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Body Scanners at Airports - Page 2

post #21 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy View Post
Except baggage flies separately from its owners all the time - lost baggage, baggage that doesn't make a connection, etc. The airlines send unaccompanied baggage regularly, bombs or no bombs.
True but that's called "involuntary" baggage rerouting. Someone would still have to check the bag in and board the flight. They couldn't arrange that it be "lost" ahead of time.

The terrorists that time simply skipped the connecting flight and the bag went on and they didn't. It was also an altitude-triggered bomb which didn't go off on the first flight. It was only when it got on the long-haul segment and got to a certain height that it went off.

After that, anyone who was offloaded, i.e. got sick, missed the flight, etc. had their bags removed before pushback. As a Flight Attendant, that caused a lot of delays but I was quick to point out to angry passengers that it was worth their while. But you're right that if your bag somehow doesn't get on a plane, it will take another flight without you, but you usually find that out when you arrive and not before.

Thanks eepster for correcting me on those creepy 3D scanners. I still understood that sonograms did use some radiation but I never looked into it. I actually specifically requested the minimum sonograms done during my pregnancies, just to be on the safe side.

For those of you who have been through these scanners, how many people (proportionally) were opting for the pat-down? Also, any special treatment when it came to children?
post #22 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalemma View Post
We travel a lot with our little one (just turned one) and are going to be opting out of the body scan on our upcoming Thanksgiving trip.

First, I don't believe that security theater makes us safer, and I think this scan violates my right to bodily privacy. (So does a pat-down, but at least that person has to look me in the eye.)

Second, I am increasingly skeptical of the assurances that the amount of radiation you're exposed to by the machines is safe. Especially when operated by poorly-trained TSA people.

Third, I flat-out don't believe the claims that images will never be saved - the TSA has already gone back on that one. Now they can be saved for "training purposes and analysis".

Finally, we pretty much already do the patdown thing, and it's not THAT bad. We don't own a stroller, so our kid gets carried in wraps and slings, etc. Every time I travel (every. time.) I offer to take him out of the carrier, put the carrier through the X-ray machine, and just walk through the metal detector holding him in arms.

Every. Time. the TSA agent says no, they're going to have to:

*wand us both
*pat down my baby
*swab my hands for explosive residue

It's silly (my son, noted baby terrorist) and irritating, but I will absolutely still choose that over the untested, record-creating, privacy-violating nonsense of the bodyscan.
Are you in the US? I've flown with my ds several times, and I always wear him through security. I NEVER have to do anything other than walk through the metal detector.

Have you tried just taking him off in preparation for going through the detectors? Don't ask, don't offer, just take him off, put the carrier through, and carry him through.
post #23 of 81
Yes - the US, although we've also flown internationally.

Security measures are heavily airport-by-airport, and at the discretion of the individual team of TSA agents. Which makes them even more questionable.

I think the extra screening for a kid in a carrier is silly, but there've been times when I'm traveling alone and it's just easier to cope with than the alternative.
post #24 of 81
We just recently flew and what the previous poster said about security measures being airport-to-airport was really highlighted for us.

I was in a wheel chair provided by the airline for both outbound and inbound flights. The treatment that I received at each airport was astonishingly different!

Outbound the TSA agent tried to do everything to keep me comfortable and from having to move (I was pregnant and had a broken rib!). Yes, I did get patted down but she barely touched me and it just wasn't an issue.

Inbound was a whole other animal. First, I had to be swabbed. Then the chair had to be swabbed. I said, "This isn't *my* wheelchair. It is the airlines." TSA, "Yes. We still have to check it." (In my mind I'm thinking this isn't good! What if something shows up on the chair!?) She pats me down *very* thoroughly and then asks if I will stand up. I said, "I'm in a wheel chair because standing and sitting hurt. I will if you need me to but isn't there someway around that?" She huffs. (I'm not sure what she would do with someone who was in their own wheelchair but surely I'm not the only person she's had to pat down in a chair before.) She finishes and then says I'll need to stand so they can swab the wheelchair's seat. Someone else tells her she doesn't need to do that. She says I can go. It was a lengthy, uncomfortable process.

So, yeah, from airport to airport things vary widely. I don't know which airport followed procedure.

