Is it a 2yo thing or the daycare?

[Love4Vayla]

Hi everyone. I'm a WOHM to a 33 month old girly girl. I've been back to work since she was 3 months old. Over the past 6 months or so, since she has become highly verbal, every single morning she cries and says things like "I don't want to go to "Suzy's" house. They're mean to me. They scrape me! I want to stay home!" She attends full-time (7:45 - 4:45) daycare at the home of an attachment parenting mama of 3 kids (8 & 5 year old boys, and 3 year old girl).

I've noticed that her kids have a hard time sharing "their" toys, but "Suzy" says that they only do that when people are around. Ok, fine. Also, her home is not very organized. It's not filthy, but it could use some serious straightening up and cleaning IMHO. But I'm a bit of a neat-freak, so I could be biased. But I have met other moms that have chosen not to send their kids there b/c of that issue alone (my SIL included). It is off-putting (the mess), but it's something I can deal with b/c she feeds healthy lunches and honestly seems to care about my DD. But maybe my DD has a hard time with the chaos? She's very particular about where things go. And I've had other people tell me that she has absolutely no control over her own children, especially in public (like when observed at the library).

What are some issues you encountered with at-home daycare? And how did you find a resolution? How do you respond when your kids say they don't want to go to daycare/school?

I can't stay home...I'd love to but I just can't. We couldn't afford to right now and it makes me so sad. Sometimes I cry on my way to work b/c I just hate this all so much. But would finding a new daycare be a solution? She was originally at a center for 2 years and has been at the in-home care for the last 9 months.

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

I would take your DDs word seriously.

I, personally, have a hard time with in home daycare where the provider has their own children in the house, and it isnt someone i know very well. The children who live there will feel put upon naturally, and might get territorial. And you never know how the provider is going to side when things get dicey. Afterall, those are THIER kids, you know. Instinct says you automatically takes your childs defense.

As a child, I was in a home before and after school for a couple years, and it was HELL for me. The woman would make me sit down in the family room all by myself (she had 2 boys my age) because she didnt want me "getting in the way" of her boys getting ready for school. I was a distraction. Also, she yelled, ALOT, and i would actually be scared of what I might do that might set her off. Very uncomfortable situation. But I NEVER.SAID.A.WORD. EVER. And I should have. I was so freaking relieved when my mother found somewhere else for me to go before and after school. I told her about it years later, and she was so upset with herself for NOT seeing it herself. She cried and asked me why I never said anything.

Listen to your DD. If people are mean to her, its probably true.

I don't mean to be harsh, but I would like to help someone NOT have the same experience I did when I was a child.

NO flames from in home providers please. I understand that my experience clouds my judgment on the scenerio, and I have trouble staying nuetral. this is all just based on my experience.

[caenach]

It doesn't sound like you find the situation entirely ideal and it seems like you have some level of discomfort with the care situation. Have you looked into any other options (either in-home or centers)? If so, did you feel that they had more issues/less issues/just different issues? What were your reasons for removing her, initially, from the center and going to this particular in-home provider? Do those still apply?

What benefits, other than healthy lunches, do you think your DD gets from the current situation? Does your DD seem to have a close bond to the children or "Suzy?" Does she get to do things she wouldn't get to do in other situations? Is she actively nurtured or just sort of turned loose? What kinds of ordered activity are there, since that seems to be something that your DD might respond to?

I guess I think it's probably always hard to know. In many ways, I like DD's DCP, but sometimes I have issues or doubts about whether it's the best situation for her. She's 2. Some mornings she's very clear on the fact that she does not want to go. It happens less and less as she realizes that she doesn't have a choice, I think. I'm sure it's hard for a little person to understand. It's hard for me, sometimes, too!

Still, DD has a very close connection to several of the women who work at her daycare center. She has very close connections to several of the children. I feel that, all things told, she would grieve the loss of those relationships if we moved her. I do try to "balance" some of the challenges presented by our DC situation. For instance, DD can be sensitive to noise and chaos, so I try to make sure we have quieter/less stimulating time together right after daycare. We talk about "work" a lot. She's been to visit my workplace. At home, we play games where DD leaves me to "go to work" and I am sad. I've talked with her about what kind of transition she wants (she wants me to read her one story at drop-off before I leave). It seems to help.

[Love4Vayla]

Originally Posted by caenach

Have you looked into any other options (either in-home or centers)? If so, did you feel that they had more issues/less issues/just different issues? What were your reasons for removing her, initially, from the center and going to this particular in-home provider? Do those still apply?

