How do I tell the kids

[lilyka]

That they do not get to spend christmas eve or Christrmas morning at home? They don't get to go to their church? We never ever get to have any traditions of fun things for us because it is different every year and some years they won't even see me? I get them for a few hours Christmas afternoon. But we have, up unto this point had Christmas eve. It was huge and we had been building some really great traditions and he doesn't even care. He doesn't care that he is selfishly taking all this from him. He managed to completely ruin holidays for me and we were finally starting to reclaim them and enjoy them and now he is dead set on doing whatever thing he wants (meeting his girlfriend, the former mistress, and dragging them along) regardless of what we do as a family.

They are going to be crushed. What do I do? Would it be better to tell them now or wait until closer to Christmas?

[Avani]

I'm so sorry. I just found out last night that I don't get my children for all of Thanksgiving break and also all of Christmas break. That means I won't see my 3,5,8 and 10 year old for 6 days of Thanksgiving break and then 15 days of Christmas break. I can't see them or celebrate the holidays with them. I have never once in my life or their lives ever been absent from any holiday. The judge ruled in my ex's favor because my ex hasn't been able to celebrate with them for four years. The thing is that happened because he never came to visit them. He had supervised visitation rights for 3 of those years and never once came or called them. Not once. And now I can't see my own kids for all of those breaks. I don't even get any leeway days during those breaks to celebrate with my own children. I don't get how I birth them, raise them their whole lives and solely support them and now this I'm heartbroken. I have already started preparing my kids for this because they are so excited for the holiday season here at our home with our friends. ANd now they can't have that. They don't want to go and i'm trying to explain they have to. My kids will celebrate xmas and thanksgiving with my abusive ex and his mistress. Seriously I just can't fathom it yet. Unbelievable.

Sorry to hijack. I just found out. Like I said I already started preparing them. Hope you can figure out a positive way to deal with this also.

[PoppyMama]

That sucks so much. I know it doesn't make it not hurt but one thing I did was go a bit traditional with the calendar. I only ended up losing one year and he hasn't acknowledged them on Christmas since but I liked the older calendar better so I try to keep it...I'm catholic so some of these days won't work for everyone. There is dec 5 for mother Mary and the 12th is st. Nicholas day we don't decorate until Christmas eve (the tree anyway) and then it's left up until kings day which is the day I like to do presents (a bonus is you can hit after holiday sales).

[PoppyMama]

Forgot to say that I would tell them now.

[NolaRiordan]

I'm sorry. I know this is hard. But why can you only celebrate all your traditions on the day itself? Why not do everything you normally do either before they leave or when they come back? Then they get to celebrate twice, and they won't miss out on anything.

[Everrgreen]

I'm so sorry That really sucks for both your kids and for you.

I agree that you should tell them now. Maybe you can sit down with them and make them part of planning the celebrations you will have together, even if they won't be on the actual day.

[PoppyMama]

Originally Posted by NolaRiordan

I'm sorry. I know this is hard. But why can you only celebrate all your traditions on the day itself? Why not do everything you normally do either before they leave or when they come back? Then they get to celebrate twice, and they won't miss out on anything.

The OP and her children are Orthodox, her x isn't, si it's really not the same as celebrating a secular Christmas. They will have to make do but they will definitely be missing out.

[doubledutch]

Originally Posted by lilyka

That they do not get to spend christmas eve or Christrmas morning at home? They don't get to go to their church? We never ever get to have any traditions of fun things for us because it is different every year and some years they won't even see me? I get them for a few hours Christmas afternoon. But we have, up unto this point had Christmas eve. It was huge and we had been building some really great traditions and he doesn't even care. He doesn't care that he is selfishly taking all this from him. He managed to completely ruin holidays for me and we were finally starting to reclaim them and enjoy them and now he is dead set on doing whatever thing he wants (meeting his girlfriend, the former mistress, and dragging them along) regardless of what we do as a family.