Geigerin- I think the only other choice is doing the patdown in private or not flying. :/ Maybe the airports you'll be at will just have the regular detectors and not the new xray machines...best of luck!

Jenne
post #25 of 81
@ Geigerin: I don't think you have much of a choice, but you can request a private room for having the pat-down done. A woman on a flight last week had a pacemaker and they took her to a private space for the pat-down since she cannot do metal detectors nor body scanners.

I do think there is a huge difference between body scanners that use xray and 3D ultrasounds. While I personally opt against 3D ultrasounds and I am not completely convinced of ultrasound safety (I only did the anatomy scan, nothing else), it is well established that xray isn't healthy. I only accept xrays when medically indicated (e.g. I broke my leg). I don't mind the pat-down all that much, it's uncomfy, but whatever, better than radiation.. There already is enough high altitude radiation during the flight, so I'd like to keep it to a minimum.
post #26 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post
Are you in the US? I've flown with my ds several times, and I always wear him through security. I NEVER have to do anything other than walk through the metal detector.

Have you tried just taking him off in preparation for going through the detectors? Don't ask, don't offer, just take him off, put the carrier through, and carry him through.
In nearly 6 years of flying with kids I have ALWAYS have been told to take them out of the carrier. I've gone through security at SEA, PIT, DTW, ORD, LGB, and JNU -every one of them required the child be taken out of the carrier.
post #27 of 81
I have also always had to take off my infant carrier.

My DH feels very strongly about refusing the scan, not for modesty, but because he thinks it's "security theater" and fascist to boot. He really has a bee in his bonnet about it. So I plan to refuse the scan if we end up in the line that has it, and they can just feel me up in public with three kids running wild and see how they like that. (We did question whether it would bother the kids to be touched all over, but have concluded that they do not care at all.)

My fave article on the subject: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...istance/65390/
post #28 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by DahliaRW View Post
In nearly 6 years of flying with kids I have ALWAYS have been told to take them out of the carrier. I've gone through security at SEA, PIT, DTW, ORD, LGB, and JNU -every one of them required the child be taken out of the carrier.
Did you go through Seattle and Chicago recently? Maybe there's been a change of procedure in the past year? I've gone through security in SEA and ORD in the past 6/7 months, and been told to leave my kid on, and then been pulled for pat-downs, swabbing, etc.

I'm guessing there's a surprising amount of authority given to the individual TSA team, hence the amazing above story about the pregnant lady and the wheelchair. Yikes!

Smithie - your husband sounds like my husband.
post #29 of 81
Lalemma - the last tiem I flew was June. I didn't have DD in the carrier at that point because she didn't want to be. But, I did get pulled aside for a patdown because I was wearing a long skirt (this was Seattle). I don't think I was wearing her when we flew back from PIT either, but I don't remember.
post #30 of 81
I never had to take my son off when I wore him through security, but I did have to take his shoes off his little feet.

They told me that what mattered was the type of carrier he was in and how much metal was on it, and how much of my body it obstructed. I think he was in the ergo every time, but he might have been in a pouch sling.

He went through security at airports large and small and the carrier was never an issue.

I am flying tomorrow into an airport with the full body scanners--which means I will be going through security on my return trip later this week in an airport with the scanners. I honestly hadn't given it much thought until this thread. I am not currently pregnant, nor nursing, nor trying to get pregnant, nor planning to get pregnant in the next few months...

I think I will probably feel OK with the scanner in terms of safety, though I highly question their effectiveness...
post #31 of 81

I am so glad this thread was here.  I have been worrying myself sick because I will be flying with my DD for the first time this Christmas and Omaha's airport has the bodyscanners.  I am terrified they are going to pick me to go through it.  I absolutely do not want to be scanned nor do I want to be patted down and I don't want my DD to have to go through it either.  I am hoping and praying they don't pick me out of the line.. I will be wearing my DD in a sling so hopefully they will skip us.  But if they dont I honestly have no idea what I am going to do.  My DH feels the same way.  Back in August he had to fly to San Antonio for business and he was picked to go through the scanner :/  I don't want to create such a fuss and miss my flight either!  Ugh I hate how this country is treating its citizens as if we are all criminals!

post #32 of 81

Me and DS are planning on flying this coming feb, out of JFK, and I hear they either *just* got the scanners, or are getting them soon. I'm betting on being "randomly" selected for the new machines(mainly because of the loose clothing that I plan to wear), I plan on refusing for medical and religious reasons, and thus, on agreeing to a full-body pet-down lol.gif and I will be requesting it done in private(i wear loose clothes for a reason, not so random strangers can see all my curves while I am being subjected to some "enhanced pat down"!)

