Homelearners Making the Best of Public Education

[widemouthedfrog]

Ok, this is kind of a downer title, but that's how I feel. After a year of part time alternate school and homeschooling, dd will be attending our local public school next year. Full days. This makes me feel sad. I will miss her terribly, and I am sure that she'd be happier doing what we are doing right now. Dh is a public school teacher and so were my inlaws, and this is important to all of them. I got this year off through much desperate negotiation, but next year we're going to school.

If you'd really prefer to be a homeschooling family but your kid(s) go to public school (private is not an option either), what do you do to make it work for you?

My thoughts so far:

- Ask for a teacher who loves active kids and enjoys parent volunteers (apparently one of the grade one teachers can't stand parent volunteers and does worksheets all day. I will seriously cry if dd gets this one). With a loving teacher who enjoys active kids, I think that she would do well.

- Volunteer at the school 1 day/week (and if she gets the teacher above, this won't be in her class, unfortunately)

- Bring dd home for lunch as often as possible.

- Take a day off "sick" a couple of times a month just to relax and maybe go on a field trip.

- Plan a big trip in the spring (a few weeks of very educational stuff, of course)

- Continue planning a BIG trip for when she is 8-9 years old (6 months in Switzerland, we hope).

- Work to change the school system as a whole to see what we (and other families) would like to have - for example, strong outdoor education programs.

- Continue to negotiate future home learning (dh is more ok with it during the middle school years)

I'm stuck on the area of extracurricular activities. I think dd will be so tired with this schedule, but then again I'd like to leave work early one day to go to music with her.

Any other thoughts about how I can make this experience a good one?

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by widemouthedfrog

I will miss her terribly, and I am sure that she'd be happier doing what we are doing right now.

find something to do with yourself and try, for her sake, to be more positive. You being really negative will make it harder for her. Even if she likes school (and she may) she'll end up feeling like she's being disloyal to you.

- Volunteer at the school 1 day/week (and if she gets the teacher above, this won't be in her class, unfortunately)

I love volunteering as both a playground monitor and in the library.

- Take a day off "sick" a couple of times a month just to relax and maybe go on a field trip.

I think this is a bad idea. It's send her very mixed messages. Schools have days off all the time, and early releases for meetings. Make the most of that time, but let her go to school when school is in session.

My kids homeschooled until they were 10 and 12 and are now THRIVING in school.

[mattemma04]

When my kids were in public school I was on the verge of truancy for my ds,because I did not give a doctors note with every day I called him off.So I don't think taking days off will be an option unless the school accepts you on your word alone.

I would volunteer in the class and on the playground.Not enough supervision on playgrounds.

My kids are in Montessori now and all I care about is that they are happy.They might gripe about the work at times,but if they are happy overall then we just get through the grumpies.Every year I ask them if they want to return.We have sign ups in the spring for the next year.

I do let my kids know that there are many schooling options out there.Even something as simple as a class change in public school(to get away from a downer teacher or students) can make the world of difference.


Once I put my kids in public school it was expected that they would stay.If they had been happy I would have been fine with it,but dd was bored and ds bullied.I eventually pulled them and since dh wanted them *in a school* I found Montessori. With all the teachers in your family it will be hard to switch if needed,but if things do not work out definitely look into other options.

I agree that you need to be super positive for the kids,and remind them that their happiness is what matters.Kids spend much of their time in school,so it needs to be a good fit for them.

Keep dd in for lunch.That is the only time they have to chat with friends other than recess.She will seriously miss that if she is coming home often to eat with you.

Encourage a school garden.School pets or hatching eggs. I got the chickens my dd's class hatched.The teacher also gave me their red wiggler worms.

Hope she has a great time and if not then hopefully your dh will be open to finding something better for her.

[LynnS6]

I think you can make this more positive by being positive yourself. Make a list for yourself: What will your daughter experience by going to school that you can't easily do at home? (Positive stuff only!)

Asking for a teacher who likes active kids and volunteering is a great way to be involved in the school. Consider working with the Parent-Teacher Organization to get things like outdoor education started.

Now for the bad news: I think if you're going to have your child in school you need to give it a fair shot. That means buying in, for the year, to the school schedule and the school routine. It means being positive for your child's sake. Some kids do better homeschooled, but some do better at school. You don't know yet which group your child fits in.

