2E kid - meeting with the school - please help me prepare

[hergrace]

As you may remember, DS1 is 2E, highly quirky and emotionally intense with a diagnosis of ADHD and identified fine motor control and working memory issues. I also suspect sensory issues and almost every teacher he has had is shocked to discover that the assessment we had done last spring ruled out Asperger's. His school situation was bad and we moved him to a new school in mid-October. The goal was to manage his challenges in an environment that could also cater to his gifts.

The principal and Special Ed teacher at the new school assured me that they would be incontact with his previous school prior to his starting so that they could replicate the strategies that had worked in the past and start to assess appropriate differentiation.

I have reason to believe that in fact that communication happened two weeks after he started, and the transition has been awful. Whatever intervention they are doing when a situation arises is clearly aggravating things and they trigger devolving spirals that end up with him lashing out like a caged animal. Scary for everybody concerned.

At the same time, they have done nothing that I can see to provide him with any differentiation to play to his strengths.

He will not be in school for the next few days and I have a meeting on Wednesday morning with the school. As far as I am concerned, this is their last chance to prove to me that they can provide an appropriate environment for my son. This is our last school option and if I remove him from this environment, I will need to homeschool him - which is a result I have been trying to avoid for reasons related to my own needs.

I need help figuring out what questions to ask and what expectations are reasonable. I understand that they need to be concerned about the safety issues, but they seem unwilling to acknowledge that their actions might be part of the problem. The principal seems to be overwhelmed by DS1 and she is passive aggressive in sharing what she wants from me. When she has called me to ask me to come in to diffuse a situation that has gotten out of hand, she has never once directly asked me to come in. I have had to ask her exactly what she wants me to do in order for her to say it. I feel like I need to be incredibly prepared for this meeting for it to stand any chance of it doing any good.

TIA

[straighthaircurly]

I am so sorry to hear that things have not gotten off to a good start. I feel very lucky that my 2E DS has had inredibly patient and flexible teachers who have really "gotten" DS.

Here are some strategies I have used with the school whenever we change teachers:

1) I provide a written summary of DS's quirks and talents and personality. I include strategies for defusing his emotional meltdowns.

2) I provide a written list of classroom strategies, most of which were provided by his occupational therapist (and some additions from me).

3) Does your DS have an IEP in place? If he doesn't qualify for an IEP, then ask for a 504 Plan.

$) Provide copies of all assessments from professionals.

5) I volunteer in the classroom weekly. Teachers always appreciate someone to help put up bulletin boards, make copies, cut out flashcards, etc. It porvides me with an opportunity to observe the classroom environment so that I can better understand the triggers for DS.

6) To address differentiation, first find out what the school offers. Is the differentiation for other kids taking place in the classroom or pull-out? How do they assess who receives differentiation? Bring past standardized test results for your DS as well as any gifted assessments. Listen a lot until you have a clear understanding of the options (volunteering helps with this also ). If doing an IEP or 504 plan with the school be sure to have academic differentiation written into it.

You mention in your post that you suspect sensory issues. Please get an assessment for this so that the school, your DS, and you can start to put sensory strategies in place. You also don't mention whether he is on medication for the ADHD diagnisis. I am not one to jump on the medication bandwagon, but I know kids who are on very light dosages. It doesn't make them "foggy" or change the core of their personality, but allows them to "self-control" their behavior in the school setting. DS's best friend is one of them. He was nearly impossible to be around in situations that required some cooperation and common sense self-control decisions. He is still bright, sparkly, and energetic. But now he says he can make himself stop a behavior when asked. Before that he expressed great frustration that he felt he was tying to follow teacher instruction but just couldn't.

Good luck and power to you for advocating for your child. It can be a long road but jumping from school to school will not improve things. Make sure you exhaust all avenues (usually takes at least 1/2 a school year. And remember that schools usually move at a pace that seems very slow too us.

[hergrace]

Originally Posted by straighthaircurly

I am so sorry to hear that things have not gotten off to a good start. I feel very lucky that my 2E DS has had inredibly patient and flexible teachers who have really "gotten" DS.

Here are some strategies I have used with the school whenever we change teachers:

1) I provide a written summary of DS's quirks and talents and personality. I include strategies for defusing his emotional meltdowns.

2) I provide a written list of classroom strategies, most of which were provided by his occupational therapist (and some additions from me).

3) Does your DS have an IEP in place? If he doesn't qualify for an IEP, then ask for a 504 Plan.

$) Provide copies of all assessments from professionals.

5) I volunteer in the classroom weekly. Teachers always appreciate someone to help put up bulletin boards, make copies, cut out flashcards, etc. It porvides me with an opportunity to observe the classroom environment so that I can better understand the triggers for DS.