 

I'm a little nervous, I've never been through security with DS before!

 

I wonder what they would do if you were selected for the screening machine and you had a baby with you? surely the baby wouldn't be left outside? but how can the baby/toddler stay in the screening room? don't you have to stand still for the scan? good luck getting a kid to stay still! lol.gif

post #33 of 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izlandia View Post

I am so glad this thread was here.  I have been worrying myself sick because I will be flying with my DD for the first time this Christmas and Omaha's airport has the bodyscanners.  I am terrified they are going to pick me to go through it.  I absolutely do not want to be scanned nor do I want to be patted down and I don't want my DD to have to go through it either.  I am hoping and praying they don't pick me out of the line.. I will be wearing my DD in a sling so hopefully they will skip us.  But if they dont I honestly have no idea what I am going to do.  My DH feels the same way.  Back in August he had to fly to San Antonio for business and he was picked to go through the scanner :/  I don't want to create such a fuss and miss my flight either!  Ugh I hate how this country is treating its citizens as if we are all criminals!


They can't force you to go through it.  I guess I don't understand what you mean by "picked" to do it?  Your choices at the airport will either be to go through the scanner or go through the metal detecter and get the pat-down.  I don't think it's possible to opt out of both.  If I were you I would pick which one to do now and start trying to get used to the idea.  You don't want to go through security while looking terrified; I think that would only make TSA want to take an extra-close look at you!

post #34 of 81


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by outlier View Post

Quote:


They can't force you to go through it.  I guess I don't understand what you mean by "picked" to do it?  Your choices at the airport will either be to go through the scanner or go through the metal detecter and get the pat-down.


I don't think so, unless I'm missing a new security feature that's been implemented in the past week or two.

 

We just flew from SJC to PHX, and back, and only every once in a while was someone chosen to go through the full-body scanner.  They can opt out and choose the pat down instead.  But not everyone had to go through the scanner or the pat down.  It was random.

 

As for the carrier, I've always been allowed to walk through the metal detector with my DD in her carrier.  I just make sure ahead of time she has her shoes and jacket off and that the carrier contains nothing metal.  No problems.

post #35 of 81

Not all airports have them, and not all terminals have them.  They are not in use during all hours of the day.  They take about 45-50 seconds to process a single passenger, so they cannot be used exclusively -- it's just too slow.  Overflow goes through the metal detector.  The trick is to always be "overflow" and to look like an expert that is zero threat.

 

So far, I'm managed to dodge them every single time.  I tend to travel early in the morning, when security lines are relatively long.  I wear no loose clothing, remove any sweatshirt/jacket before entering the line.  I also use the expert traveler line.  Most of the BS scanners are on the non-expert lines.  Then I stagger my approach to the metal detector according to when they're taking a new person.  I'll let someone go ahead of me if the BS scanner is about to finish with the person in front of me, so that person gets picked.  Then get my stuff to the scanner, and they shoo me through the metal detector instead.  Probably not totally ethical, but I know the system well enough to totally dodge the screening.  Throughout the whole process, I smile, make eye contact with the TSA agents, make chit chat about the ungodly early hour or the weather, and wish everyone a good day.   This is a technique I perfected when I was flying a lot right after 9/11.  I never got myself picked for the "random" screening then, either.

 

Security theater.

 

I travel as frequently as two flights a week, so I've got quite a bit of experience on it now... orngtongue.gif

post #36 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl View Post

I have to play Devil's Advocate here. I had two coworkers who died when someone got a bomb on their flight. It was in baggage, and why baggage is not "matched" with passengers so it can't happen that way again. Both were engaged to be married (not sure if one knew, supposedly he had bought the ring and was going to propose). Two young, beautiful women who had a lot to look forward to in their lives, except both were cut short...

So needless to say, anything they want to do to keep bombs off planes is okay with me! But I appreciate the creepy aspect a lot of you are feeling. It does feel weird but I doubt it can do much damage. We may not know but we are sure the damage a bomb on an airplane does!