They are going to be crushed. What do I do? Would it be better to tell them now or wait until closer to Christmas?

the better way, for them, would be to say none of the above. maybe you already know that and just needed to get it out, but please don't tell your kids they don't "get to" spend christmas at home, that they never get to have any traditions, that their father is taking this from them because he's selfish and doesn't care. that message would be devastating to them.

tell them that they get to spend christmas with daddy this year; that you will be following the traditions you've established with them, thinking of them while you do it, and that any time they think about you on christmas eve and christmas day, they'll know exactly what you are doing! tell them you hope next year it will be back to the fun traditions they are used to with you, but that they will have a good time with their dad this year.

because honestly, even though they will be disappointed to miss out on their usual christmas with you, they could have a fantastic christmas. their chances of that are greatly influenced by the way you frame it. they are looking to you to see what their emotions should be, how they should react, and whether it's even okay for them to be excited about seeing their dad or to tell you they had a great time.

i'm really very sorry this is happening. ritual and tradition are super important to me, too. hopefully while you are separated from your children, those traditions will be a comfort to you.

[lilyka]

except they are going to know I am right down the block all alone. They are not little (14, 10.5 and 8). They know that if dad wanted to, he could celebrate Christmas with them and they could still be at their house with their mom having their traditions. That are important to them. They already know their dad butts in regardless of what they want, more concerned about what he is entitled to than their desires. They are already expressing a desire to not go to visits because it interferes with what they want to do and they hate missing church. They know it prevents us from going on trips or to summer camp. They cannot just go to Christmas Liturgy some other time. We cannot just break the Nativity fast some other time. It happens when it happens and it happens that way for a reason. It is what it is. I realized today I cannot afford to drop $200 on dresses they will never wear so they will miss out on all the excitement of getting ready and buying Christmas dresses and all that. and they were so excited about that and having portraits done. Our parish does host an old calendar liturgy but I will probably have to work that day. I get Christmas day off and only Christmas day. No exceptions. I am sure they will have fun with their dads family but then they will also be upset to have missed everything good that we can't go back on. (his family all lives here as well. The only person they are likely to see that they do not usually see is the mistress/girlfriend who they do not like.)

He asked me to celebrate with him and his family but there is no way. I did that for 25 years without regard for what I wanted, no traditions, something different every year. absolutely ruined Christmas for us. Its finally turning into something to look forward to. Now it sucks. and I would be tagging along, ignored and awkward, missing what little I have left of Christmas, pretending I am not absolutely grieving inside for all he has taken from me. And they are going to know. Its not like it will just be Christmas somewhere else. it will be fun and then they will come home and it will be ok kids have fun today mommy has to go to work. don't watch too much TV and clean your rooms and don't overload on junk food. (although if we are not breaking the fast together chances are we will have normal food around anyway).

[lilyka]

ugh. I have made it worse. I told him he could come to church with us. can there be a more awkward humiliating situation? The girls will be uncomfortable and he will be gathering ways to knit pick and underhandedly undermine their faith. he hates our church and thinks it all pagan. He doesn't understand it or try to see the beauty in it and does everything in his power to prevent me from taking them. Since they are not there every sunday the miss better than half of all the religious ed (its not fluff and crafts and rock music. it is more catechism), they won't be able to participate in the Christmas program since they are not there every week. now he will have more reasons to hate our faith and will tell them their church is bad and wrong. He will twist what we believe and systematically chip away at it. I wish we could just have our family traditions.

[PoppyMama]

That really stinks, lilyka. Just a thought...have you talked to your priest about this situation. I know a few Catholics who have partially homeschooled religious ed or gotten it moved to a different time and had someone volunteer to teach. You're not the only person in this situation but I know that the Orthodox community is smaller and therefore has fewer remedies than the Catholic community.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Will you have them every other year for x-mas eve? Then you can have your traditions at your place, and he can have his at his place, and you will each get every other x-mas eve and x-mas morning.

I know its not perfect, nothing ever is when it comes to families. I know it isn't fair, to few things are.