What benefits, other than healthy lunches, do you think your DD gets from the current situation? Does your DD seem to have a close bond to the children or "Suzy?" Does she get to do things she wouldn't get to do in other situations? Is she actively nurtured or just sort of turned loose? What kinds of ordered activity are there, since that seems to be something that your DD might respond to?

I'll try to respond to your questions: I am looking into other options right now. I wanted to enroll her at a Montessori as soon as she was eligible (33 months old), but we can't afford the extra $400/month. Other in-home centers that I've looked at have felt downright dangerous and overwhelming to me, and I couldn't imagine putting her in those places. This was supposed to be a happy medium. I removed her from the daycare center because the director said to me one day "Your daughter's tantrums are beyond the realm of normal." That, for me, was the very last straw and there was much more to it than that, but I don't think they were prepared or willing to handle my daughters particular personality. I absolutely loved one of the teachers in the infant room, but was always wary of the discipline styles and general demeanor of the rest of the staff. Sure enough, when she moved into the toddler room, she was not given the attention that she needed and was acting out of frustration.

I'm not sure what kinds of ordered activities there are at the home. I know that they go out to play a few times a day, either in the yard or at a park. On Fridays they attend a homeschool art/gym co-op. The schedule is typical, with breakfast, lunch, snacks, and free play. Sometimes I know that she pushes the naps to a bit later than I would like, which annoys me (like 2:00 versus my preference for 12:30/1:00).

As far as benefits go? That's a great question. I'm honestly not sure I can come up with a detailed list. She gets to be herself. She gets to get dirty and have lots of free play...which is starting to sound like she's sort of "turned loose" as you said, but compared to the center it's what I was looking for. She does love the children, especially the middle son. He's quieter than the other two and likes to give hugs and kisses. The older one is super in-your-face and doesn't understand personal boundaries, and my DD needs space sometimes. I'm not sure that she gets to do things that she might not otherwise. They go on field trips occasionally, to pick berries, to a farm, or to the library. But we do that as a family, so that's not a huge issue for me.

She does initiate role play about having to go to work, and I sit and say "Ok, see you later! I love you!" She's always the mom and I'm the baby. We're very close and she's very much a mama's girl, always has been. I will ask her about what she wants to do to transition into her day, that's something that I think she would respond well to. Thank you!

[oaktreemama]

I can't stay home...I'd love to but I just can't. We couldn't afford to right now and it makes me so sad. Sometimes I cry on my way to work b/c I just hate this all so much.

Aw hugs to you. Listen-and I know it is easy to type this-A LOT easier-than it is to live this. But, one thing that helped me tremendously was to let go of the guilt of working. I have to work. No ifs ands or buts. And since I have to, I decided to let go of the guilt about daycare because it won't magically change the situation. It was keeping me from enjoying the time I do have with my son. Guilt is a heavy emotion to carry around.

The other thing I will mention is a purposely chose a center based dcp. I did not want my son in a private home. I won't go into all my reasoning but some of the things you have mentioned were certainly a factor in my decision.

I love my dcp. It is a wonderful center and I looked long and hard and was on a waiting list. But it was worth it!! You will lose nothing by searching around for other providers. There are great centers out there filled with people who really care about kids.

Good luck.

[rivkah]

Please don't worry about not being able to stay home. You are obviously a great mama.

I would agree with PP's. Something does seem right to you and your DD, then it probably isn't. My advice is to keep looking. I know good DC can be hard to find, but I wouldn't give up just yet.

[beebalmmama]

I actually did the opposite with my son in respect to a center and a in home daycare. He was in an in home daycare at 18 months. He was very reserved and attached to me and I thought a home setting with less children would be beneficial to him. It was a SAHM with a 5 yr old and a 1 yr old. It turned out to be a good situation, but the SAHM ended up having too much on her plate in regards to extended family needs.
Anyway we then moved him to a daycare center when he was 2. I really thought it was too much, to many kids, too much schedule, too many rules (this part was too much for me). He did okay but I don't think he was very happy or feeling more comfortable there for a long time.

But when he went into the 3 year old room it was a HUGE difference. I think it was partly the teacher (one he really connected with) and also developmentally he was ready. It still took him time to interact during activities (not free play time), but that was also his personality.

My point is, is that the schedule that didn't work for your daughter before may be okay now that she is a little older. Also the center/director/teacher can all make a big difference.

[bluebunny]

What are some issues you encountered with at-home daycare? And how did you find a resolution? How do you respond when your kids say they don't want to go to daycare/school?