I would not take my child out of school often at all. Not only will you run up against truancy, your child will miss instruction, and she'll miss the social interactions. Instruction takes more time in school because there's less one-on-one. Furthermore, I think you'll find that they get enough in-service days off to not make this necessary. Our kids have at least 2 days a month off, not including Thanksgiving, Winter Break and Spring break. It drives me batty!

Ditto for lunch -- lunch is the time when kids get in social interactions. If she's gone for lunch, she could miss out on the social time she needs with the other kids. If that happens, she'll feel like an outsider and that is not good.

A big trip in the spring? Several weeks off school? Why? Spring is when they actually do get outside and often when they take field trips. Do you want your child to miss out on that? How are you going to swing that with your dh being a teacher? Is he going to miss several weeks too? It sounds to me like you're trying to do an end run around going to school. What is that you fear so much ?

[EFmom]

Much of what you propose is going to depend very much on the school district.

Ask for a teacher who loves active kids and enjoys parent volunteers

Our district will not entertain any requests for particular teachers, period.

- Volunteer at the school 1 day/week

For many teachers in many grades, this would be too much for them. We've had one or two teachers who liked parent volunteers, but usually only to accomplish given tasks, not on an ongoing basis.

- Bring dd home for lunch as often as possible.

My kids get 20 minutes for lunch, so going home isn't an option really.

- Take a day off "sick" a couple of times a month just to relax and maybe go on a field trip.

I think this is a very bad idea and you will be setting your child up for all sorts of problems. It fosters the attitude that school isn't important and they will miss a lot of work that they will have to make up. You have weekends and vacations to relax. That's what they are there for.

- Plan a big trip in the spring (a few weeks of very educational stuff, of course)

This would be unexcused in our district and state. In many places, more than a few days of unexcused absence will trigger all sorts of stuff you don't want.

- Work to change the school system as a whole to see what we (and other families) would like to have - for example, strong outdoor education programs.

This is a nice idea. I don't think you're going to get a great deal of buy-in from the school though. The teachers and administrators are under huge pressure to conform to state standards, raise test scores (no matter how high they may already be) and are facing dreadful budgetary conditions. Strong outdoor education programs may not be much of a priority. You may also be surprised at how many parents are also obsessed with tests scores and traditional educational practices, like giving loads of homework.

I'm stuck on the area of extracurricular activities. I think dd will be so tired with this schedule, but then again I'd like to leave work early one day to go to music with her

.

My kids do tons, and I do mean tons, of extracurricular stuff through the school.

I agree with the others that you having a positive attitude will be a huge help to your child. Thinking of ways to avoid school at every turn isn't going to be helpful.

[MsBirdie]

We switched to schooling after we HSed and I think choosing a school that fit in with our philosophies helped a lot(We did a charter school started up by many HSing families). Consequently, we have a modified year round so DD has long weekends and weeks off everytime I turn around. (No need to take her out). They also encourage parent volunteers in the classroom and around school.

That being said, I think taking DD out all the time is a bad idea. She will miss information, and could feel behind, creating a lost and negative feeling towards school.

Also, lunch is the best time for her to socialize with her friends and she probably will only have 30 minutes anyways. Could you meet her for lunch in her cafeteria and bring her special lunch every now and then? Then, you can also meet her friends.

I say, give school a try. She may thrive. Mine did so much better at school than HSing. If not, you can always briing her home.


A positive attitude, and putting your best effort into the school option, I think, is the only way to see which option truly is best for your DD.

[Emmeline II]

Taking several weeks off is not going to be an option, but you may be able to take a week off at an odd time or add on to an existing vacation by asking the school to consider it an independent study.

As for the big trip to Switzerland, you'd likely have to formally withdraw her and perhaps comply with whatever the laws are in Switzerland. Someone posted here a few months ago (American) whose dh had a job in Germany (working for DODDs I think?) and had a problem because she wanted to pull her child due to a bulling situation that wasn't being handled well, but German law required ALL children to be in a recognized school, expats or otherwise.

Also, lunchtime at public schools are short; even if it was allowed (my BIL attended school on a military base in Italy that followed the local custom of having children eat lunch at home) you wouldn't have much time.

