How will RIC come to an end in the United States?

[So-Called]

Will it stop because of legislation? Litigation? Decreasing popularity? Will it go out with a whimper or a bang? When will we reach the tipping point (and what is that tipping point) where circumcising is no longer considered normal and OK?

I think there are a number of ways it could play out, but that it will happen. I would love to hear everyone's ideas on what they think is the most likely scenario.

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by So-Called

Will it stop because of legislation? Litigation? Decreasing popularity? Will it go out with a whimper or a bang? When will we reach the tipping point (and what is that tipping point) where circumcising is no longer considered normal and OK?

I think there are a number of ways it could play out, but that it will happen. I would love to hear everyone's ideas on what they think is the most likely scenario.

It will go out with a whimper and much too slowly. I don't think it will be considered 'not ok' until we are well below 10% for at least a generation or two.

[alegna]

Right now I'm not really sure we're on the path to seeing it end

-Angela

[MommytoB]

I think the doctors need a slap in a face from a lawyer to show how their is no benefit and kids get to risk such a serious damage to the penis .

Why does doctor want to risk a chance of damage of penis just for cosmetic purposes it's absurd .

Until that happens Circ will continue until the doctors wake up and realize they are doing harm .

Which even by law suits from botched circ's still have doctors continuing circumcisions it's like sheesh doctors will need someone from a legal point area to tell them they are harming the kids and risking harming the kids to a serious point to make them understand it !

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I honestly dont know if it will ever stop There will always be those that will circ then there will be the circ casualties later in childhood due to improper care and Dr.s will use that to keep circ going. Until it is taught in medical school to leave it alone that wont change.

[Greg B]

It will eventually stop. It is illogical, has no medical basis worth the negative consequenses, is against sexual equality, and is against human rights.

But it is so ingrained and the value of foreskin is so unknown and discounted, it is taking a long time. But in the end, RIC will be stopped.

That is my view.

Regards

[tammylsmith]

I think it has a lot to do with how quickly the US heads toward a more logical single payer healthcare system. That is what stopped it elsewhere, right?

[mrs_mandolini]

It will be on the way out when gov. run health insurance stops paying for it.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by mrs_mandolini

It will be on the way out when gov. run health insurance stops paying for it.

That needs to be all insurance. If private insurance still pays, and only medicaid stops, it could become a mark of affluence to have it done (as it was for a while in England.)

[Drummer's Wife]

I agree that all insurance companies should stop covering it, stating that it is cosmetic, and then more parents would research and possibly even have to save up to pay for it. I also agree that MD's need to be taught in medical school that there are no health related benefits - or at least that the risks and downsides outweigh any potential/possible benefits. If they felt safer, once in practice, to recommend against RIC, then more parents would opt-out.

[ElliesMomma]

i think we ARE on the path to ending it. just the fact that this forum exists, and is so helpful in educating so many people, is one indicator. and if each person who reads here tells other people, the "movement" can only grow.

and the fact that there is an intactivist movement.

and this movement is bringing to light all sorts of issues and situations.

i would love to see the physicians who perform circumcisions (OBs of all people) get sued by the men harmed as infants.

[Pumpkinheadmommy]

I think it will just fall out of favor gradually. I think so many people do it because they see it as "the thing to do" but the more they see people not doing it then the more they realize it's not the thing to do. It will snowball. It reminds me of the episode from Seinfeld when the guys decided to grow mustaches but later got tired of them. Seinfeld first, then George. Then when Kramer came in Jerry said "oh, we're not doing that anymore" so Kramer went and shaved. Here's a link to it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F4DT...ext=1&index=41

[buckeyedoc]

I agree that it will be a gradual decline. Because most parents I know IRL and on mainstream forums choose it for reasons of fitting in or matching daddy, the popularity has to dip quite a bit before many of them will feel comfortable that their child won't be teased. Losing insurance coverage would help to some degree. I am not sure it will become officially illegal (I know there are thoughts about it already being illegal), or at least not until almost no one does it anymore.

[PlainandTall]

I think that there will be a steep decline after a tipping point. If the circumcision rate was 90%... that first 20% of people needed to get it to 80% had to be independant spirits with a deep conviction in favor of genital integrity or a serious reason to avoid it- like a preemie or coming from another country where it just is never done. All the while- the other 80% are doing it because "everybody does it" gradually you get people who are cautious, researchers and questioners... they come to the question from the assumption that it's the thing to do- but they may discover that they don't really need to do it... they fall out of the mob, and you have 70% left doing it because "everybody does it"... then you have some people who wanted to do it, who aren't in the know or specially educated- but they can't do it because medicaid won't pay- so they have to live without getting it done... now you are down to 50% still doing it because "everybody does it"

Now me- you couldn't get me to do it even if 99% of people did it- I wouldn't. But we don't need to convince 99% of people to adopt my level of tenacious protection in order to get the pendulum to swing- because the majority of people are mob rules mentality and eventually ...and the rate may have to be all the way down to 20% and the myth is still being put forth that "everybody does it" when they finally catch on to that- they wil drop it too. That's why- things like medicaid - are important even if some private insurers still cover it. That big portion of the population on medicaid is a big step toward critical mass.

[Lauren82]

I honestly don't think it will due to religious reasons.

[Papai]

Insurance dropping it as a covered procedure is the only way I see it happening on a mass scale. Otherwise it's a slow battle with small victories. And that's a maybe.

[jeminijad]

Originally Posted by Lauren82

I honestly don't think it will due to religious reasons.

I don't think it will be completely gone... I suppose when I contemplate it coming to an end, I have to admit that the end will only come in Christian or secular populations, which are a majority here in the US.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by Lauren82

I honestly don't think it will due to religious reasons.

I agree. I just attended a Jewish funeral in New Jersey.... they all had bris stories to tell at one point. And they don't listen to any points an outsider may make.. it just something that is done.

[tammylsmith]

ya know... why don't insurance companies drop it? Does anybody have better insight into that question? I don't understand because it seems like they'd save a lot of $$ if they stopped covering it and it isn't like people can do anything about it. I hate how big insurance runs the US, but in that case, their bottom line seems to line up with the right thing to do in this case. People could always buy a "cosmetic surgery" rider at extra cost...

[PuppyFluffer]

I think the pressure needs to be placed on Medicaid to stop funding it. It's my understanding that the private sector insurance tends to follow the government sector in regards to health insurance.
I think an additional push - and a hugely important one - will be law suits in the private sector. The sad case of baby Mario Delgato in Florida is one to watch. (For those who are not familiar, the baby was circumcised against the mother's written and multiple verbal instructions that he was NOT to be circumcised. He spent 10 days in the NICU and on day 8, when mom went home to take a shower, he was taken from the NICU and circumcised. The hospital is claiming a misreading of the consent form. She is persuing legal action on the grounds of battery.)
Also, the boys who were circumcised after the signing of the federal law banning any form of genital cutting on minor females will be reaching legal age in about 5 years. Those young men will have a window of time (a few years depending upon the statute of limitations for their state) to seek legal action on the grounds of lack of equal protection under the law. I think the legal areana might get interesting. I hope to live long enough to see this issue before the US Supreme Court. I don't think the political climate is ready for it yet.
Right now, I think the most effective place of action is with individual parents. The medical community is far far away from ceasing to solicit circumcision but educated parents do refuse their offers. The intactivist efforts to educate individuals are very important.