My DD1 was in an at-home daycare from January to July of this year. She started Montessori in August. I took her out four weeks early because the daycare provider and I decided it wasn't working. My DD cried every single time I took her there. The provider said DD stopped crying after awhile and usually had a good time playing. DD always seemed happy when I picked her up. At home, DD occasionally complained about the provider, particularly about being biased towards her own child. I felt a bit uneasy about it but the provider assured me DD was happy the majority of the time. The home was always clean and the provider sent the parents a weekly schedule -- a short lesson plan was included. I pulled DD out early because the crying and protesting about going escalated the last month. I couldn't put my finger on why things were getting worse, rather than better. I talked to the provider and we agreed it was best if I found something else.

As for what I did all those mornings when DD would protest/cry about going, well, I tried to remain calm and not show DD how upset it made me. I told her matter-of-factly that I had to go to work and that she had to go to X's house and that I would pick her up as soon as I could.

The first six weeks at Montessori, DD cried every morning. It was torture. In fact, she wimpered the first hour at school, too. She has had a hard time being away from me. This is the second week of school that DD has gotten dressed and gone to school happily. I think she's finally turned a corner.

I would suggest that you look into another option if you also have reservations on top of what your DD says. You might find that another center would be a better fit now that she is older.

[treeoflife3]

I guess my question would be what does she mean by 'they scrape me.' What does she mean by scraping? and who is 'they?' the kids? the adult? everyone? being 'mean' can be pretty subjective, especially with a young audience, but scraping... I wonder what exactly that is in this scenario. Is something happening to her physically? Is it a random word she is using thinking you'll listen better, much like how kids use the ambiguous 'mean?'

[Qestia]

I've posted here about my issues with our daycare. It's kind of the opposite situation, I loved our home daycare provider -- who has an older daughter (12) who is 1. in school all day and 2. awesome with the kids -- but left it to take an opening in the toddler room at the preschool my older child had attended (he's now in Kindergarten) because 1. he had a great experience there and 2. it's SO much closer to our house (10 min walk vs. 20-30 min drive). And at first things were fine, DD loved her school, she started in summer while DS was still there and liked seeing him, the teachers were terrific. Then, DS went to K, the center got a new director who I cannot stand, and all of the morning teachers left. Their replacements are pretty good, but the person who is there first thing to greet us is not very warm--she's fine I think but doesn't get all bubbly over DD. If the assistant teacher is also in the room when DD arrives DD is fine at drop off. This hasn't been the case all week and all week she has had miserable drop offs even though when she sees the building in the morning she says "Yay!"

I don't know what to tell you. I'm mainly posting here to see what people say! But I'm also curious--what does "scrape" mean?

[nextcommercial]

I do daycare, and most of these kids go through a bout of "I don't want to go". Usually it's around 3-ish. Then, it gets bad again around age five.

The age five one, I can vouch for the kids here..... I have very little for that age to do. They are ready to move on. I'm fine for summers, but for that six months before kindergarten, it can be long and boring. Even I am ready for them to go by August.

My house is cluttered by 8:00 a.m. But, it's clean. By 4:30, it's uncluttered and ready to be a house again. (I move everything into the daycare room at the end of the day)

The daycare kids have their own toys, so there is no fighting with my kids over sharing. It's very, very hard for our own kids to share their things. It's always better if the provider makes some daycare only toys, and puts them away at the end of the day.

We have our bad times during the year. Just before Christmas, and at the end of May (the teacher's kids are ready to be done) But, except for those two times, the kids all come in happy and ready to play and learn.

I doubt anybody is mean to your daughter, or scrapes her. But, I wouldn't be surprised if she's picking up on the "My mommy!" and "MY toys" vibe that the provider's kids are giving off. I'm sure the provider is very good, loving and honestly enjoys having your daughter there. I bet even the kids miss her when she's not there... but, they still have the possessive feeling, and it might show to your daughter.

It can get pretty bad too... my daughter was honestly a brat for a while when she was little..... I'm surprised anybody brought their kids over to my house for a while... she was downright mean. By age four, she realized that these kids were her best friends, and she changed her "MINE" attitude and became very enjoyable.

[Love4Vayla]

Originally Posted by treeoflife3

I guess my question would be what does she mean by 'they scrape me.' What does she mean by scraping? and who is 'they?' the kids? the adult? everyone? being 'mean' can be pretty subjective, especially with a young audience, but scraping... I wonder what exactly that is in this scenario. Is something happening to her physically? Is it a random word she is using thinking you'll listen better, much like how kids use the ambiguous 'mean?'