[BetsyNY]

This is us, to a T...my sons have special needs and right now they're both in great programs. No charter schools or "school choice" here (we live in a rural area), but they both seem to be happy and thriving.

I agree with the other posters--I think that with school, you're either in or your out. Having said that, when we have a choice I do empower my kids to be themselves and exercise their autonomy--ie, my one son's teacher wanted the kids all to dress alike for the school Halloween parade, and my son wanted to wear his costume. So he wore his costume. Homework is optional, and many times we don't do it--they're simply so tired from the day, and I don't want to sour them on school when they seem to be doing well there.

[domesticidyll]

I am a former ps-er now turned (happy) homeschooler, so I am very sympathetic to your situation.

My understanding is that many districts do frown on requests for specific teachers, but it is often more acceptable, as you say, to ask *them* to choose someone. I know I often felt torn about how much to advocate for my child--too much, and I could see myself becoming That Parent, with negative fallout for my child. But this kind of request seems like a real collaborative effort, with you putting trust in them, and unless you specifically that your principal frowns on it, this seems reasonable.

In my district, schools lose funding for students who miss four or fewer days, or who leave before lunch. BUT students who miss a full week or more can do an official leave--take home a few worksheets to keep afloat in class, and the school keeps the funding. I don't see this as especially irresponsible, perhaps because there were a number of kids in our school last year who did so to go to Disneyland, family trip, etc. Frankly, in early elementary school, the child is not missing much that a parent can't help fill in. The individual days here and there are more disruptive because the teacher often has projects that spread over a few days and the time to catch up each individual student after a missed day takes time from other kids (can't be helped for illness, etc., but it does take a small toll on the classroom).

Even if your teacher frowns upon weekly volunteering, you may be able to help the lunch and yard duties, or in the library, or in the office.

I'm not sure I'd encourage you to be positive so much as open to letting the experience be what it is for your child. And going in ahead of time knowing that this may be different from your preferences.

Buying in can be hard. It was for us. And I was surprised by the degree to which we were asked to buy in. I don't mean to discourage you, but to validate that, IME, some of the concerns are authentic. It still is what it is, and you're still signing up for it, but for me it was more helpful to think, "No, I don't like this, let's figure out a good way to handle it."

You might want to talk to your DH ahead of time so you are on the same page about how much you let the school shape the rest of your lives. For me, some of the issues that came up were: Do I keep pushing the teacher to give DS challenging work? (No. It wasn't working.) Do I let her persuade me to stop encouraging learning at home? (No. It was working.) Do I let DS stay at school until 5:30 so he can see his friends in aftercare? (No. Six hours is enough.) Do I let him get cafeteria lunch? (Occasionally, but not regularly.) Do I buy him some new clothes so he can dress more like his friends: plain white athletic socks, particular style hat and gloves, more boyish backpack? (Yes.)

I apologize for posting negatively about school on the school board. I mean to say: if embracing feels like a hard order right now, maybe just try making peace with it.

Heather

[kathymuggle]

[Callimom]

I agree with much of what Heather said.

We sent DS to school for K and part of grade one because we felt we "should" given our life situation at that time. I was really conflicted about it and we ended up homeschooling early in gr 1.

To be honest I tried much of what you suggested and but my heart wasn't in it and it ended up making our experience of school worse because it became clear that school was not a good fit for my son and that our family values were not lined up with those of our neighbourhood school and public school in general.

IF you can stand some BTDT, I think in your shoes I would do a couple of things.

I would try to make peace with the school system and try to be open minded about it. I think it is harder on everyone (parents and children) if the parents are conflicted about it.

I would negotiate with DH where the line in the sand would be for us as a family about education, figure out what battles you want to fight and then try to let all the other stuff go. I wish I had been clearer about this for myself.

I would NOT volunteer in the class right away. I would probably try to volunteer in other ways at least initially - perhaps taking on the outdoor ed piece. IME volunteering in the class made me and by extention my son even more conflicted about school. Things might have gone smoother had I waited for my son to feel more settled. (on the other hand his gr 1 teacher was such a bad fit for him that I am not sure he ever would have settled in that class.)