6) To address differentiation, first find out what the school offers. Is the differentiation for other kids taking place in the classroom or pull-out? How do they assess who receives differentiation? Bring past standardized test results for your DS as well as any gifted assessments. Listen a lot until you have a clear understanding of the options (volunteering helps with this also ). If doing an IEP or 504 plan with the school be sure to have academic differentiation written into it.

You mention in your post that you suspect sensory issues. Please get an assessment for this so that the school, your DS, and you can start to put sensory strategies in place. You also don't mention whether he is on medication for the ADHD diagnisis. I am not one to jump on the medication bandwagon, but I know kids who are on very light dosages. It doesn't make them "foggy" or change the core of their personality, but allows them to "self-control" their behavior in the school setting. DS's best friend is one of them. He was nearly impossible to be around in situations that required some cooperation and common sense self-control decisions. He is still bright, sparkly, and energetic. But now he says he can make himself stop a behavior when asked. Before that he expressed great frustration that he felt he was tying to follow teacher instruction but just couldn't.

Good luck and power to you for advocating for your child. It can be a long road but jumping from school to school will not improve things. Make sure you exhaust all avenues (usually takes at least 1/2 a school year. And remember that schools usually move at a pace that seems very slow too us.

Thank you. I know that schools move slowly, but unless they can start turning things around soon, we will have wasted most of this year because he never does well in January after Christmas break and he will struggle with February because his teacher in going on maternity leave. In a lot of ways I would rather have him home, where at least I know he will learn something. I'm not expecting magic tomorrow, but unless they convince me that there is something they can do and are willing to do, I am not willing to wait around and see.

Most of the things you suggest, I have already done, except the volunteering. In general, the school does not provide differentiation for children before grade 4 other than in reading instruction, so I am pushing them way out of their comfort zone asking for anything at all, but without differentiation, DS has no interest in being at school at all.

DH is unwilling to consider medication for DS, but I have reached a point where I am willing to consider it.

As for the sensory issues, he is on a waiting list for assessment through government provided services. We cannot afford to have him assessed privately.

Part of the problem is that I do not understand what is going on at the school that they are pushing him in the wrong directions, because the reporting of incidents to me does not make sense.

He does not have an IEP in place and clearly I need to get one.

It doesn't help that DS had the Special Ed Recource Teacher for junior and senior kindergarten and she was not a good support for him then and I don't see any evidence that she is any better in her new role.

[Freeman]

Hugs! I am sorry that you are going through this. I would definitely ask to observe so that you can help determine what may be triggering him and how they could better handle the incidents. I would also make sure that they have an accurate assessment of his strengths so that appropriate differentiation can be given. Coming up with some concrete examples of how differentiation in specific areas could help diffuse the outburts may make it more likely for them to be on board.

[joensally]

He has the same resource teacher now that he had in JK and SK?

Why was this school chosen after FI? Locale or resources?

Is there a district staff SN person involved? Does he have a gifted IEP? Have you been in contact with your local gifted group - they appear to be pretty active in your locale. Who made the ADHD diagnosis, and by what means?

Is there a distributed learning program where you are? It can be a nice HS hybrid - kids attend a small number of days over the year and they provide some resources and curriculum.

I see a lot of parallels between our boys, and we HS'd grade 1 because school was just too much for him. I wanted his differences and him to be honoured, not squashed. We found a remarkable program for gr2 and he's now in his second successful year there. It's still hard and bumpy, but he's happy overall. I think that year out made a huge difference for DS, and we may HS future years as needed.

I don't care if he learns anything "academic" in these early years as he's way ahead, or will figure it out on his own living in our family. I want him to learn self-regulation, compromise as appropriate, printing, social skills etc. I only care that he not get bogged down with a bunch of repetitive, unengaging stuff because I want him to continue to feel passionate about learning. I found it easier to focus on what he really needed when I let curricular stuff go. DS is extremely self-directed and learns what he needs when he gets to need it, so I don't worry about this for the primary years.

I have a jumble of other ideas and some resources to link, will come back later to do so and look forward to more information .

(on a side note, really, they've never encountered a kid with this constellation of issues? they're not so rare that at the district level they shouldn't have someone who has some experience, insight and strategies)

[hergrace]

Originally Posted by joensally

He has the same resource teacher now that he had in JK and SK?

She was his classroom teacher in JK/SK and is now the resource teacher at the school. The school he is at now is our local public school. They have good experience dealing with kids on the spectrum, but they tend to ignore giftedness until kids are tested in grade 3 and shipped off to another school for grade 4.

Originally Posted by joensally

Is there a district staff SN person involved? Does he have a gifted IEP? Have you been in contact with your local gifted group - they appear to be pretty active in your locale. Who made the ADHD diagnosis, and by what means?

