaching DD how to do this and how to get to the dress up sites is because her mama doesn't let her do anything fun and girlie (the modern equivalent of sneaking her candy, I guess). Sigh. 3 more days. DH is ready to make her walk home.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

OK, MIL rant. She's been playing these dumb dress-up games on the computer with DD, which we decided wasn't a battle worth fighting. Last night, I walk in on her showing DD how to use google, and how to type in URLs, and writing down a list of dress up games URLs for her.

So I calmly explained to DD that the internet was a big place, not all of it OK for 7 year olds. That just like always, she needed DH or I with her if she was going to use Google, and that she could only visit sites we set her up an icon for (we create desktop shortcuts to sites she can visit). MIL's looking all mutinous, so after DD goes to bed, I show her some of the contents of the sites she put on DD's list (from lady gaga & paris hilton stuff to a game called "how far will you let him go". yeah.) And then I showed her some of the fun sites you get to searching on "dress up games" (I took my adult filters off to make a point). Her response "she's hardly going to get in any real trouble, it's only the internet". So she's banned from giving DD internet lessons now, and all bitter.

I get that she's probably clueless about the internet, and the perils of letting a very computer savvy, curious, and naive kid loose on the Google without supervision. But I also know the reason she was teaching DD how to do this and how to get to the dress up sites is because her mama doesn't let her do anything fun and girlie (the modern equivalent of sneaking her candy, I guess). Sigh. 3 more days. DH is ready to make her walk home.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Sigh. 3 more days. DH is ready to make her walk home.

So next time she's planning a visit, you're going to be all booked up and only have 4-5 day windows for her to come?

Maybe print some girly cut out paper dolls for them to play dress up with instead? My dd takes after MIL *so much* that I totally encourage the dollhouses and dress up stuff when they're together. They both really, really enjoy it, while I just don't.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by whoMe

So next time she's planning a visit, you're going to be all booked up and only have 4-5 day windows for her to come?

Maybe print some girly cut out paper dolls for them to play dress up with instead? My dd takes after MIL *so much* that I totally encourage the dollhouses and dress up stuff when they're together. They both really, really enjoy it, while I just don't.

Something like that, I swear!! Fortunately, DH is on board with shorter visits, so hopefully he'll be able to take care of it without to much trauma.

We had a bunch of art supplies ready for her visit (she paints, which DD loves and DH and I are awful with). The problem is that this time, DD has her own opinions about what she wants to do with the paints (startling things, like paint her pumpkin with rainbows, instead of with orange), and MIL lacks the flexibility to work things through with her (she comes from the "adults are right and kids should listen" school). So I think she switched to the computer hoping she could be in control and DD would be more "cooperative". She has this fantasy in her head of what little girls should be like (she had 3 boys), and she can't really wrap her head around a living, breathing girl child with opinions of her own (and parents who encourage her to express them). In the past, DH, DS, and I have dealt with the downside of her visits, but it's been largely upside for DD. Not so much this time .

Thanks for letting me vent - MIL is on FB, so can't vent there, and cant vent IRL until she leaves!!

[tanyalynn]

mamafish, wow. You're a good woman, and I'm very glad that you and your DH are on the same page because that makes it all so much easier. for wonderful weather, or some unexpected local event, or really anything that's fun that doesn't have as much opportunity for her to, um, express herself.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Something like that, I swear!! Fortunately, DH is on board with shorter visits, so hopefully he'll be able to take care of it without to much trauma.

We had a bunch of art supplies ready for her visit (she paints, which DD loves and DH and I are awful with). The problem is that this time, DD has her own opinions about what she wants to do with the paints (startling things, like paint her pumpkin with rainbows, instead of with orange), and MIL lacks the flexibility to work things through with her (she comes from the "adults are right and kids should listen" school). So I think she switched to the computer hoping she could be in control and DD would be more "cooperative". She has this fantasy in her head of what little girls should be like (she had 3 boys), and she can't really wrap her head around a living, breathing girl child with opinions of her own (and parents who encourage her to express them). In the past, DH, DS, and I have dealt with the downside of her visits, but it's been largely upside for DD. Not so much this time .

Thanks for letting me vent - MIL is on FB, so can't vent there, and cant vent IRL until she leaves!!

You know you can exclude certain people (or lists of people) on fb?

I guess that's where I got lucky - MIL had that same fantasy, *and* kept having kids till she got her girl. Luckily for her, that just meant 3 kids. Luckily for me, SIL was totally into dinosaurs and completely rejected all the dollhouses and girly shopping stuff. Go big brothers!

[oaksie68]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

Something like that, I swear!! Fortunately, DH is on board with shorter visits, so hopefully he'll be able to take care of it without to much trauma.

We had a bunch of art supplies ready for her visit (she paints, which DD loves and DH and I are awful with). The problem is that this time, DD has her own opinions about what she wants to do with the paints (startling things, like paint her pumpkin with rainbows, instead of with orange), and MIL lacks the flexibility to work things through with her (she comes from the "adults are right and kids should listen" school). So I think she switched to the computer hoping she could be in control and DD would be more "cooperative". She has this fantasy in her head of what little girls should be like (she had 3 boys), and she can't really wrap her head around a living, breathing girl child with opinions of her own (and parents who encourage her to express them). In the past, DH, DS, and I have dealt with the downside of her visits, but it's been largely upside for DD. Not so much this time .

Thanks for letting me vent - MIL is on FB, so can't vent there, and cant vent IRL until she leaves!!

So sorry your MIL is behaving the way she is! I unfortunately have a MIL that is also a piece of work. I'm just lucky she doesn't like to visit the desert very often. I've dealt with her need to control everything and always be right - it's very exhausting......

[lil_miss_understood]

I hope I am less of a control freak as I age.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

I hope I am less of a control freak as I age.

oooooh, me too.