[lilyka]

no there is no guarantee that I will have them any christmas eve or morning. The only thing it addresses is Christmas afternoon and evening. It just depends on the school schedule and where my half falls and where his half falls. Its dumb. And every other year really doesn't make for a tradition. M is only going to be home for another 4 Christmas's.

I told them tonight and they cried.

[Avani]

Can you modify this. So that at the very least you get one year he gets the next?

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by lilyka

no there is no guarantee that I will have them any christmas eve or morning. The only thing it addresses is Christmas afternoon and evening. It just depends on the school schedule and where my half falls and where his half falls. Its dumb. And every other year really doesn't make for a tradition. M is only going to be home for another 4 Christmas's.

I told them tonight and they cried.

I know that its hard to have traditions only every other year. In families that have to share holidays though, it is sometimes the best we can do. I know that doesn't make it any easier emotionally, but it would give you (and the kids) something to look forward to.

Is there a way to modify it? It sounds like you live close together (although I could be very wrong about this), and if you do, there should be a way to make it so that you get x-mas eve and x-mas morning one year, and then you trade the next year.

[doubledutch]

m's only going to be home for four more christmases? why because then she turns 18? why would that mean she no longer comes home for christmas? i do . . . and i get to choose what my plans are, because i'm an adult. so once she's 18 she can spend every christmas with you if she wants to, right? maybe there is something i'm missing, like she's going to be in a foreign country. if so, i'm sorry for not understanding.

i'm sorry that your kids are disappointed.

i'm also wondering if there is a way to define on paper what your plans are going to be for christmas eve and christmas morning going forward. if not, why not?

[lovedmom]

Can't you get your lawyer involved to enforce anything?

[lilyka]

There is nothing to enforce. The way I understand the document is that no one is guaranteed Christmas eve or day. Just their half of the school vacation which is getting shorter and shorter every year and who ever does not have them Christmas morning by default gets them Christmas afternoon. I would need to go to court and change the custody agreement to get something better. I don't know how hard that or if that will open the flood gates for him to start dinking with crap. He is unlimited time and money. I have neither. He has minimum visitation and can only get more. I know he wants more control/power in this situation.

Yes M will be 18 in in four years. She may or may not come home. She may want to hang out with her sisters. I guess L will 15 and I doubt anyone will be able to make that child do anything she does not intend to do when she is that age but neither one of them will ditch Ava. So if Ava has to go to her dads then the other two would do it just out of solidarity (and I would expect nothing less of them). Besides if there are no tradition, nothing to look forward to what separates it from any other day?

PoppyMama~ we have the stuff and can do it at home. But they hate missing it and missing the discussion and getting to form those bonds with the other kids at church. Its hard being Orthodox in the middle of South Dakota. They need that time to feel normal. Actually since the divorce my church has not had a children's program for Christmas. My kids make up a large part of the Church school program and another family got a divorce and we are all on the same visitation schedule so every other week the Church school is a ghost town. Without consistency it is hard to pull off even a little Christmas program. My priest is very aware of the situation and has been nothing but supportive in all things. But obviously he can't rearrange things like Liturgy and stuff.

[lovedmom]

Originally Posted by lilyka

There is nothing to enforce. The way I understand the document is that no one is guaranteed Christmas eve or day. Just their half of the school vacation which is getting shorter and shorter every year and who ever does not have them Christmas morning by default gets them Christmas afternoon. I would need to go to court and change the custody agreement to get something better. I don't know how hard that or if that will open the flood gates for him to start dinking with crap. He is unlimited time and money. I have neither. He has minimum visitation and can only get more. I know he wants more control/power in this situation.

HEY! These are your kids. I hope they are worth fighting for. Not to mention you might sleep better. (is there anyone here that gets too much sleep?) Sounds like this guy is a jerk. I say call your lawyer and let him get what's coming. That's what the courts are for. To protect you...right?

[yarngoddess]

So sorry you have to deal with this Hang in there mama! Sounds like you've got some awesome kids that you have raised-great job!