There is not a district SN person involved yet. He is close to the top of her list.

The ADHD diagnosis was made by a private psychologist who did a psychoeducational assessment. I am skeptical of the diagnosis because I think his lack of appropriate stimulation and sensory issues have not been fully explored. But, he does have working memory and executive function issues.
We need to get him an IEP.

I can't find a gifted group that is active with folks in my school district. The Toronto group is active, but it is an entirely different district and their gifted programming is very different. I keep looking.

Originally Posted by joensally

Is there a distributed learning program where you are? It can be a nice HS hybrid - kids attend a small number of days over the year and they provide some resources and curriculum.

I can't find anything that looks appropriate. Which is a shame as I think it might be the best model for us.

Originally Posted by joensally

I see a lot of parallels between our boys, and we HS'd grade 1 because school was just too much for him. I wanted his differences and him to be honoured, not squashed. We found a remarkable program for gr2 and he's now in his second successful year there. It's still hard and bumpy, but he's happy overall. I think that year out made a huge difference for DS, and we may HS future years as needed.

I don't care if he learns anything "academic" in these early years as he's way ahead, or will figure it out on his own living in our family. I want him to learn self-regulation, compromise as appropriate, printing, social skills etc. I only care that he not get bogged down with a bunch of repetitive, unengaging stuff because I want him to continue to feel passionate about learning. I found it easier to focus on what he really needed when I let curricular stuff go. DS is extremely self-directed and learns what he needs when he gets to need it, so I don't worry about this for the primary years.

That all sounds familiar. My guy appears to have given up on school as a place for learning.

Originally Posted by joensally

(on a side note, really, they've never encountered a kid with this constellation of issues? they're not so rare that at the district level they shouldn't have someone who has some experience, insight and strategies)

I would expect somebody at the district to have some insight. But I don't know who and how to get them involved. At the FI school, the relevant people hadn't seen such extremes, but had some ideas and had an opportunity to get to know him and came to really like him and actively investigate how to help. If the folks at this school could get to that point, I am sure that we could make some improvements, but we need to get past this breakdown and make some improvement before there is any chance of that.

Thanks as always for your support.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by hergrace

The ADHD diagnosis was made by a private psychologist who did a psychoeducational assessment. I am skeptical of the diagnosis because I think his lack of appropriate stimulation and sensory issues have not been fully explored. But, he does have working memory and executive function issues.
We need to get him an IEP.

It's more common for gifted kids to have slower (average range but slow relative to the other test areas) processing and working memory.

Do you have access to academic journals? There's some work done on this issue of misdiagnosis of ADHD, although a lot of it is "opinion." But it comes down to ADHD is supposed to be a diagnosis made after other possible explanations have been ruled out - such as giftedness and sensory issues. One can be gifted and have ADHD, but manifestations of giftedness can mirror ADHD. My point is that we need to call things by their right names in order to properly identify strategies which are more likely to be successful. If his academic needs are being met, and his sensory needs are being met and he's still exhibiting challenging behaviours, then you "treat" ADHD. We are lucky because school personnel understand this for the most part. I said from the outset of kindie that I didn't think he had ADHD or ASD and that we'd be doing him a disservice if we used those types of intervention strategies when his primary issues were sensory, OEs and divergent thinking. Between some maturing on his part and some appropriate accomodations on the adults' parts, things are going well overall.

Originally Posted by hergrace

I would expect somebody at the district to have some insight. But I don't know who and how to get them involved. At the FI school, the relevant people hadn't seen such extremes, but had some ideas and had an opportunity to get to know him and came to really like him and actively investigate how to help. If the folks at this school could get to that point, I am sure that we could make some improvements, but we need to get past this breakdown and make some improvement before there is any chance of that.

I should have framed that rant a little bit differently. It was reflective of my frustration with our school district who treat these situations in isolation and as though they're entirely novel - when I actually know a number of primary-aged gifted boys who are struggling.

Do you know any parents who have experience with the principal? Could they offer insight into her style and what works for her? It sounds like she may be key to making this work.

This is a relatively short and compelling article on sensory and attention that school staff may be willing to read:
http://www.neurolearning.com/Library...ory-processing

Part of it is a shift in thinking. A previous resource teacher put everything in the behaviour box, as though there was decision-making happening and driving every "misbehaviour." Of course her approach was shaming and punitive, which did not work. If we address DS's sensory needs, thus keeping his anxiety down and his prefrontal cortex active, he's actually able to make choices. A shift in teacher thinking has made a world of difference.

In your shoes, I'd push HARD on the sensory angle, as if that can be addressed he'll be in a positive cycle in his relationships with staff and his peers. Is there an OT through the SD that can be accessed for an assessment, or if s/he can't do an assessment, could she do an observation/classroom consult while waiting for the assessment?