I would look into "excused absences". In Ontario (and perhaps where you are?) you can pull your child out of school for up to 1/2 a day a week for music lessons as an excused absence. I have a friend who scheduled her child's music lesson just after lunch on Wednesdays so she would pick him up at lunch and they would eat together, then do music and then have the rest of the afternoon to explore other things (museums, nature walks, field trips etc). This really helped get him through a year w a bad teacher and helped them connect. IMO the instruction time lost, especially in the early years, was far less valulable than the freedom and hands on educational opportunities that gave them.

I think I would limit other absences, mental health days etc to later in the year. Routine and consistency are likely a good thing for helping your child settle into the class.

Good luck!
Karen

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I could chime in a bit with our school experience though we're not homeschoolers. I tend to be a mama who loves the idea of school but is pretty critical of how schools are typically run.

I agree with a lot of what's been said regarding some of your pull out plans.

I tend to think pull out for lunch could be problematic because it's such a social part of the day and it is really such a small amount of time. Our school allows parents to volunteer during lunch so that may be a good compromise.

Our school *would* allow for an extended vacation for your family. Funding here is not based on daily attendance like it is in some states. Ask the school how they can/will work with you. Like a PP said, extended time off can be made up with homestudy.

Other ways to make things work:

Consider carpooling for after school playdates
Consider any choice school options
Ask your DC's teacher if you can do something in the classroom after class (I sharpened pencils ever Wednesday after school and DC got to share her environment with me then)

And, I do agree that making a list of positives are a great idea!! Good luck.

[widemouthedfrog]

Hi all - I think that I forgot to subscribe to my own thread and just thought no one had replied. Thanks for all of the replies - digesting and will be back with more thoughts soon.

[sunanthem]

We are former H.S.ers and had to put our kids in Public school so we could go to school also. I volunteer 4 hours a week (1 day) at my son's school, but I don't work in his class, I work mostly next door at the library. Public schools love volunteers and need all the help they can get. This way I can pop into his class, his classmates get to know me, I can get to know all the teachers not just his classroom teacher. I also occasionally go to school and eat lunch with him and his classmates, they all love this, even the other kids think it's cool.

Just try to get involved with whatever you can at the school, PTO! Parent nights, field trips, after school clubs....

Talk to parents who have already had their kids at the school in the grade your child will be in and ask who their favorite teacher was then request that teacher.

We don't pull them out too often but you can have an approved absence if you want to take them on an educational field trip or something, but it must be pre approved.

[widemouthedfrog]

Ok, here goes:

Socializing

Good point about lunch. She’ll be there for lunch 3 times a week while I work. I would pull her twice a week. I won’t do it if she doesn’t want to do it, but if she does want to, I will. Her lunch will be 55 minutes, and since we only live 5 minutes from the school that would work well. A lot of the kids in our complex come home for lunch a few times a week.

Right now she is going to a democratic school three ½ days a week and she is free to socialize as much or as little as she wants, so in some ways she will get less free socializing time at public school, I’d imagine.

Teachers

You are right, we can’t specify teachers here but we CAN write a note describing our child and what sort of a teacher she would thrive with. It’s a fine line.

I would do this because I am quite concerned that she will get the teacher who gets the kids to do worksheets all day and sends them home with a pile of them to do at night. I just don’t think that is appropriate for grade one. While dd likes worksheets some of the time, she’s also a very kinaesthetic kid who would get downright bored doing worksheets constantly.

Absences

You may have convinced me part way about the absences. I agree that a solid routine will be key. I suspect (although I can’t find the documentation for this) that here the truancy restrictions are a lot more lax than in the States, unless you are absent a lot of the time. I don’t think that we need to provide a doctor’s note for absences – it’s just a call in line. I vividly recall that my parents let us skip school sometimes to go skiing, for example. In fact, this is one of the great memories of my childhood – the fact that my parents let us have those special days upon occasion.

Extended Absences

I went on a big trip with my parents (as did we all) in grade 6 for 3 weeks. I know a number of other parents who have done the same, so I don’t think that it crosses any boundaries here. I will need to make that clear with the teacher and principal and get homework for the trip, I am sure. I looked on the school web site and extended absences are allowed, they are just not encouraged.