 

Except that forcing passengers through a screening procedure that I consider equivalent to sexual assault has nothing to do with explosives in baggage. The whole thing is security theatre at its finest. This is exactly the sort of story that the government uses to attempt to justify this sort of screening, but in reality-land explosives in baggage and strip searching of passengers are unrelated. All bags, both checked and carry-on, are already supposed to be going through some sort of screening that theoretically should find any explosives. The cockpit is already supposed to be inaccessible from the main cabin during the flight rendering anything that a passenger tried with an edged weapon fairly irrelevant to the plane staying in the air. Enough explosives to take down the plane are more likely to be carried inside a passenger than on one. Neither the naked picture machine nor the incredibly invasive pat-down procedure render flying significantly safer for either passengers or crew.

 

Also, creepy is not how I would describe the whole thing. To me it feels like being to choose my preferred form of sexual assault and that is not OK. I should get to choose who looks at naked pictures of me and I should get to choose who touches my genitals and my breasts. I should not be essentially banned from traveling because I am uncomfortable with either option.

 

ETA: I had to go through one at SFO about a month ago and I still feel invaded by the experience. The general atmosphere did not make opting out feel like a good idea. I did not see them select anyone with kid while I was in line though.

post #37 of 81

This post talks about how useless these machines are, and how there are NO long term studies on their affect on humans.  I would never go through one of them and luckily was not chosen to go through the one at the Omaha airport.  I don't remember if there were any or not at the Baltimore airport.  I was also allowed to keep DD in her carrier and just walk through the metal detectors.  But I doubt I will be so lucky again.  I would probably let DD be patted down, but only if I didn't really have a choice but to travel by plane (if you need to be on the other side of the country and only have a week off of work, driving isn't an option.)  In a few days we are going to be driving 16 hours to see my family, I'm not looking forward to it with a 9 month old, but it beats the airport!

 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/01/06/5-reasons-body-scanners-might-not-solve-our-terrorism-problem/

 

post #38 of 81


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by outlier View Post

They can't force you to go through it.  I guess I don't understand what you mean by "picked" to do it?  Your choices at the airport will either be to go through the scanner or go through the metal detecter and get the pat-down.  I don't think it's possible to opt out of both.  If I were you I would pick which one to do now and start trying to get used to the idea.  You don't want to go through security while looking terrified; I think that would only make TSA want to take an extra-close look at you!


They choose people at random to go through the body scanner.  If you opt out then you get an enhanced pat down.  I am going to stand in the metal detector line like everyone else.  I am terrified of being picked at random is my problem.  I will do my best to look calm, but if they pick me to go through the body scanner I will probably start shaking and crying.  I was molested when I was 4 so I hope you can understand my terror.

post #39 of 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izlandia View Post

Quote:
They choose people at random to go through the body scanner.  If you opt out then you get an enhanced pat down.  I am going to stand in the metal detector line like everyone else.  I am terrified of being picked at random is my problem.  I will do my best to look calm, but if they pick me to go through the body scanner I will probably start shaking and crying.  I was molested when I was 4 so I hope you can understand my terror.


I'm very sorry to hear that.  Of course your terror is completely understandable, and I really hope you're not picked.  :hug

 

I guess when I went through the airport that has them, I was there at a time when they were scanning or patting down absolutely everyone (lucky me!), so I misunderstood what the new procedure was.  My mistake.  Now I'm kind of pissed that I (a 7 months pregnant woman in not-loose clothing at the time) had to go through this crap!

post #40 of 81

What I wonder is how they will do it if you have a baby?

 

I am going to be flying at christmas with a five-year-old and a 10-month-old baby and I really don't know what to do.

 

If it were just me, I could deal with either the freaky xray machine or the intrusive groping. I dislike both, but I can handle it. But I don't want to give so much radiation to my 5 yr old (plus the naked photo) and I really don't want to have her touched all over, she is a very reserved girl and it's totally scary and inappropriate.

 

And what about the baby! I mean, can you even fit in the xray thing holding a baby? Where does the kid stand? Are they going to poke and prod my baby in an "enhanced pat down"?

 

I am not very modest, nor very easily fussed, but I am actually reconsidering my holiday plans now.

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