[hergrace]

Originally Posted by joensally

It's more common for gifted kids to have slower (average range but slow relative to the other test areas) processing and working memory.

DS1 actually has working memory that is quite low compared to average if I remember correctly. I'll be reviewing all the numbers again tonight.

ETA: I was wrong. The working memory and processing speed were high average.

Originally Posted by joensally

Do you have access to academic journals? There's some work done on this issue of misdiagnosis of ADHD, although a lot of it is "opinion." But it comes down to ADHD is supposed to be a diagnosis made after other possible explanations have been ruled out - such as giftedness and sensory issues.

I don't have access to the journals, but I am familiar with the work.

Originally Posted by joensally

Do you know any parents who have experience with the principal? Could they offer insight into her style and what works for her? It sounds like she may be key to making this work.

I have been reluctant to talk to the one person I know who has good experience with the principal for various reasons. It might be time for me to find a way to talk to her without giving her more information than I am comfortable with.

Originally Posted by joensally

In your shoes, I'd push HARD on the sensory angle, as if that can be addressed he'll be in a positive cycle in his relationships with staff and his peers. Is there an OT through the SD that can be accessed for an assessment, or if s/he can't do an assessment, could she do an observation/classroom consult while waiting for the assessment?

I think I need to, though I am not quite sure what I can do without a formal assessment.
He's on the waitlist for assessment at two places - one through the Ministry of Health and one through the SD, but he isn't likely to come up for assessment at either place until late Spring. I need to find out what it will cost to just get an assessment done privately because I know we don't have the money for private therapy. The SD assessment is one of these things where it is an outside agency working for the school district rather than an internal person and they never get involved before their caseload says they have to. Arrrgh!

At his last school, he started out being physically aggressive and then became anxious and was stimming a lot as he was able to contain the aggression. Now, he is back to the aggressive response to stressors. The stimming was annoying, but it got a totally different response from the administration than the aggression. Now that I have seen that pattern (which just clicked now), I have some ideas. What helped at the previous school was adding some quiet intellectual reading at his level to his day. And, when they saw what he was reading for pleasure, it clued them in to the fact that they had really underestimated the gifted elements. Maybe that will help here, too.

The FI program had no resources to stimulate him intellectually without taking him out of the French program for large portions of the day, which is why we moved schools. So, maybe this is all part of the process of getting to where we need to be in a few months. I certainly hope so.

[hergrace]

Thanks for the support.

I actually had a good meeting with the support team this morning. I went in asking lots of questions and listening and they got a chance to show me that they really have been thinking about things. We came up with some good ideas of things. My guess is that they will be slower to implement things than I hope, but they are heading in the right direction.

I am very relieved because I feel much better about having him at the school than I did a couple of days ago.

[eepster]

I'm glad your meeting went well. I did have some thoughts though while reading this thread. I don't know if it's stuff that came up in the meeting anyway, but it might help.

Originally Posted by hergrace

The principal seems to be overwhelmed by DS1 and she is passive aggressive in sharing what she wants from me. When she has called me to ask me to come in to diffuse a situation that has gotten out of hand, she has never once directly asked me to come in. I have had to ask her exactly what she wants me to do in order for her to say it.

You going in to the school might be part of the problem. I realized towards the end of the year last year that sometimes DS would deliberately act as horrible as possible in order to get me to come and take him home.

DS has always been reluctant to have bowel movements in certain places, and school is one of those places. When DS has been holding it in for a while, his need for sensory stimulation sky rockets, which causes him to lash out.

After one such violet outburst near the beginning of the school year, I was asked to pick DS up from school. When I got there he was pretty out of control. I took him home and he went up to the bathroom. Though he was somewhat calmer after using the bathroom, things were still pretty tense. Gradually as I picked him up each time he had lashed out badly enough to get sent home, he seemed more and more calm when I arrived. Also, his teachers were reporting less build up to each episode.

It finally came to me, that he was simply doing what he knew would make me come get him as soon as he needed to poop.

Originally Posted by Freeman

I would definitely ask to observe so that you can help determine what may be triggering him and how they could better handle the incidents.

Even though the meeting went well, I would still recommended this. Sometime the little strategies you've developed for handling certain situations aren't the sort of thing it occurs to you to share.

As example, when I observed one day, DS was pretending to be a train and running around the other students who were gathering for circle (it is a Montessori, so circle time is optional, but if you choose not to participate you need to not disrupt the circle.) DS's teachers were unable to settle him down for quite a bit. I can always settle DS down very quickly when he is being a train though. It is as simple as telling him to go to his spot in the round house.