Dh rarely (ok, never) goes with us on big trips. He doesn’t like travel at all, except to the cabin. I adore travel. One of the “rules” of our marriage is that if I make extra money to travel, I can go ... and since I am the primary parent day and night, I travel with dd.  Now that she remembers and thinks about her experiences even more, it’s become a good opportunity to broaden her experience of the world. This January, we’re going away for almost 4 weeks to Costa Rica. I did this pre-dd as well.

Volunteering

I was planning to do this with the school as a whole, although ideally I’d like to volunteer with dd’s class as well. I’ll do whatever is required as long as I think it’s useful. Another great childhood memory is the fact that my parents were so involved in my school.

For those who mentioned that I could bring her home – this is not a choice I am making. I would like her home, dh wants her in school, she wants to be home at the moment. Dh would only change his mind if she was very unhappy or when she is 10-14 he might consider homeschooling again. IMHO, private school is not an option. Dh is just as much against that as he is against hs-ing, and hs-ing is cheaper and more attractive for us.

What is it that I fear about school?

Dd will be our only child, and I fear losing my connection with her. Really, that’s the key for me. I don’t think it’s about me and I don’t think it’s about her – it’s really about us.

I also want her to feel less stressed out and constrained than I did as a student. I excelled in school. I am sure that she will too. She is bright and very verbal and is gradually working on her reading, writing and math. She has a great attitude toward learning and I think that she will thrive in any environment right now.

However, as a bright little girl I felt a lot of pressure to conform to society’s ideals of success and to get very good grades, especially in subjects like math. I do think that some of the messages I give myself to this day started back then, and I’d like dd have the freedom to pursue what excites and interests her. I want an environment that supports that, whether it is school, homelearning, or a bit of both.

FWIW, I’m trying to be positive about this year and next year with my dd. I haven’t communicated all of this to her.

Ok, my next question if you’ve gotten this far:

How do you support a good, close family relationship with your school-aged child? What does this look like, week by week and day by day? I want our family to be her anchor, and I feel that school will pull her away.

I think that this is the longest post I’ve ever written here!

[Linda on the move]

I can't get the quote above my response! Oh well.

I think that it is natural for children to have a broader world as they get older, but I also think it is *natural* to stay close as a family while this is happening. Family dinners are a big thing for us, and we each say one thing we are grateful for about our day. I read a chapter of a book every night out loud, and it's a warm fuzzy time. We also connect by taking care of things (like our pets, our garden, baking, etc.)

Every weekend, we plan a "family fun activity." It could be anything from going to see a movie together to hiking in the mountains. We try to have a board game night once a week too, but we aren't as consistent about this as the other things.   We make our kids activities, such as a swim meet or a play, part of what our family is about. Rather than seeing their bigger worlds as things that pull us apart, we see them as ways to be supportive and connected.

One thing that pops to my mind that sort of relates is that when my kids were homeschooling, we often didn't have much to say to each other at dinner because we'd spent ALL DAY together. Now we have better conversations.

Originally Posted by widemouthedfrog Ok, my next question if you’ve gotten this far:

How do you support a good, close family relationship with your school-aged child? What does this look like, week by week and day by day? I want our family to be her anchor, and I feel that school will pull her away.\

[sebandg'smama]

Have you read "Hold on to your Kids: Why Parents Matter More than Peers" ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold_on_to_Your_Kids_(book)

It gives great tips on staying connected.

My is in grade 6 now  and I have always done the things you stated in your first post!  Well with the exception of an extended trip - I'd love to do that!

Both my kids benefit from a break occasionally at lunch time.  They have tons of time to be social during other recesses and after school.  I let them know they are always welcome to come home or to stay at school, whatever they want.  I follow their lead.

I have found that field trips with the class are less and less these days so I love pulling my kids out to go to our own "field trip".  I have always let the teacher know what we are doing and they have without exception been supportive.  We make sure to pick up any work that dc might miss that day.

Here in Ontario, the Education Act allows children to miss half a day once a week for music or language instruction outside of school.  So I find a time in the school day (asking the teacher first what is the least disruptive time) to have piano lessons.

As for volunteering I think it is so good to try and be in the classroom. I try and be really supportive of the teachers in every way.  They have a tough job and appreciate willing hands.  Anything political/philosophical disagreement wise I bring  up in other venues like parent council.  Again in a co-operative spirit not argumentative.  

You are the expert on your child and most teachers will want you to be an active part in your child's education.  

-Melanie