Honestly, I'm not sure what she means by scrape either. And I'm not sure how seriously to take it, which sounds really awful to say, but she's learning how her words have impact and maybe she sees/hears my reaction and is putting 2 and 2 together. I don't get a written (or verbal) report at the end of the day saying that she got into a scuffle like I would get nearly every week at the center with things like "she pushed another girl and the girl pushed her back and she scraped her leg." I get nothing. I think one solution to this problem would be to ask for more information from the DCP.

As for an update, I spoke with the DCP this morning about the fact that I'm having some issues, and I could tell she was offended by the look on her face. She said that I need to schedule an appt with her to talk about the issues I'm having, instead of "offloading" on her in the mornings, which made her feel bad. I will schedule a time with her away from her home and her kids, or at the very least put it in writing, but I don't just want it to be a gripe session. I honestly think that she believes she's doing her best. And many of the issues that I'm having get personal b/c they are about her daycare style, the cleanliness and orderliness of her home, and her own children. It's more personal for her b/c it IS her home, but to me I see it as a business and it should be run to certain standards. I'm going to do my best to stay impartial and just talk about what's bothering me. She also asked me to suggest solutions for what I think could help the situation.

1) DD cries nearly every morning before we arrive, starting before we leave the house. I'm not sure what the solution is to that, besides say what I've been saying forever: I have to work.

2) DD claims that the children are "mean", they scrape her, and push her. Solution: Daily reports of any negative encounters so that I can be aware of what's going on.

3) DD claims that the children don't share their toys. I might suggest designating some toys as "special" for her kids and that they be kept away, so that they toys that are out are not "theirs" to say "MINE!" about. I can't do much about the "my mommy!" thing, but maybe this would help with the possessiveness issue that I've noticed. I've SEEN her youngest TEAR toys out of my DDs hands.

3) The orderliness, cleanliness, and general upkeep of the house is troublesome. There is not a designated space to hang coats/hats or put shoes. They are dropped into a heap near the front door onto an overflowing basket of the family's shoes. The kitchen table is filled with "stuff" from the night before and you can't see the countertops. There is a huge bucket toys in the living room that is overflowing by a lot. Books are overflowing and sliding off the bookshelves. It's difficult to walk up the stairs b/c they are covered with clothes. The toys outside are dirty and some of them are broken and need to be thrown away: A pair of her pants got super stained bc she went down a muddy slide. Can't she spray the toys off with a hose? Some of the fence posts are broken and dangerous-looking. The recycling bin sits on the back porch, with easy access to the sharp edges of aluminum cans (I noticed this morning). A bag of batteries sits on the back porch, too. What if someone popped one in his/her mouth? OMG!

Wow. Yeah, I'm going to continue my hunt for a new daycare. Writing this down makes it sounds pretty darn awful, and not a good fit for our family. It's too bad though, because we share a lot of the same ideals: attachment parenting, extended breastfeeding and child-led weaning, home birth, natural and traditional foods, etc, etc. We both participate in a raw milk share and share a mutual friend who drops off eggs every 2 weeks. But those are all things that I enjoy and have little to do with the quality of her daycare.

[Qestia]

Can I gently suggest that you look for a licensed family daycare? The licensing board would never allow the things you list about the state of the premises. That sounds very concerning to me.

[oaktreemama]

The stairs being covered with clothes on its own would have me looking for a new place. That is not a safe or clean way to live.

[Love4Vayla]

She IS licensed for 12! I imagine she whips it into shape when getting inspected. I just thought I was a neat-freak (my husband tells me so anyhow), but when I wrote it all down I was shocked that I've been "ok" with it for 2 months now.

[Qestia]

really? Did she tell you that or did you check the state website? She sounds way out of compliance. Yeah... I think it's possible to find someone who will respect your values and give your chid a better environment and experience... good luck!

[Love4Vayla]

I checked the website.

I am getting close to a decision. I'm looking to enroll her in the Montessori that we fell in love with this past winter. It's near our house. It's more expensive so we can't afford full time care there, but we will figure out how to make it work. It feels peaceful when we go there. I need that, our family needs that, and I'm sure she will blossom there. I'm hoping to make arrangements with other families to handle after school care, kind of a barter system if you will. She just became eligible on Oct 16th to attend. I hope this works out, but I'll keep looking if not.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, ideas, and replies.